Being chased in Australia

[sequenci]

and how many cases to date?

 

i know personally of more than a 'handful', you would be surprised how easy it would be to enforce a UK judgment overseas. I'm not for a minute saying it will happen in this scenario but I would sooner paint a realistic picture.

 

There isn't a single legimate way that someone can not be traced to another country without lies, breach or blagging and with inside knowledge of this industry i should know

 

this is really interesting, can you quantify?

[moneycheatingexpert]

i know personally of more than a 'handful', you would be surprised how easy it would be to enforce a UK judgment overseas. I'm not for a minute saying it will happen in this scenario but I would sooner paint a realistic picture.

 

I'd be really interested for you to name names and I'm sure everbody else on here would as well.

 

 

this is really interesting, can you quantify?

 

No but I can explain.

 

You move abroad you tell your mum, the utilities people and your bank. So you forget to tell the poor old DCA hey it happens you have so many things to remember tooth brush, suitcase, new job.....

 

What exactly is Mr. DCA going to do when all his mail comes back 'not known at etc' unlease the tracer, thats what.

 

First he calls your mum claiming to be from Euro parcels with some story about a parcel, blah, blah needs to be signed for etc.

 

wait for it...where can we deliver it to...just one second your mum says let me find the address, totally taken in especially as she as phoned the number back and someone has answered the phone hello 'euro parcels'

 

Then he phone's the utilites with a demand for where is my bill, what are you doing, why have i not received it and .... where did you send my bill to then?

 

There is little point in writing the entire script and how to bypass security just isn't worth it to see it replaced with a pink coloured EDIT, do a search under google for 'blaggers handbook'

 

it won't get you a copy of the manual for that you need to have an industry insider, what it does is illustrate how these tactics are still being used today.

 

Thanks to the amended Data Protection laws (also know as the debtors charter, because of the level of protection it gives them) the only way to legimately trace someone abroad is to ring someone who knows where he or she has gone and say 'Hi i'm calling from DCA I wonder if you would'nt mind telling me where they have gone... lets all guess the reply

 

moneycheatingexpert

[sequenci]

I'd be really interested for you to name names and I'm sure everbody else on here would as well.

 

name names of whom? my clients in my day job? i'm not allowed, data protection act and all that.

 

You move abroad you tell your mum, the utilities people and your bank. So you forget to tell the poor old DCA hey it happens you have so many things to remember tooth brush, suitcase, new job.....

 

What exactly is Mr. DCA going to do when all his mail comes back 'not known at etc' unlease the tracer, thats what.

 

First he calls your mum claiming to be from Euro parcels with some story about a parcel, blah, blah needs to be signed for etc.

 

wait for it...where can we delivery it to...just one second your mum says let me find the address, totally taken in especially as she as phoned the number back and someone has answered the phone hello 'euro parcels'

 

Then he phone's the utilites with a demand for where is my bill, what are you doing, why have i not received it and .... where did you send my bill to then?

 

There is little point in writing the entire script and how to bypass security just isn't worth it to see it replaced with a pink coloured EDIT, do a search under google for 'blaggers handbook'

 

it won't get you a copy of the manual for that you need to have an industry insider, what it does is illustrate how these tactics are still being used today.

 

Thanks to the amended Data Protection laws (also know as the debtors charter, because of the level of protection it gives them) the only way to legimately trace someone abroad is to ring someone who knows where he or she has gone and say 'Hi i'm calling from DCA I wonder if you would'nt mind telling me where they have gone... lets all guess the reply

 

moneycheatingexpert

 

Don't you have lots of savage paperwork to complete for an australian visa? how do you bypass all that sort of thing? Surely that will create a footprint? I'm pretty ignorant of this sort of thing admittedly.

 

I'll also wish to state that CAG never has and never will advocate debt evasion.

[moneycheatingexpert]

A data protected one yeh

 

moneycheatingexpert

[radiobirdman]

sequenci vbmenu_register("postmenu_1503704", true); I dont know why you believe its easy to enforce a uk judgement overseas, again. if this was the case dont you think there would be some people on a popular site like this with the problem?

 

Its not easy, infact its very hard and very expensive. at the end of the day these credit agreements where made in another country under different laws and cannot be enforced in australia.

 

wont stop them trying it on if they know where you are.

 

I know of two people who where chased in Aus (they only found them as they told the dca where they where moving). in the end they asked the dca to take them to court in australia, it never happend, its a bluff.

[moneycheatingexpert]

I think this thread has run its course and the conclusion is simple.

 

If you want to start a new life in another country and leave your troubles behind...

 

YOU CAN

 

...With no risk of being CCJ'd or hauled into a payment plan.

