Hi

[Durt]

Chris, this pls don't pursue this personally. I think i wil chose to ignore you. I want people to ask me questions about debt recovery, and i want answer the questions. This is not ****ing contest, you probably know more law than me. I am trying to help people. As are you. Stop fighting the good people

[Durt]

ok, sunday, 22.27, iam here. post

[Durt]

Also GM, pls don't be so bitter as to turn this into a slanging match, i want to help people.

[Brassed off]

Also GM, pls don't be so bitter as to turn this into a slanging match, i want to help people.

 

OK, we're listening

[The GodMother]

were waiting

[The GodMother]

Also GM, pls don't be so bitter as to turn this into a slanging match, i want to help people.

 

Well if you want to help ppl then answer the questions that ppl have asked.

 

These are debt recovery related questions.

 

Maybe you would not think i am being bitter if you saw what DCAs do to ppl and what i chose to work with. Maybe one day you shoul come to where i work and see the problems for your self. you would be sick of your job by the end of the day.

[pt2537]

Okay people

 

lets not make this personal please and give Durt a chance to answer proper questions on the subject that he or she has offered to

 

at the end of the day, there may be some benefit to come out of it.

 

if this thread turns into a slanging match then we may have to consider closing it which helps no one

[andrew1]

Okay people

 

lets not make this personal please and give Durt a chance to answer proper questions on the subject that he or she has offered to

 

There's nothing Durt could answer that hasn't already been answered in the debt forums threads - people working in DCA's have been on countless times before and wound people up then run back to base.

 

at the end of the day, there may be some benefit to come out of it.

 

No there won't it'll just generate bitterness as you have people who despise DCA's with a passion for very good reasons, it's a waste of everyones time for him/her to try

 

if this thread turns into a slanging match then we may have to consider closing it which helps no one

 

Then I'd close it now cos that's what will happen

 

 

 

Don't be drawn into this kind of thread, no matter how well intentioned. There is nearly two years research gone into the threads in the debt forum and when I say research, I mean research. In the Cabot forum threads alone where the Cabot Fan Club were so powerful there's enough experience and knowledge gone into saving hundreds if not thousands of people from debt harassment and wrongly constructed Agreements or no agreements at all.

We uncover malpractice - and Cabot wished they'd never heard of us..

 

Each and every DCA has people on this forum with acres of experience working behind the scenes tripping them up on hundreds of counts of bad practice - whoever Durt is or what intentions he/she has it's a waste of time for everyone - Best advice for anyone coming onto the forum for debt collection agency threads is to read the threads. Take a day or two or more before deciding what to do, but ALL your answers will be there. There's no quick fix you have to read and then ask, but getting into this twaddle is a waste of space and resources.

 

Durt, if you want to help, spread yourself about the forum helping - you work in a dca - so what? you think coming on offering advice will make people trust you? - take it from one who knows - they won't.

 

 

Sarah

[Brassed off]

Hear, hear Sarah

[elizabeth1]

SARAH - WELL SAID!!

 

As Sarah has said the best advice for anyone here is to read plenty - use the search engine at the top of the forum page to see older threads to read up on and then ask questions if needed. Anybody with Debt Collection Agency problems - do your research - use the "thread tool" to subscribe to any relevant threads you may want to keep an eye on.

 

There have been so many excellent posters here offering the benefit of their experiences over the last 18 months two years etc.. so there is so much information to go through for hints. Answers are here really.

[Lula]

Well you lot are a mighty charitable lot, hung drawn and quartered hardly before he has uttered a word, I must say that your friendliness knows no bounds. you are acting like a bunch of playground bullies, hope you are all happy!

[andrew1]

Lula, down boy! How many times have you and countless other generous, helpful, charitable and knowledgable people spent endless days faffing about answering a whole bunch of useless questions and throwing cold water over a fight just because the poster admits they work in a dca?

 

How many PM's have you had from people who haven't started a thread of their own, haven't posted barely one post and asking for your assistance to answer questions about things that are already well wrung-out and found by searching and researching threads. ALL the answers are already there, put on by people like you and me who have spent endless hours researching and clarifying facts - don't be too quick to condemn - what I have said just cuts to the chase and will save everyone time and energy and who's resources and time are better spent with individuals desperate for help. Durt can help if the knowledge he/she has is directed at a useful thread by someone who needs it. But experience tells us what has been said above is fact - now, it'll serve two purposes if what I say is taken on board. 1) Durts feelings and good intentions will not be wasted on an inevitable slanging match 2) Constructive help will be directed at those who need it.

