1st Credit failure to produce CCA - STAT DEMAND - **WON + COSTS**

[Writerchris]

Hi all,

 

Firstly thanks for this great forum/site which helps so many people. I have read it with interest over the past year whilst doing battle with the seemingly infamous 1st Credit.

 

I sent them a CCA request last june (using the template letter, including £1 postal order etc) and recieved a reply from them acknowledging they'd got my request. The 14 days and then the 40 days lapsed with no contact from them. Since then I've had letters from two companies of "solicitors." I've replied to both of these companies, explaining that 1st credit have not provided me with the relevant CCA. Both these companies said they were returning the account to 1st credit.

 

Silence ensued until January, when 1st credit wrote to me saying they were passing the matter to their "pre legal team". Enough is enough I thought, so I again consulted the forum and sent them the long and hugely satifying letter telling them that they are in default of the agreement, that I don't regonise the debt, that they are in breach of the Consumer credit act and data protection act. I heard nothing until today when they sent me a letter entitled "Request for copy invoice/invoices"

 

anyone know what they are up to? What happens after the default period re:CCA's?

 

any and all advice would be greatly apprecciated.

 

thanks and best wishes to all

[42man]

Can you scan the letters and then post them up on here. I would call consumer direct (who in turn will put you on to trading standards)....

[Writerchris]

sure I'll scan them today. Thanks

[Writerchris]

The forum won't let me upload the letter scans as it says the files are too big, so I'll write out what they (1st Credit said):

 

 

In response to request letter for CCA they wrote:

 

06 June 2007

 

 

Dear sir / Madam

 

 

Request for copy Agreement:

 

I refer to your communication asking 1st Credit Ltd to provide you with a copy of the relevant agreement.

 

We will shortly be advising our client of your request. This document will be sent to you as soon as possible. This process may take at least one month.

 

Once you have received a copy of this agreement we would expect you to contact this office immediately to arrange settlement of this debt.

 

Please call this office should you wish to discuss this matter.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Squiggle,

 

Administration Department.

 

 

 

Then

 

Connaught Collections UK Ltd

 

4th July 2007

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

RE: 1st Credit Limited (HSBC) - £11,000

 

We have been instructed by 1st Credit Limited (HSBC) to recover this debt.

 

It is now our intention to issue a statutory Demand under the Insolvency Act 1986 (Bankruptcy), as we are unaware of any valid reason for your non-payment.

 

Please contact us to arrange a mutually convenient time and date for service.

 

Should you fail to contact us within seven days then a Statutory Demand will be issued without further warning.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

Squiggle,

 

Enforcement Department.

 

 

Then:

 

 

Robinson, Way & Company Limited

 

12/09/07

 

Dear Mr......

 

Due to 1st credit LTD (HSBC) amount due £11,000

 

 

Formal demand for payment

 

 

Our client has authorised us to recover the full amount you owe, shown above. This is a formal notice of intended court action. We may take action unless you pay the full amount within 10 days of the date of this letter.

 

If court action is taken and a court considers your failure to pay to be due to your refusal or neglect to pay, an order for repayment may be made. If you fail to pay in accordance with a court payment order the following may occur:

 

* A process of enforcement by court officers.

* An order for deductions from your earnings.

* An unpaid court order may make credit difficult to obtain.

 

This promlem account will not go away or be forgotten - it makes sense to pay now. Call now to pay using your debit or credit card - or see the payment instuctions overleaf.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

Squiggle

 

Collections Manager.

 

 

 

 

[i wrote to them saying show me the CCA]

 

 

 

Robinson, Way & Company,

 

 

09/10/07

 

 

Dear Mr.....

 

 

Due to 1st Credit LTD (HSBC)

 

Further to your recent letter we have returned the above account to our clinet. You should contact them for further details.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Squiggle,

 

Collections Manager.

 

 

 

 

 

then:

 

 

 

 

Mackenzie Hall

 

9th november 2007

 

 

Pursuers: 1st credit Limited

Original Creditor: HSBC

Principal sum:£10,999

 

 

Final notice

 

Dear Mr....

 

We have been instructed by our client to recover this overdue account on their behalf.

 

 

Our clients have informed us that they are unaware of any legitimate reason for non-payment of their account and although they would prefer an amicable settlement, they will not hesitate to take such further action as may be appropriate.

 

We trust that this will not be necessary and would request that you send payment by the deadline below via the enclosed business reply envelope to avoid action.