 

And unless someone provides us with an actual case that suggests otherwise its a conclusive (bearing in mind this is public information, so easily verifiable)

 

So you can run and you can hide

 

moneycheatingexpert:cool:

[sequenci]

I dont know why you believe its easy to enforce a uk judgement overseas, again. if this was the case dont you think there would be some people on a popular site like this with the problem?

 

Because I work in the industry and work with debtors, creditors, the courts and the insolvency service on a daily basis, my organisation also work as advisers to the likes of The OFT and The Government as a whole. Without blowing my own trumpet I have a lot of experience dealing with people in debt, I would imagine I devote about 60-70 hours a week on doing this! YOu would be amazed at some of the stories I've heard and some of the things creditors have done.

 

I appreciate that it might prove costly to enforce a UK judgment overseas but to say it simply doesn't happen may be a little misleading.

 

I've helped people on this very site with problems of this nature historically although admittedly not that often. I think its important to advise CAG members of all possible outcomes and to not guarantee that something will not happen. The key here is to give genuine, impartial, holistic advice and allow the OP to arrive at their own decision on what to do about their own situation.

[sequenci]

 

...With no risk of being CCJ'd or hauled into a payment plan.

 

 

A county court claim can have valid service at a last known address.

[BaldyBaldwin]

would it not be a good idea to register with CRA like experian to see what the state of play is, there might not even be a CCJ against you, and it only costs about 7 quid

[sequenci]

would it not be a good idea to register with CRA like experian to see what the state of play is, there might not even be a CCJ against you, and it only costs about 7 quid

 

That is likely to draw the creditors' attention to your whereabouts. This is due to the fact that they share info via their 'Gone Away Information Network' [GAIN]. One should always apply for their report with apprehension.

[moneycheatingexpert]

Or apply for a credit report without raising GAIN.

 

and before you ask yes it is possible and no I won't, at least not today.

 

moneycheatingexpert

[Oliver1975]

I strongly suggest you pay what's being demanded (particulary as you can afford it) because if they do take action in the OZ Courts & I'm not entirely sure, but I think it will almost certainly affect your application for permanent residency.

 

Just a thought but rather than pay the full amount & as you have the money make them an offer & see what happens

 

As they say 'a bird in the hand' etc

 

I haven't read all the way down the page yet, so somebody might have already mentioned this, but only 'debts to the Australian government' will affect a visa application. They don't care about debts in other countries, and even if you do have a debt to the government, they will still let you in as long as you have made an arrangement to start paying it back. They care more about criminal records and diseases such as TB.

[NZGirl]

what he is talking about is not setup to chase credit card debts but to enforce larger corporate debts, fraud etc.

 

I would like to see a example if it has happend. just one. it does not happen to australians living in the uk with debts or brits in aus with debts, it is just to difficult to enforce and to expensive and for what? it just failing at the end of the debtor just up and leaving again to return home.

 

again as stated above. there are thousands of people going from both countries every year. there would be more (or even just one) example of it happening on this site atleast. but there are none.

 

Radiobirdman, could I ask you to have a look at my thread and tell me what you think?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/147362-confused-overseas-where-do-new-post.html

[gratas]

For the record Im Australian.. with UK debt

 

I was given the scare mungering "what if" outrageous statements about moving BACK to Australia WITH UK debt hanging over me (and Im not talking about absconding without a trace)

 

I was told by someone at the countries largest Debt helpline charity that "they might not let you in"..

 

Well when you are stressed out and upset about finding your family up to your eyeballs in debt and your parents have bought you a ticket "home" the last thing you need to hear is some numpty making outrageous statements.

 

In a panic I rang the Australian High Commission in London and they put me straight immediately.. Australian passport holders will NOT be refused entry for UK debt or bankruptcy issues.. they said "none of our business". (debtline knew we were Oz citizens and UK citzens)

 

Also CCJs are County Court and thus CIVIL court matters and NOT enforcible in Australia ONLY Crown Court issues are!

 

Debts for small consumers like me (ie non business and accumulated debt made up of 11 credits rather than owing one big fish) wouldnt be worth the expense to each individual Financial Institutes OR uk debt collection agents they might to try and sell on or to an Oz collection agency (including passing it to an Australian office) as the laws in Oz are just as difficult in fact MORE so for them to collect. Their statutes of limitation regards to contacting people for debt collecting are strict and difficult.

 

Oz might be the "lucky country" but there are just as many people facing exactly the same kinds of debt issues as in the UK (a lot of our debt problems were kicked off by the fact we emigrated 11yrs ago to the UK paying off tax and student loans so got in UK debt to restart life)

 

We can go on and on about how companies use blagging and other underhand ways of communication or to "find you" but at the end of the day the Laws are in place to protect people from this.

 

My final decisions have been based on sources in both the UK and Australia including people in business in Australia who know the laws.

 

There is no need to hide from debt just let the laws in place protect you from unlawful demands. If you can pay off your debt you would.. if you cant and have made reasonable effort to do so then why let people bully you into getting blood out of a stone!

 

Personally all mine will have a PO Box to write to and they know that is all they will get. We wont have phones and only best friends have any other contact details and all are in full knowledge about why we are going back

 

Yes on here we might have to give a balanced "ever so British politically correct" debate on all issues on this forum but NOT one that is forgetting what we are on this site about.. empowering people to deal with debt fairly and within the law.

 

If a company refuse a full and final payment offer and decide to sell the debt on.. let them.. just try and let it go to court. Australian courts would laugh them out of the chambers! Once I got sound advice I felt so much stronger to give my family a better future.

 

Debt is not about moral or ethical issues nor about emotional angst but about business agreements that have come to an early end for a variety of individual reason and thus should be treated at face value.. - within the law!

 

Just look at all the high profile business men hiding out in other countries etc with UK and Australian debt galore but untouchable due to the very fact that once they leave too bad!

 

Extradition and enforcements ONLY apply to fraud and other Criminal offences.. and its NOT a crime to be in Debt!

 

I feel lucky I have the choice and chance to deal with my debts in an empowered way with the added benefit of distance as If I had to stay in the UK we would have to file bankruptcy (at a cost to ourselves) and the out come would be still the same.. No Assets to sell equals debts written off. So eventually its in their best interest to settle with us as no UK company will try and make us bankrupt either.. it would cost more than the individual debts and after we hand our house back to the bank there are no assets.

 

I am lucky actually; by having a chance to go back to Oz we can improve our finances with the support of our families, a more stable economy, a nice lifestyle (and believe it or not a higher wage for my husband!!)

 

Just my humble opinion from an Oz in the UK about to go home with a combined outstanding debt of £72K!

[huggy41]

GRATAS good luck with your new life and brighter future.

[gratas]

Thanks Huggy.. i cant wait.. just 3 sleeps before we hand our house back to Halifax (though solicitors work will take longer we believe) but we fly to oz Sunday.. cant wait!

[sequenci]

Also CCJs are County Court and thus CIVIL court matters and NOT enforcible in Australia ONLY Crown Court issues are!

 

Does the Foreign Judgments (Reciprocal Enforcement) Act 1933 not allow an English CCJ to be enforced in Australia?

[JonCris]

Don't forget you already have an Ozzie passport so they can hardly refuse your entry can they debt or no debt

[gratas]

Does the Foreign Judgments (Reciprocal Enforcement) Act 1933 not allow an English CCJ to be enforced in Australia?

 

HI, NO they cant.. CCJ are only civil proceedings within British jurisdiction and they cant even issue a CCJ if you dont have a UK residence at the time.

 

Reciprocal Enforcements only covers Crown issues and Criminal law.. CCJ are NOT criminal proceedings they are civil disputes. You cant go to Jail for a CCJ only a criminal action.

 

 

 

Australia wont get involved and also can not enforce Consumer Finance Agreements made under British Law. (this is stated in another thread)

[gratas]

Don't forget you already have an Ozzie passport so they can hardly refuse your entry can they debt or no debt

 

My friends are got a Oz visa for residency and they are stuck in the UK as their house (which has no equity) wont sell. He has just been made redundent and they just racked up 10k credit to do a 2wk holiday to validate their visa.

 

They have job offers and meet the points criteria but my understanding from their experience and other friends getting visas that your credit rating doesnt out rightly effect your visa and thus a ccj or other preceding doesnt make much difference to the visa being processed - it might impede your ability to raise funds to get there and maintain yourself until you are established which of course is a condition but the actual credit referencing information would not be of enforceable interest to them as its not a crime.

 

So I guess what Im rambling about is that regardless of visa or passport entitlements Debt is about broken agreements involving money and is NOT about crimes being committed thus they dont apply outside the UK who are the only ones that can inforce CCJs (which are really in laymans terms the County courts mediation of agreements. the judge isnt punishing the debtor they are mediating and arranging fair and just agreements).

[Nicoblue]

For the record Im Australian.. with UK debt

 

I was given the scare mungering "what if" outrageous statements about moving BACK to Australia WITH UK debt hanging over me (and Im not talking about absconding without a trace)

 

I was told by someone at the countries largest Debt helpline charity that "they might not let you in"..

 

Well when you are stressed out and upset about finding your family up to your eyeballs in debt and your parents have bought you a ticket "home" the last thing you need to hear is some numpty making outrageous statements.

 

In a panic I rang the Australian High Commission in London and they put me straight immediately.. Australian passport holders will NOT be refused entry for UK debt or bankruptcy issues.. they said "none of our business". (debtline knew we were Oz citizens and UK citzens)

 

Also CCJs are County Court and thus CIVIL court matters and NOT enforcible in Australia ONLY Crown Court issues are!

 

Debts for small consumers like me (ie non business and accumulated debt made up of 11 credits rather than owing one big fish) wouldnt be worth the expense to each individual Financial Institutes OR uk debt collection agents they might to try and sell on or to an Oz collection agency (including passing it to an Australian office) as the laws in Oz are just as difficult in fact MORE so for them to collect. Their statutes of limitation regards to contacting people for debt collecting are strict and difficult.

 

Oz might be the "lucky country" but there are just as many people facing exactly the same kinds of debt issues as in the UK (a lot of our debt problems were kicked off by the fact we emigrated 11yrs ago to the UK paying off tax and student loans so got in UK debt to restart life)

 

We can go on and on about how companies use blagging and other underhand ways of communication or to "find you" but at the end of the day the Laws are in place to protect people from this.

 

My final decisions have been based on sources in both the UK and Australia including people in business in Australia who know the laws.

 

There is no need to hide from debt just let the laws in place protect you from unlawful demands. If you can pay off your debt you would.. if you cant and have made reasonable effort to do so then why let people bully you into getting blood out of a stone!

 

Personally all mine will have a PO Box to write to and they know that is all they will get. We wont have phones and only best friends have any other contact details and all are in full knowledge about why we are going back

 

Yes on here we might have to give a balanced "ever so British politically correct" debate on all issues on this forum but NOT one that is forgetting what we are on this site about.. empowering people to deal with debt fairly and within the law.

 

If a company refuse a full and final payment offer and decide to sell the debt on.. let them.. just try and let it go to court. Australian courts would laugh them out of the chambers! Once I got sound advice I felt so much stronger to give my family a better future.

 

Debt is not about moral or ethical issues nor about emotional angst but about business agreements that have come to an early end for a variety of individual reason and thus should be treated at face value.. - within the law!

 

Just look at all the high profile business men hiding out in other countries etc with UK and Australian debt galore but untouchable due to the very fact that once they leave too bad!

 

Extradition and enforcements ONLY apply to fraud and other Criminal offences.. and its NOT a crime to be in Debt!

 

I feel lucky I have the choice and chance to deal with my debts in an empowered way with the added benefit of distance as If I had to stay in the UK we would have to file bankruptcy (at a cost to ourselves) and the out come would be still the same.. No Assets to sell equals debts written off. So eventually its in their best interest to settle with us as no UK company will try and make us bankrupt either.. it would cost more than the individual debts and after we hand our house back to the bank there are no assets.

 

I am lucky actually; by having a chance to go back to Oz we can improve our finances with the support of our families, a more stable economy, a nice lifestyle (and believe it or not a higher wage for my husband!!)

 

Just my humble opinion from an Oz in the UK about to go home with a combined outstanding debt of £72K!

 

Gratas,

 

My first post - similar situation to you - please pm me with any advise you can !!

 

Many thanks

[sequenci]

Debt is about broken agreements involving money and is NOT about crimes being committed thus they dont apply outside the UK who are the only ones that can inforce CCJs.

 

Why do you think this?

 

You need to read up on The Brussels Regulation and Lugano Convention rules and also the Administration of Justice Act 1920 and the Foreign Judgments (Reciprocal Enforcement) Act 1933 in more detail. Judgments get transfered overseas all the time. It is an expensive process and may not be worthwhile.

[ADE&FAB]

Will watch this one. being chased by CrapOne and Debbie Tass.

 

At CCA stage and they can provide so this gives me hope.

 

I hope from reading that NZ law is close to Aus law in this situation.

 

Anyone know.

[Horrid_Henry_123]

I strongly suggest you pay what's being demanded (particulary as you can afford it) because if they do take action in the OZ Courts & I'm not entirely sure, but I think it will almost certainly affect your application for permanent residency.

 

Just a thought but rather than pay the full amount & as you have the money make them an offer & see what happens

 

As they say 'a bird in the hand' etc

 

Sorry but a civil finance matter would in no way affect PR.

[Psychadelle]

Hi, sorry to jump onto this bandwagon here and I desperately hope that people are still tuned in to this thread! I am a UK citizen but with Australian PR and I've been in Australia for a couple of months. I was made redundant and left England with about £13000 of debt ranging over an overdraft with Lloyds, a Lloyds credit card, Egg credit card and Tesco Loan. I have not been chased yet by anyone but can someone please tell me what I should do if I get a call or letter from a DCA? As far as I'm aware, I had no CCJs when I left the country because I stopped my standing orders and direct debits just before I left. Thank you so so much! I have been suffering from sleepless nights wondering when I'll get caught up and what will happen to me when it does!