Welcome Finance - car woes

[gkmotorsport]

Hi,

 

My partner recently got a car through Welcome Car Credit, and has had no end of trouble. Her story is below - it's a big read, but is worth it, even if only for shock value

 

08.01.2008 Purchased car.

 

12.01.2008. Took car in for MOT. Made them aware I had noticed something wrong with the clutch. Was just told I was driving wrong, if it continued to take it to the dealer.

 

14.01.2008. Battery went dead. Nothing was left on in the car (though the dealer suggested I had) Spent most of 15th arranging for it to be picked up by the garage despite it being 5 minutes round the corner from them.

 

15.01.2008. Requested they look into the clutch while they had access to the car. When my mum went to pick the car up because I was at work, it became apparent they had not checked the clutch and my mum experienced the same issues as myself.

 

19.01.2008. Took the car back to have clutch looked at. Was told all the issues were down to a small loose bracket. I was informed that it would not get worse in the near future and would be safe to drive. The head mechanic acknowledged there was a problem and ordered some parts with the intention of arranging a day to bring it back in the week. I was a little unconvinced this would all be down to a bracket.

 

21.01.2008. I This was the first trip I took after the 19th. I work approximately 10 miles from home, so drive in. The car was noticeably worse to drive. I managed to just about get to work, despite the clutch failing completely on a bust road outside a school. A passer-by managed to avert chaos .

 

I contacted the garage immediately; they really didn’t care about my situation and made me feel like I was being petty and greedy in requesting they sort this out. The fact that I didn’t even get a call back until 12pm basically sets the scene for the rest of the week.

 

The car wasn’t picked up until 15.30. The people sent to do so said they couldn’t tow a 4x4 and seemed to expect me to sort it out. They took the keys and I didn’t hear from them for the rest of the day.

 

22.01.2008 Called the garage asking for an update, and was told that the clutch had indeed failed and was to be replaced. He said that the parts were due in later that day and the car would be ready and completed by the 23rd. I phoned a few people to make sure the car could be picked up whilst I was at work.

 

23.01.2008 Heard nothing.

 

24.01.2008. Still no call, even though the car should have been repaired the day before. I ended up calling the garage and being told it should be ready by the end of the day, if not tomorrow morning (25.01.2008)

 

25.01.2008. Still heard nothing, so called the finance company. Told them that I wanted to change the car, and that if it could not be done I wanted to cancel the agreement. I didn’t feel as though it was safe to drive and was angry that I was ignored when I told them about problems. After the promised return call to confirm it was ready did not happen, I called back and found out that it had been made to a completely different person! By this time it was too late to pick the car up, and the dealer was quite rude when I told them it would have to stay there until the following day.

 

26.01.2008. Picked up the car, but the garage had no knowledge of my calls to the finance company.

 

29.01.2008. I was stuck in traffic on a hill, so (naturally) applied the handbrake. The car started rolling back, even though I had pulled the handbrake up fully, which is obviously quite dangerous! I called the garage straight away – they promised to call back ASAP but this did not happen.

 

30.01.2008. As I was at work, my mum contacted the garage and they told her to drop it in when we could. This would have to be the weekend again.

 

01.02.2008. Took the car to the dealer, ended up standing around for an hour. Two different people thought I was looking to buy a car. When I explained what I was there for, they simply walked off looking for a sale, without offering to even point me in the right direction. After I third person asked me to move the car because it was in their way, I ran out of patience and left.

 

03.02.2008. Called the finance company again to explain my frustration. Was advised that the dealership was simply busy that day, and to take it back in the following weekend.

 

09/10.02.2008. Ill over this weekend, so couldn’t take it in.

 

11.02.2008. Took the day off from work to get the car looked at. When I turned up I was told I needed an appointment! Promised a call back.

 

21:00, took the car back to garage as arranged with the mechanic so it could be looked at on 12.02.2008.

 

12.02.2008. Heard nothing.

 

13.02.2008. Heard nothing. Wrote letter to MD of Welcome detailing everything, and asking for car to be exchanged.

 

15.02.2008. Was told to pick the car up as it had been fixed, but with no notice I could not get to the garage that day. Told the sales rep that I wanted some kind of compensation for all the things that keep going wrong. He said they had paid out for the car to be fixed which was ‘more then enough’, but would ask the MD.

 

16.02.2008. Went to pick the car up, and found abuse had been written in the dirt across my doors. The mechanic explained that the pads installed prior to the MOT had not been adjusted, so the car effectively had no rear brakes! He advised that it would take a few days for the pads to bed in. The sales rep explained the MD was not in and he would call me when he had had a chance to speak to him. Not sure how it passed an MOT with no rear brakes…

 

22.02.2008. Had a call from Welcome in response to my letter. He thought it was all sorted because the car was ’fixed’ - obviously he had not been listening. He advised he would need to speak to the dealer, but assured me that I could replace the car.