 

 

Payment deadline: NOON 16th november 2007

 

 

If you have recently forwarded payment or if there is any issue that you would like to bring to our attention then we would ask you to contact this office immediately by telephone.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

Francis Clark,

 

 

Mackenzie Hall Limited

 

 

 

 

Again I point out that I have recieved no CCA and get:

 

 

 

 

Mackenzie Hall

 

 

20 November 2007

 

 

Dear ........

 

 

Request for copy of Agreement under section s.78(1)of the Consumer Credit Credit Act 1974

 

 

We refer to your letter dated 12/11/2007.

 

We have contacted our client for a copy of your agreement and statement of your account.

 

Your account is currently on "hold". Please be assured that no action will be taken against you.

 

Should we not recieve the relevant proof from our client within 28 days, we will close your file and return the file to our client. Our clinet will then decide what step to take.

 

Kind Regards,

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Julie Melvin

 

Compliance Department.

 

 

 

 

Then:

 

 

1st Credit

 

31/01/2008

 

Dear sir / Madam.

Re your agreement with : HSBC Bank PLC

 

 

Please note that your case has been passed the the pre legal team

 

The aim of this department is to make every effort to reach an agreement to clear this debt without the need for legal action.

 

If we are successful in obtaining a County court Judgement against you and you own/jointly own the freehold/leasehold interest in a property then we could take the the appropriate action to secure a charging order against this property. If 1st credit were successful in obtaining a Final Charging Order we would be legally entitled to apply to the court for an order for Sale of this property.

 

Alternatively we may decide to petition for your bankruptcy.

 

We would fo course prefer you to contact this office to discuss how the debt may be cleared within a reasonable period.

 

If you are considering re-mortgaging your property or taking out a loan to clear your debts please advise us ASAP.

 

If we do not receive a reply to this letter within seven days your details will be passed to our Legal Team for appropriate action.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

 

Squiggle

 

 

1st credit Audit Team.

 

 

 

 

It was at this stage that I hit them with the "you are in default of the CCA waiting period. I don't acknowledge this debt" . etc etc letter

 

 

Finally, today I got:

 

 

1st credit

 

Client: HSBC Bank

 

 

Request for copy invoice(s)

 

I refer to your communication asking 1st Credit Ltd to provide you with a copy invoice/invoices

 

We will shortly be advising our clinet of your request. These documents will be sent to you as soon as possible. This process may take up to one month.

 

Once you have recieved copies of these invoices we will expect immediate settlement of the balance outstanding.

 

Please call this office should you wish to discuss this matter.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

Squiggle,

 

 

Administration Department.

[42man]

It's unbelievable Chris, it's like one of those rotary washing lines (except it has dirty clothes on it)....why are they wasting all the paper...firstly I would report them to consumer direct and the FOS....and your MP. IF it gets passed on again to another DCA then you need to send this letter....

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the **original creditor/DCA** and has been since DATE 2007.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My last letter from **original creditor/DCA** was DATE and intimated that my complaint would be

resolved on **DATE**, this obviously hasn’t happened.

As **original creditor/DCA** are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, OFT Collection Guidelines, *Subject Access request and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the **original creditor/DCA** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as **New DCA** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If **New DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

The other way of course to get closure on this is to do what elizabeth1 did and slap them in court!! - take a read of this.....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/115280-useful-information.html

[Writerchris]

Cheers 42,

 

Ha ha yeah - I must admit that any worry I have had in the past about this account has degenerated into quasi-amused bemusement at their non-sensical replies.

The matter is made all the more surreal by the fact that they keep getting my name wrong on letters and can't tell me what the supposed "debt" was taken out for, or when.

 

Thanks a million for the advice and the template letter. Think I'll go on the offensive and do some reporting of the fools and if that doesn't make them shoo I'll follow the wonderous precedent established by Elizabeth I and see them in court.

 

:O)

[cashins]

After that lot it's pretty obvious they have got absolutely....

 

ZILCH

David

[Writerchris]

Yeah Cashins,

 

I reckon so. For a start they keep calling me Mr B.A ........ and my initials are C.P!

 

I just wish they'd admit that I know the rules on what they can persue me for and what they can't and that they'd give up, repair my credit rating and go away!

[Belaflat]

I have had this with these muppets.

Acknowledgement of request followed by all sorts of letters asking me to pay up.

I made a formal complaint to which they acknowledged that without a CCA compliance, the debt was unenforceable and then went on to waffle on about they would still expect me to pay, even without a valid agreement.

