BLS Collections re: No reply to CCA request

[diddydicky]

most legislation is not retrospective

[payback68]

Lloyds were unable to provide the credit agreement, in fact they stated that they should not have to keep such records as the account was over twelve years old!

 

Comical, regardless of whether they think they do not have to keep records of the account as its 12 years old, they are still stating that the account is "OPEN" so therefore they ARE required to keep paperwork, agreements ETC. It would be a different matter if they declared the account is "CLOSED" as they are only required to keep details for a six year period after the account has been declared "CLOSED". These Banks/DCA's do try it on!. Log a formal complaint with Consumer Direct and have it passed over to Trading Standards as i would imagine it violates CPUTR 2008 also.

 

PB68.

[Helmetfire]

Thank you all:-)

[Sand-Dancer0191]

Since you have by your own admittance declared that you do not hold sufficient records to prove whether the original agreement even exists I must draw your attention to the Information Commisioners guidance on the filing of defaults with the credit reference agencies:

"Accuracy of a lender’s default records

39 Records

Any default record should be accurate. We normally expect a lender to keep records that are necessary to show an agreement exists and to support filing a default. We would also expect a lender to be able to produce evidence to justify a default record they had placed on a credit reference file. Not having any supporting records may indicate a breach of the data protection principle requiring personal data to be adequate, relevant and not excessive for the purpose for which it is processed."

It is my opinion that in the (admitted) absence of any supporting records as defined by the ICO, your company stands in breach of the DPA 1998 and I require any adverse records published by your company to be removed forthwith until such time as you can meet the above criteria.

[Helmetfire]

I posted this on 10th January:

 

Lloyds TSB/Westcot. Your advice would be greatly appreciated

I would greatly appreciate your help with this matter....Here goes....I made a CCA request to Lloyds TSB regarding an old credit card account that I had been paying small amounts towards. I could no longer afford to pay even the small amount and then I found CAG and got wise. Lloyds were unable to provide the credit agreement, in fact they stated that they should not have to keep such records as the account was over twelve years old!

 

Lloyds continued to try to collect despite this and in the intervening period they have passed it to four different collection agencies and I have made complaints to the Financial Ombudsman and the Information commissioners office (for failure to comply with SAR) and I have not paid them a penny since.

 

I saw off the last DCA in November 2009 and then just before Christmas I got a Final Notice letter from none other than Westcot. I of course sent them the standard "Account in Dispute" letter thinking that this would do the trick as it had done with all the others. They replied that they would contact their client and get back to me....which they did and stated that their client had no record of the account being in dispute!

 

Now somebody is telling porkies because I have several hundred pages of correspondence with Lloyds and their various DCA's and I still do not have a Credit Agreement....I am kind of stumped as to what to do next as it sounds like Westcot are just going to ignore anything I say regarding the dispute. I am not sure whether they are just trying to wind me up or if this is a precursor to them starting to get nasty.

 

Should I write back giving evidence of the dispute (letters etc.)? Or should I do something else...If so what? I really am starting to get worried about this now as my partner is off work following an op and we are really struggling at the moment so any advice would be hugely appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

....Thank you for your replies....I sent formal complaint letters to both Lloyds and Westcot reminding them of their obligations and pointing them towards the OFT guidelines on Debt collection:-)

 

Today I got a reply from Lloyds stating they have had a high volume of requests for CCA's and would be responding to my request shortly....funny that, they told me in 2008 that they no longer have it!. Then they tell me that some chap called Ray Watson from the OFT has apparently issued a press release stating "Consumers have a right to information on debts they owe, but it is important that they realise that these sections of the Act cannot be used to write of legitimately owed debts"....which is also funny because that's what I thought they were being used to do thanks to the banks apparent laxity of supplying CCA's when requested:madgrin:

 

The letter then goes on to tell me "your agreement may be temporarily unenforceable. However this means that the Bank would be unable to enforce a court judgement to oblige you to repay your debt. It does not affect your legal obligation to make payments as required by your agreement."....surely if they do not have an agreement, and as they state it cannot be enforced then I do not have any legal obligation to repay it?

 

They seem to think that this information is an acceptable response to my formal complaint (which was that they were continuing to pass the account to outside DCA's despite it still being in default of my CCA request)......so does anyone have any ideas as to what to do next?

 

I assume that they are proposing to continue to allow Westcot to harrass me as they seem to think that they don't have to follow the OFT's quidelines....even though they seem to think that I should pay attention to what a certain Ray Watson has to say:roll:

[FORMISTER]

Hi, the debt still legally exists and you still owe it. However without an enforcable agreement their is nothing they can do about it other than just ask for it. So they are right in you still legally owe it and should pay, but they can't make you! They can still report to the CRA's.

Date:

 

Try this letter from the CAG library if you haven't already. Adapt and change if needed

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated XXXXX

 

This account is in dispute with **original creditor/DCA** and has been since DATE .

Not only is this a breach of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Trading's debt collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My previous dispute from **DATE** has NOT been answered.

 

As **original creditor/name of debt collection agency** are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act agreementrequest and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the **original creditor/DCA** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as **New DCA** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If **New DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Tradings Collection Guidelines

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[FORMISTER]

As you CCA'd them before and they didn't come up with an agreement then it's unlikely that they will now. So there is absolutely nothing they can do to enforce this in court, so I wouldn't worry about them. They can send as many letters and charges as they want, it won't do them any good what so ever.

 

It's worth noting however that not making payments will still affect your credit report until it drops off after 6 years.

[Helmetfire]

Thanks....I should point out that this account it about 15 years old and I was paying what small amount I could afford for about 8 years! It was only when I was no longer able to afford to pay that I discovered CAG and went down the CCA route....They have had more money from me towards this account than they would ever have got by selling it on so I don't feel morally obliged to them at all, I realise that I am legally obliged to repay the debt...but they are legally obliged to proved me with the CCA and they have not done so. I am not a "won't pay" I am a "can't pay".

 

eta: The account has long since fallen off of my credit reference, and I think I am right in saying that they can't default me again unless they provide the necessary documentation:?: Not that I'm bothered I don't want any credit anyway:roll: