BLS Collections re: No reply to CCA request

[Helmetfire]

I sent a CCA request last week (11th) by recorded delivery to BLS at their P.O. Box Oxford address....so far it has not been signed for. Is this common? Is there another address I should send it to or has the fact that I have sent it enough?

[Tecnobaz]

Very common, I've had the same problems to.

 

BLS Collections (LTSB) direct address not PO BOX This might be useful to a few people around here. Letters are very untraceable in my experience if sent to their PO BOX so send direct.

 

Thank you for your enquiry, regarding BLS Collections.

I have been looking into this for you.

As far as I can ascertain, BLS Collections is part of Lloyds TSB plc.

The main address for the section dealing with debt recovery is:

Consumer Debt Recovery Team

Lloyds TSB plc

Queens Road Quadrant

Brighton BN1 3XJ

BLS Collections have confirmed to me that they deal with debt recovery issues, on behalf of Lloyds TSB plc. They informed me that any request sent to BLS Collections, PO Box 467E, Oxford, OX4 1WA, is forwarded to the Consumer Debt Recovery team.

However, if you want copies of any of the Consumer Credit Agreements, then I suggest you need to write to directly to the Consumer Debt Recovery team at the address I have given above. I suggest you use the recorded delivery service of Royal Mail and make sure you enclosed the required £1 fee.

They will have 12 working days (a working week is counted as five days - Monday to Friday), from when they receive the written request, to reply with the required documents. The creditor must not take more that 30 days to comply.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/133283-ts-dont-do-what.html

[Helmetfire]

So should I send another request to the Brighton address....I read on another post that somebody sent a request it was never signed for but when they phoned to follow it up BLS said they had recieved it:confused:

 

Not sure what to do for the best.

[Tecnobaz]

I have kept my proof of postage and lucky for me I have proof that the postal order that was sent with my request has been cashed. LTSB (BLS) have sent my debts out to other agents but after a letter or two they soon get sent back for the CCA request to be completed. Right now things are very quiet.

 

Some on here would say as long as you can prove its been sent and they got the request do nothing more, wait and see but others will advise you start again with your CCA directly with LTSB.

 

Barry

[Patma]

Hi Helmetfire,

I've had the same problem with BLS and currently have a complaint to Royal Mail ongoing because the PO Box address given by BLS isn't a genuine PO Box number and the postcode doesn't exist. Despite that, there is or was a redirection in place which forwards mail on to LTSB.

Royal Mail have assured me that they will sort this problem out and that their fraud team are investigating how a redirection could be happening from a false address (APPARENTLY THIS IS VERY MUCH AGAINST THEIR RULES). Obviously they still haven't stopped this from going on so I think it's time to get onto them again.

I should give Royal Mail complaints department a ring. the more people complain the sooner they'll get on with doing their job properly hopefully.Good luck.

Patma

[rudy1]

hi, i know someone who works in the same building for lloyds tsb. bls and scm solicitors are basically employees of lloyds tsb, she told me its basically a fake dca and solicitors, they are based on queens road in brighton and from what she says a bunch of 18 year muppets working on a factory line. Hope this helps or makes you feel better. (been asking her lots of questions as have a dca making my life a misery, when she tells me stuff about the set up, makes me feel much better.

[Helmetfire]

I CCA'ed BLs/TSB on 10th March this year....and reminded them on 1st May (formal complaint made)....they have sent me nothing...until today:

 

Thank you for your letter...regrettably, despite endeavouring to do so, our client is unable to provide a copy of the original application document because of the amount of time that has elapsed since inception of this account. Whilst the bank is obliged to hold application documents for a reasonable period of time, it would not be realistic to have retained these since your account was opened some eight years ago (actually I defaulted on it 8 years ago) (the retention period is 6 years). The onus is on the customer to keep copies of such documents.

 

Since the account was closed and referred for recovery action in 2000, no dispute has been received, nor interest and charges applied. We would advise that the debt is enforcable as you have made regular payments to the account, thereby acknowledging that the balance is due and payable.