 

Now if you think that's us hang, drawing and quartering people then you've proved my point; It's a waste of time and the thread needs closing.

[pt2537]

Sorry but whilst i totally respect your point of view, i do not agree with you, to close the thread without justification would IMHO amount to unreasnable censorship.

 

if it becomes the case that this thread becomes nothing more than a slanging match then i will either unapprove those posts or as a last resort close the thread

 

however, i feel that Durt is entitled to speak and we should atleast have the decency to listen before passing judgment.i have yet to see any posts from Durt which make be believe that they are out to mislead people etc and until we do i dont think we should be so quick to condem

 

of course, this is just my opinion

[pmhcfc]

Sorry but whilst i totally respect your point of view, i do not agree with you, to close the thread without justification would IMHO amount to unreasnable censorship.

 

of course, this is just my opinion

 

Is that the same opinion that got the Cabot sub-forum 'closed' ? Dirt's not the 1st on here offering 'help' as one of the 'enemy' and he''ll probably not be the last. None of the other DCA workers offering their help has ever posted anything that was worth much, let alone worth reading.

 

Dirt will spend most of his posts justifying why he does what he does in his job, and then eventually get bored and never come back. If he really is here to help the masses then why not PM with a Mod and let this Mod into all the secrets, lies and videotape of the way a DCA operates. He's already admitted to not knowing the law regarding these matters - nuff said.

 

I think he's here on a wind up, getting his own kicks along the way..Of course, this is just my opinion.

[The GodMother]

this is the thread that he has admitted he nos nothing about the law on Global Debt Recovery Ltd.

 

Maybe instead of jumping around the questions that have been answered which are not unreasonable questions really he should answer them.

 

I cannont safely say i have seen another thread with a DCA rep on it so i cant comment on that side of things but if this has happened in the past and will cause an offence to ppl than need the help or will just cause more problems then maybe something does need to be done about it.

 

Just my opinion of course.

[Zerocool1]

look from what i can see no one has insulted him or anything of the type several people have asked questions that i think they need answering.

 

So hear goes my question to you Durt is this when a 'client ' phones you at your call center and says the account is in dispute because there is no valid cca and as such you cannot collect on that account why do people like myself still get telephone calls letters etc saying that you will be calling on peoples doorsteps to recover the money.

 

 

3 times yesterday a debt recovery group phoned my mobile and left it thier connected for anything upto 15 mins no sound no person on the other end just silence.

 

I also ask are these dca's trained in any relevent parts of the law?

[ScarletPimpernel]

I also ask are these dca's trained in any relevent parts of the law?

 

This is a very relevant point. Whenever DCA staff have come on CAG, whatever their motivation, one thing they have always demonstrated is a general lack of knowledge about laws and regulations which are fundamental to their employer's business.

 

I can imagine that not providing training on consumer law and OFT Guidance to their staff (or at least the 'coal face' workers), is an attractive option for DCAs. People who don't know better will say what they're told to say, and may well believe it. If the OFT or FOS actually took radical action about DCAs lying about the law, the DCAs would simply sack the 'incompetent' staff member - and carry on exactly as before.

 

Consequently, when DCAs come on CAG they give a view of the law as their employers want them to see it, not necessarily as it is. We should simply view it like any other post on CAG - someone's opinion, not necessarily a factual statement of the law.

 

Personally, I find an embittered DCA worker a useful source of intelligence - it would be helpful to know, for example, just how much manual input there is in DCA offices; whether the way in which the DCA company is paid by the OC affects how hard they try to collect; whether the way in which staff are paid encourages them to bully, details of what the collection process entails (and what causes any deviation from the norm), and what sort of training DCA staff actually undergo. Knowing these things would help us to develop ways to counter their tactics.

 

We should be 'running' these people, not trying to discourage them.

 

So, now we have someone on the inside, let's change Durt's username to something else - Stakeknife, for example, and see what we can find out...

[andrew1]

Scarlet, you of all people surprise me when you state it useful to know what you have above. You've 1200 odd posts, helped so many, me included yet surely you must have read the threads? - You've been on enough.

 

Nothing, apart from giving the poor soul the same rights as we all have of having his/her say and being respected for having their say, that has so far been written above provides anyone with any helpful info - he/she should do as we all have - go on the threads and help individuals where and when they need it - and if they have some particularly special knowledge which can help that individual - do what we all do - help them. Keep off threads like this which are just a yellow brick road to slaughter.

 

I am not pedantic, I am not vindictive, I am not out for some personal self gratification, glory or anything else other than to help people - I learned so many things off this forum that I could never have done on my own, but now I'm empowered by reading through and researching to carry off what I have learned I can now help others, but that has come following MONTHS of reading through threads, learning from peoples experiences and being guided by those who knew more than me. THAT is exactly what everyone coming on here should and must do.

 

You'll all no doubt be pleased to know I will leave this thread now and make no further comments - I'll leave it for those who like to believe this character will in some way help their cause - once (or if) they've read the threads - come back and tell us all they still think the same. Compare the answers they get here to the real life, well researched and authoritive posts that have gone on before, they'll not go wrong reading. DCA's do not come on here being kind and considerate for we poor rogue debtors - they come on to waste our time and release the guilt of having telephoned someone else for the 8th or tenth time that day threatening them with bailiffs - kinda clears their conscience before going home to the safety of their own families.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Andrew1 - I respect your opinion, and agree with much of what you say.

 

I agree that as individuals none of the DCAs who have come here have really helped any individuals who are experiencing problems. I am trying to see the bigger picture (aaggh - corporate speak - I'll flog myself later), and suggesting is that it may be possible to dig a little deeper and gain an insight into how the opposition works. There is an old saying that 'time spent in reconnaissance is rarely wasted', and I just don't think we should give away any opportunity to learn. For example, even the risible nonsense that is the Debt Collector of the Year had something to teach - about the way companies motivate their staff, and above all how desperate they are to hide the truth about what they do and legitimise their activities. On a personal note, seeing that none of them can tie their own bow ties speaks volumes!

 

If a DCA comes here with malicious intent it is up to the rest of us, especially those with experience, to point out the flaws in their statements.

 

It remains to be seen, of course, whether Durt has anything useful to say.

[The GodMother]

I thought i had read/heard somewhere that dcas nw had to start training there staff in the OFT guidelines and a few useful things that may cause a disputed debt from the Consumer credit act of 1974 and 2006?

 

I may be wrong

[onthebrink]

I know I am going to get slaughtered for this but hay ho.

 

I worked for a DCA as a staff member and later as a supervisor between 1992-1997 (FCA UK Ltd now called NCM Collections Ltd).

 

 

I'll apologise for calling us 'debtors'.

 

Training:

I was allocated to a client account (Halifax). It was my responsibility to collect as much money for the Halifax as possible. If my memory is correct I had in excess of 4000 accounts on file.

 

When I started I received two days 'on the job' training. This revolved around three pimary objectives.

 

1) get them to pay....something.

2) obtain as much information from the debtor and document it on the system.

3) Assess the likelyhood that objective 1 can be achieved through the use of objective 2.

 

I was provided a script that should be followed verbatim. In bold letters was the sentence 'NEVER TRUST A DEBTOR'. There was a number of responses to key 'excuses' put forward by the debtor, i.e -

 

- 'I cannot afford to pay this' = response, 'you will need to resolve this Mrs X or you will have to appear in court.' (fear tactic)

 

- 'go on then, take me to court' = response 'Mrs Y, if a CCJ is issued the court can instruct the bailiffs to seize your goods.'

 

Throughout my 2 day training I was never told about legislation, or the requirements under the CCA, etc. Such information was irrelevant. The only exception to this was regarding CCJs. If a debtor stated they already had a CCJ we were required to check the credit file of the individual at his last two addresses. If a CCJ was registered we were to send the account to a supervisor for determination.

 

If a debtor gave information that was 'out of the norm' (legislation, etc.) we were required to pass the account to a supervisor.

 

When you are a DCA staff member you are required to collect as much money as possible. On the wall of the office was an tv screen that detailed the recovered amount per 'client' (Halifax) for the proceeding day. It was the first thing that the staff checked when they arrived at 8am.