 

29.02.2008. After a week of no contact, I called Welcome and was told that they were having trouble contacting the MD of the dealer, but would call me back ASAP

 

03.03.2008. After no reply, wrote a second letter stressing my dissatisfaction at the time taken to get back to me. Told them I would be open to exchanging my car with one from a different dealer.

 

10.03.2008. Still no call and no reply to letter. Wrote another one to Welcome’s MD, giving them 7 days to reply else I would cancel my DD and seek legal advice.

 

14.03.2008. Took the opportunity to call them as I had a day off work. Was told they were still waiting on the MD of the dealer to agree to an exchange, despite what I had been told previously. I made it clear that this wasn’t good enough, and that I was the one stuck with an unreliable car that I did not feel safe driving. Was promised a call back.

 

14:00. Got a call back. Was told that I would only be able to exchange the car at the garage. She advised to go and look and see if I could find a replacement.

 

15.03.2008. Went to the garage and found 2 possible replacements. I took them both out; one did not suit my needs and other was in appalling condition. So, even if I could bring myself to have another car form them they don’t even have one for my needs.

 

In the 68 days that I have owned the car, I have only been able to drive it trouble-free for 13. I do not feel that it is safe to drive, as seemingly every time I take it out something goes wrong. It’s taken me over a month to get any kind of resolution attempt from the finance company, and I have wasted 6 Saturdays just trying to get it looked at!

 

The question is, what are her options here? Is she stuck with the car, or is there any cover under the Sale of Goods act, seeing as the car is not of satisfactory quality?

 

Any advice greatly appreciated!

[Conniff]

No - you are definately not stuck with the car. Welcome are as liable for the condition and your satisfaction as are the dealer.

 

If you like this car, and the problems are all that you have against it, then write a to the dealer 'and' the finance company. Remind Welcome that they are jointly and severally responsible for the car not being of merchantable quality and that you will be taking it to makers franchise for repair and they will be billed.

 

I think the dealer has had enough chances to repair this.

[gkmotorsport]

Thanks for the reply. Taking advice on another forum (specific to car finance problems), my partner sent a letter to Welcome advising that she was rejecting the car under the Sale of Goods act, as it was not of satisfactory quality.

 

We sent the letter on the 19th March to them. However, things have taken an interesting (and enormously frustrating) twist. I'm afraid it's another long read, but i do appreciate any input you can give.

 

My partner has received a letter from Welcome in response to her letter on the 13th February(!), which makes no mention to the one sent on the 19th March. In it, they advise that repairs on the car were carried out 'within acceptable timescales of receiving notification of the problems'.

 

They have liaised with 'United Finance Company (the broker)', and the Big Blue Car Company (the garage), and agreed (as a goodwill gesture) to 'to put [her] into a different car of similar value'.

 

They also noted that this was a Final Response, and that any further disagreement should be taken up with the Financial Ombudsman.

 

Problem solved, you may think. However, she had already visited BBCC and found that none of the cars were suitable. Yesterday (which continued into today), she tried to contact the person who sent the letter to ask to a) reduce the price of a suitable car slightly, b) increase the amount of the loan to cover the price of said suitable car, c) allow her to move to a different garage, or d) continue with rejecting the car.

 

After 14 calls to her department, and being given a myriad of excuses (she was in meetings, at lunch, and on the phone), being refused escalation to her manager (who doesn't work Wednesdays), she called back. She told her the following:

 

- The price of a car could not be reduced at all, but she would have to ask BBCC in any case.

- A second loan application would have to be made to increase the loan.

- She could not look at alternative garages because 'the agreement is specifically with BBCC'.

 

To add insult to injury, she was also told that any car that she exchanged hers with has to be exactly the same price as the current one - completely contradicting her own letter!

 

She then phoned BBCC to see if they could do anything about the price of the car. They advised her (rightly, i would imagine) that she had to take that up with Welcome.

 

So, we've come home and i've asked her (preparing to write another letter to them) for everything she has from Welcome. She has:

 

- A pre-contract agreement, which she was sent by them. Appears to be incomplete.

- The 'Welcome to Welcome' pack, which contains a copy of the signed agreement. However, this is incomplete and (on more than one page) virtually illegible.

 

I'm now a bit concerned that she hasn't even been sent a full copy of the credit agreement, and that the woman seems to be quoting terms that i can't see on it (or even the pre-contract). Also, there now seems to be a third party (United Finance) involved, who she had no idea about, and who aren't mentioned anywhere on the partial agreement - where do they even fit in!?

[Conniff]

I think you should go back on your original action and take the car in and reject it as not of merchantable quality.

 

Used cars are subject to the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and attention is specifically drawn to the conditions of merchantable quality and fitness for purpose contained in this Act.

 

"The pads have to bed in" what rubbish, yes they do, but that does not mean the brakes will not work until they have bedded in, if it did, every new car on the road would have inefectual brakes.

 

How was the car described in the advertisment?

[gkmotorsport]

*bump*

 

Just another quick update - my partner has managed to find a replacement car that suits her needs, but now Welcome are baulking because the car would be older than 10 years at the end of the agreement and therefore doesn't meet their terms. When asked why this term isn't stated or implied on the agreement, they informed us that it is an 'internal policy' - surely such policies have to be on the agreement?