 

Unless we hear from you with further details in respect of your dispute, our normal recovery action will continue.

 

Okay....so it is alright if it take three months to think of a reply then?

 

Anybody got any good ideas for a suitable letter to send these idiots?

 

I will be reporting them to the FOS along with BOS on 1st July as this is when they will have had 8 weeks from my formal complaint.

 

Should I bother to SAR them to see if there are any charges that should not be there or it is too late? If they haven't got the CCA then I don't suppose they will have anything else will they?

[Pinky69]

Their usual bluff. There is no agreement so the debt is unenforceable and you don't have to pay them another penny. All that about "You've paid so that proves the debt is yours" is just chancing their arm. Write and tell them that since there is no agreeement, that renders the debt unenforceable in law and as far as you are concerned, the matter is now closed. That won't stop them pursuing you but they will of course be breaking the law in doing so and that's more evidence for your complaint to FOS. Well done!:grin:

[Helmetfire]

Does anyone know where I would find a suitable worded letter? I can probably cobble something together but so many people on here are so much better at it than me:wink:

[42man]

As Pinky says it's hardly your fault they don't have the agreement any more...(NOT YOUR PROBLEM !!).....i'd say it's bad luck for them, they might try and take you to court but while the debt is in dispute, and they have no agreement then they are stuffed....

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days your client commits a summary criminal offence.

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

 

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[42man]

Or possibly this one...

 

Account In Dispute

Letter Before Action

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I refer to my recent correspondence with your company concerning this alleged debt, copies of which are enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

As **DCA** have failed to comply with my Consumer Credit Act request and admitted that the alleged signed executed agreement is unavailable, enforcement action is impossible under section 127 (3) of the Act.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, Your company commit an offence. These time limits expired on XXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXX respectively.

 

As you are no doubt aware subsection (6) states:

 

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore as at XXXXXXXX this account became unenforceable at law and it is now my intention to refer this matter to the enforcement authorities.

 

If **DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

It is also my belief that your continued pursuance of this matter also constitutes an

offence under Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

Failure to respond favourably to this letter within fourteen (14) days of receipt will result in immediate litigation being commenced against your company without further notice.

I also require a copy of your internal complaints procedure as further action may be necessary.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours Faithfully

[Helmetfire]

This morning I received a "Final Response" from LloydsTSB with regards to my CCA request.

 

They don't have it and don't believe that they should be expected to keep this paperwork for 12 years....even though they manage to keep a records of exactly how many repayments I have made to them:p...their response is basically that as I have made repayments for the last 8 years they can continue to pursue me for the alleged debt even though they have absolutely no CCA.

 

I am assuming this is just standard flannel and that my next move should probably be a complaint to the FOS (they kindly enclosed a leaflet about the FOS with their letter so I am thinking that this is what they want me to do and is also the reason that they worded their response in the way that they did...it was more for the FOS than for me)

 

Not sure really what to expect from here on except that having been bouyed up by two DCA's backing off after admitting no CCA that I am in a pretty good position to just stick to my guns and see what they do next?

[stikky62]

Stick to your guns,,,,,make the complaints ( I.C.O, OFT, FOS, TS),,,and dare them to take you to court with no CCA

Edited July 12, 2008 by stikky62

[IdaInFife]

DCA: Non-Compliance of CCA Request - Consumer Wiki

 

This may help

 

 

Idax

[Helmetfire]

Thanks Stikky and Ida....I have pretty much already sent them that letter, or a version of such....I might just send it again to annoy them a bit;)

 

Better get my complaint together for FOS...anyone who has any tips or advice regarding dealing with LloydsTSB I would be most grateful to hear from you:)

[Helmetfire]

I could do with some sage advice re Lloyds TSB and Apex. Background is that the credit card was defaulted 10 years ago I paid token amounts to BLS up until I found CAG last year when I CCA'd them. Lloyds have not got the CCA they have admitted as much in their final response to my complaint they farmed it out to one DCA and I sent the bemused letter to them and they haven't been back in touch (this was last summer).