 

 

Payment/letter Processing

When you send a letter or cheque they are opened and the chq/cash/debit card instruction are processed by a Finance asst. They would update the finance section of the debtor records. Any letters were passed to the 'account manager' (staff member but it sounded more senior), Hence when you say, I want to speak to a manager the script reply is 'I am the person that manages your account, it is me you need to discuss this with'. I was told to keep the pressure on the debtor and only pass the account to a supervisor if the debtor got abusive or quoted legislation.

 

Anyway, as the system is calling debtors I would go through each letter in the in-tray and update the system notes. It really depended on the content of the letter that determined action. Mostly it was the normal 'I cannot pay' or 'I need more time'. If my headset bleeped I would take a call.

 

If I got a letter I did not understand, from a solicitor, or quoting legislation I was required to pass it to a supervisor.

 

If you want me to go on I will, but if this is boring anyone then tell me to shut up. I'll check in tomorrow to update if required.

 

Other areas I know about:

 

Collection Procedure/timescales

CCA requests

S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request

Recommend Write-offs/unrecoverable

Debts over 2 years old.

Debts in dispute.

recommend CCJ.

Supervisor responsibility.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Thanks, Onthebrink. Not boring at all; on the contrary, this is useful stuff.

 

An explanation of the actual procedures and timescales would be helpful. Also, who writes letters, and is it, as I suspect, the case that most are simply templates?

[onthebrink]

Thanks, Onthebrink. Not boring at all; on the contrary, this is useful stuff.

 

An explanation of the actual procedures and timescales would be helpful. Also, who writes letters, and is it, as I suspect, the case that most are simply templates?

 

Thanks, OK, I'll do the procedure/timescales then off for the night.

 

Telephone calls.

Staff members work on an automated calling system where each account is rotated and called. If you answer it is picked up by a member of staff that gets a bleep in the headphones. Each member of staff would only talk to a debtor for his client (Halifax). If YOU call them, and the Halifax account managers is on a call it is diverted to a supervisor (your details are requested). Staff cannot see who the computer is calling! if a call gets 'a hit' the screen they are in closes and your account details come up, the conversation is then recorded and a clock appears on screen, staff have a time limit to talk to you (they won't chat all day!!) and this can be btween 2-15mins, at the 15min point the computer notifies a supervisor that a 'long call' is in progress and will automatically tune his headset into the conversation (if the supervisor is not on a call themselves), if they are on a call a message is flashed on their screen.

 

The whole point of the telephone call is to get you to pay. The staff member will start with 'you need to pay the balance in full today' and slowly give ground until a 'compromise' is reached.

 

HINT: stick to your guns, offer what you can afford. Don't get angry (easy to say I know) but they are working from a script and enjoy it when they wind you up.

 

NOTE: the staff member is their to get information out of YOU, they won't give you any information except what YOU have already told them in previous calls!!

 

When the call ends the recorded conversation is shunted to an archive file and can only be replayed by a supervisor. The member of staff has 2 minutes to update the screen before the computer starts the call cycle again.

 

If there is no answer to your 'phone the computed will reallocated a new slot later in the day. This could be in 2, 4 or 6 hours depending on the number of debtors from that client. DCAs can only make a max of 25 calls a week (6 days from 7), so this can be about 3 unanswered calls a day. Once they have spoken to you the system needs to be given an 'action' when the screen is completed by the staff member. This action will depend on what the staff member feels is appropriate (see 'actions' at the bottom for more info).

 

Letters:

 

You are correct in you assumption that 90% of the letters sent out by a DCA are pre-written or template letters. The system can generate a letter every 5 days if no phone call is answered and it will move up a scale of seriousness from say, 'call us' to 'pre-Litergation', etc. The member of staff can also request a letter based upon the conversation you had with them by pressing the F1-12 keys.

 

Each letter sent out is just a template and when the DCA has run out of letters with NO response at all, it is passed back to the client for legal action to commence.

 

NOTE: some DCAs have a legal section that can issue CCJs via an associated solicitor, but the client must approve such action. When an account is passed back to the client for a decision there is usually a 14 day 'quiet' period, where you hear nothing at all from the DCA. After this you may get it passed to another DCA (and the process starts again) or sent for legal action.

 

If you have asked a question outside the norm and a template letters does not answer the query, this will be sent to a supervisor for determination.