 

Anyway, the stupid thing is that the car was registered on the 29th January 2001. The agreement started on the 4th Jan this year, so (assuming the original agreement remains in place) the car would actually be just under 10 years old. However, Welcome are now saying that they would have to treat it as a new agreement (because their 'systems' won't let them amend the existing one), and that they would only let her have this car if the term was reduced to 30 months from 36 - this increases the monthly payments by too much.

 

They have also replied to the rejection letter saying that she does not have a right to reject the car as it is 'of satisfactory quality

given the age and mileage', and that their offer of a replacement is purely a goodwill gesture.

 

Any advice greatly appreciated!

[gkmotorsport]

Hi all,

 

Bit of a gap from the last post, but several things have happened since then. Just for a quick catch-up:

 

- The dealer 'withdrew' their offer to replace the car because we 'messed them around'. In other words, it took Welcome 2 weeks to get in touch with them to swap the finance over, despite us chasing them.

- Welcome insist that they will no longer replace the car. They are now saying that the dealer made the offer and that, because the dealer chose to withdraw the offer, they are powerless to do anything.

- They initially offered to pay for any repairs needed if we took it back to the dealer to be inspected. Bearing in mind that the dealer's ineptitude is half the reason we are in this situation, this was not taken up.

- They then changed their minds and agreed to let us take the car wherever we wanted, and that if any problems were found they 'may' pay for it. They did not explain why the offer to fix things had now become a 'may' rather than a 'would'.

 

At this point, my partner wrote a 16 point letter to them, asking why they keep changing their tune every time she writes to them, and why they can't just replace the car as they originally offered to. We are now expecting a baby (she is 7 months pregnant - that's how long we have been arguing with them!) and we do not need the stress, neither financial nor emotional. Andrew replied with an equally long letter, explaining thay they aren't apparently liable for anything that they have offered, and that he suspects the real reason for the complaint (and the refusal of my partner to pay, which they have still not questioned) is that she cannot afford it.

 

Interestingly, he touched upon the terms and conditions - you may recall that in our earlier letters and calls to them, they sent a 'complete' set of Ts and Cs that was just the signed page of the credit agreement. This time, he sent us a copy with a couple of extra pages, which we haven't seen before. Why were these not included before, i wonder? They still don't mention some of the more obtuse 'terms' that they have relied upon in previous letters.

 

In any case, the problem has now become more serious. Although it has barely been used in the time we have had it, on a drive this morning the gearbox packed up - i suspect it is the gear linkage. We told them two months ago that it was still playing up, and they declined to comment on it.

 

Where do we stand with this? It feels as though they are being deliberately obstructive whenever we raise a legitimate point. I also worry that they are hiding information, such as the extra pages of the agreement that didn't exist before.

 

Any ideas?

[gkmotorsport]

Just to update my previous update (!), we had an interesting development yesterday. My partner phoned Andrew at Welcome and explained the situation, and he refused to help in any way. The best she could get out of him was that he would look into the situation if she put it in writing, and that he couldn't remember what he said in his last letter as he'd been off ill for a couple of weeks...

 

Anyway, her mum (because she was in quite a state at this point) went to the car dealer to complain, as she had paid for a warranty when taking out the finance and never received any details of it. They were able, within 5 minutes, to dig out the warranty, which covers every single issue she has had with the car since day 1.

 

Not surprising, we are a little annoyed at Welcome again. During all of our correspondence with them, they have never mentioned the warranty. She has never seen the details until today, and when the car was repaired by the dealer earlier in the year, it was offered as a gesture of goodwill. How could they possibly have failed to send the warranty details to her, and how could they apparently not even realise she had one?

[raydetinu]

probably because warranties are usually not worth the paper they are printed on!

[ReasonableRon]

Who provided the warranty, the dealer or welcome?

[postggj]

yours is a typical story

 

most cars the like welcome sell come straight from auction.

the reason they are at an auction is they are full of faults and cost to much to repair.

welcome buy the car for peanuts and sell well above retail cost.

 

also the other 50% OF CARS ARE WHAT HAVE BEEN REPO

from exsisting welcome clients

 

did they flog you, i mean welcome an extended warrinty,

 

and yes, they are not worth the paper printed on.

there excuse for not paying out

general ware and tear

[ReasonableRon]

postggj I think you might have dived in head first with that post.

 

Post #3 seems to state that the OP bought a car from an independant garage and was therefore not supplied by Welcome.

 

This is why I asked my previous question about the warranty. If the warranty was the garages own and sold by them then it is likely that Welcome did not know anything about it.

 

I'm also not sure about your claim that cars are only at auctions because they are full of faults............most cars sold by used car dealers come from auctions. That is where fleets generally go to dispose of their vehicles - most of which have been fully maintained and have very little wrong with them.

[postggj]

good point

 

me thinks i need glasses