 

I made complaint to FOS last year and have recently been informed that complaint will not be upheld (there's a surprise) Almost as soon as I heard from FOS I was contacted by another DCA on behalf of Lloyds, sent them the bemused letter a few weeks back but today I got a letter from them saying that they were preparing to issue a county court claim. I am fairly sure that it is just another threatogram because if Lloyds were serious about taking me to court surely they wouldn't bother to farm it out to a DCA?

 

I am also assuming that if the worst came to the worst that this DCA would have to provide a letter of assignment if they wanted to pursue it to court, just a letter saying that they are acting on behalf of Lloyds would not be enough? I'm afraid I don't know what a proper letter of assignment looks like.

 

Should I just sit and wait to see what they do next or should I send them something to ask if they have the legal right to pursue me in court? Should I also point out that as Lloyds have failed to produce a CCA that they have no right to pursue me as Lloyds have contravened the Data Protection Act by passing on my info to them?

 

Any advice most appreciated.

[dx100uk]

yep

ignore them, just another threat-o-gram.

 

dx

[Helmetfire]

Thanks...I wasn't sure, Lloyds TSB seem to be a tough nut to crack:(

[spidey41]

i had exactly the same situation as you , went through fos over lloyds tsb , apex appeared on the scene , and fos took lloyds tsb's side , i am now paying 10.00 per month to apex , lloyds sent me blank statements as my sar and fos still took there side , unbelievable

[cymruambyth]

Hi, have you sent them a SAR? BLS said that they didn't keep paperwork.........then for 1 loan supplied agreement and an application/agreement form (which I haven't checked out yet) so take care.

[Helmetfire]

Thanks....I might just do that.

[Helmetfire]

I would greatly appreciate your help with this matter....Here goes....I made a CCA request to Lloyds TSB regarding an old credit card account that I had been paying small amounts towards. I could no longer afford to pay even the small amount and then I found CAG and got wise. Lloyds were unable to provide the credit agreement, in fact they stated that they should not have to keep such records as the account was over twelve years old!

 

Lloyds continued to try to collect despite this and in the intervening period they have passed it to four different collection agencies and I have made complaints to the Financial Ombudsman and the Information commissioners office (for failure to comply with SAR) and I have not paid them a penny since.

 

I saw off the last DCA in November 2009 and then just before Christmas I got a Final Notice letter from none other than Westcot. I of course sent them the standard "Account in Dispute" letter thinking that this would do the trick as it had done with all the others. They replied that they would contact their client and get back to me....which they did and stated that their client had no record of the account being in dispute!

 

Now somebody is telling porkies because I have several hundred pages of correspondence with Lloyds and their various DCA's and I still do not have a Credit Agreement....I am kind of stumped as to what to do next as it sounds like Westcot are just going to ignore anything I say regarding the dispute. I am not sure whether they are just trying to wind me up or if this is a precursor to them starting to get nasty.

 

Should I write back giving evidence of the dispute (letters etc.)? Or should I do something else...If so what? I really am starting to get worried about this now as my partner is off work following an op and we are really struggling at the moment so any advice would be hugely appreciated.

 

Thanks

[Helmetfire]

Anybody?

[silverfox1961]

I think a formal complaint (and head your letter as such) to Lloyds for giving out incorrect info and a letter to Wescot to back the hell off until your complaint with lloyds is resolved. This could take ages

[firstship]

Hi...Helmetfire...............Have the same problem with Westcot and Halifax,have posted the thread,...............got a good reply,write to Westcot and ask them to produce the agreement that their client states exists...................it also produced another question when an account has been in dispute for 15months to 2 years or more does current legislation apply or does the legislation in force at the time the account went in to dispute apply,at the moment it would appear nobody is quiet sure......................FS