 

DCA staff do not have the function to respond to your letter in person. And sometimes this can be VERY frustrating for the member of staff/supervisor. One of the biggest problems with DCAs is this lack of 'human' consideration. The staff member may actually agree with what your saying but may not have the option (within the 'action' list) to satisfy your request. She has to move you from a position they cannot (note I didn't say will not) agree to because the system won't let them, to a position the system will allow.

 

In the 10% of cases where a 'personal' letter is sent out, this is always where you have made a formal written complaint regarding a recorded conversation that either breach the rules or where you were abused by the account manager/staff member (same thing).

 

NOTE: You may complained about a staff member swearing at you but if during the conversation up to that point you swore at him/her, you complaint would be ignored. The principle of 'get what you give' is very much in operation at DCAs.

 

HINT: If you do receive abuse, then take a step back and think 'did I start this?' if you are 100% confident you didn't, COMPLAIN in writing, stating the date and time of the call and what was said. I have released staff because they lost their temper (it's unprofessional and should NOT be tolerated). You have a right to be treated with respect, but so do the staff you are talking to!

 

 

Timescales:

This is a basic rule: a DCA should not be acting unless a DEFAULT NOTICE was issued. If you have not received a defualt notice inform the DCA immediately. They will have a procedure where the account is put on hold for 48 hours and the client must send out a copy of the DEFAULT NOTICE. When the account is passed to a DCA the client must put the date the default notice was issued. the DCA then have 120 or 180 days to recover or start to recover the debt. If after 120 or 180 days there is no progress or contact with the debtor, the account is normally passed back to the client for legal action or a home visit, etc. It is the clients decision on what would happen after that. So the Defualt notice is a key document (not just for CCA reasons) because it is the start date for recovery action. I have seen a number of cases where a default date was entered on the debtors file by a client but no default notice was ever issued (if there is a dispute between the debtor and client over the issue of a Default notice then normally a supervisor would check the debtors credit file to see if the notice is recorded - this would normally be a min of 31 days after the default notice is issued and the debtor account would be put on hold by the DCA). The supervisor can refuse to process the debtor account until a valid default notice is issued and I did do this during my time (particularly with Lombard Tricity Finance).

 

NOTE: the default notice can be issued by the DCA and with some you could get a 'pre-default notice' letter sent to you. This can form part of the DCA procedure but is often only done by 'in-house' DCAs (but not exclusively).

 

Assuming you make NO contact with the DCA (either phone or letter) then the system will normally generate a letter every 5-7 days for 'aggressive' DCAs and each letter gets more 'serious' as they escalate (these DCAs are working to the 120 day aged debtor cycle). With some medium aggressive DCAs this could be every 14-21 days. And the maximum 'cycle' is every 28 days (these DCAs are working to the 180 day aged debtor cycle).

 

Defualt Notice issued = 90 days after last payment

 

Legal action determined (after NO contact) 180 days after default issued. Please understand that this is just a general rule. It will be decided by the client based upon YOUR actions. If you are trying to resolve the debt by making an offer they are less likely to go for a CCJ. However, if the information you provide the DCA staff member could give the client an advantage (say for example, you have a mortgage with positive equity) then they may speed up a CCJ in order to issue a charging order, etc.

 

 

Actions:

This, funny enough, is the most important stage of the process. At the end of the conversation or letter, the staff member must decide 'follow up action' they only have 12 letter options with a 13th as 'pass to supervisor'.

 

Most action generate another threatening letter. But a few do not, they are:

 

1) Agree payment plan of £

2) Refused to pay, (can but won't) - pursue.

3) Recommend Legal (CCJ) - because of 'reason' (i.e positive equity)

4) Recommend write-off - because of 'reason' (i.e Bankrupt confirmed)

5) Recommend Hold - because of 'reason' (i.e S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request/CCA request)

6) Recommend visit - because of 'reason' (i.e no contact in 120 days)

7) Pass back to client (hold) - because of 'reason' (i.e Account in Dispute)

8) Pass back to client (end) - because of 'reason' (i.e Doctors note/death)

9) Pass to technical team - because of 'reason' (i.e Legislation quote)

10) Uneconomical to pursue - 'reason' (2+ CCJs on file)

 

 

I hope this helps.

[ananya]

Interesting reading, thank you.

[lickthewallfatboy]

now this is what I would classify as "useful"!!