Even after this letter from them, they sent 2 more asking me to ring them urgently to discuss the matter.

Complaints have been made to FOS etc but it all seems to no avail, they just keep ploughing on regardless.

[Writerchris]

They do, indeed, seem very random in their replies. Even if they admit that they don't have the CCA (sadly they admitted this to me only on the phone, before I learned never to accept anything other than written answers from them). they keep sending their threatening mumbo jumbo.

They threaten us with court, yet breaching things like the Consumer Credit and Data protection Acts don't seem to bother them,

as you said ..... muppets!

[Boro]

Am i right in thinking that the balance is now showing as £1 less than before the cca request

[Writerchris]

Yeah Boro - the £1 discrepancy came about due to Robinson Way cheekily pinching my £1 postal order and knocking it off the so called "debt"! Typical...

 

All is quiet on the 1st credit front I'll post anything new they send me in case it helps people out to read it....

[Writerchris]

Hi All,

 

Well, today I received another letter from 1st credit:

 

1st Credit Audit Team

 

 

YOUR HOME MAY BE AT RISK

 

We are unaware of any legally valid reason for non-payment of the above debt or of a reasonable offer being made. We are therefore considering whether we should issue a statutory Demand under the Insolvency Act 1986 (Bankruptcy), or Section 222(1)(a) of the Insolvency Act 1986 for Scottish residents.

 

WHAT ARE THE LEGAL IMPLICATIONS OF BEING BANKRUPT?

 

1. You lose control of your assets - this may include your house and vehicle or any luxury items you own.

 

2. You cannot obtain credit for up to 6 years.

 

3. You cannot act as a company director, and certain occupations and professions have strict rules regarding the employment of a bankrupt.

 

4. You may be publicly examined in court.

 

5. Details of your Bankruptcy may be published in a local or specialised paper.

 

6. If you own a business, it is more likely that the Official Receiver will close down your business, dismiss your employees and sell off your assets.

 

We would strongly recommend that you consult a Solicitor or suitable advice bureau as Bankruptcy would have very serious implications for you.

 

THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE, TELEPHONE US TO DISCUSS THIS MATTER.

 

OUR OPENING HOURS ARE MONDAY TO FRIDAY 09:00 TO 17:30

 

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

Squiggle,

 

1st Credit Audit Team

 

 

 

 

It seems that they are randomly pressing buttons on their computers and sending me whatever form letter their printer spits out - loonies!

 

should I even bother replying to this? Any advice is, as ever, greatly appreciated

 

many thanks

[babybear39]

Hi All,

 

Well, today I received another letter from 1st credit:

 

1st Credit Audit Team

 

 

YOUR HOME MAY BE AT RISK

 

We are unaware of any legally valid reason non compliance with your CCA request = legally valid reason for non-payment of the above debt or of a reasonable offer being made. We are therefore considering whether we should issue a statutory Demand under the Insolvency Act 1986 (Bankruptcy), or Section 222(1)(a) of the Insolvency Act 1986 for Scottish residents.

 

WHAT ARE THE LEGAL IMPLICATIONS OF BEING BANKRUPT?

 

1. You lose control of your assets - this may include your house and vehicle or any luxury items you own.

 

2. You cannot obtain credit for up to 6 years.

 

3. You cannot act as a company director, and certain occupations and professions have strict rules regarding the employment of a bankrupt.

 

4. You may be publicly examined in court.

 

5. Details of your Bankruptcy may be published in a local or specialised paper.

 

6. If you own a business, it is more likely that the Official Receiver will close down your business, dismiss your employees and sell off your assets.

 

We would strongly recommend that you consult a Solicitor or suitable advice bureau as Bankruptcy would have very serious implications for you.

 

THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE, TELEPHONE US TO DISCUSS THIS MATTER.

 

OUR OPENING HOURS ARE MONDAY TO FRIDAY 09:00 TO 17:30

 

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

Squiggle,

 

1st Credit Audit Team

 

 

 

 

It seems that they are randomly pressing buttons on their computers and sending me whatever form letter their printer spits out - loonies!

 

should I even bother replying to this? Any advice is, as ever, greatly appreciated

 

many thanks

 

 

RW shouldn't have knocked the £1 off the alledged debt...Nawty, nawty...

 

Make a complaint to Trading Standards and the FOS ASAP.

[Writerchris]

Thanks,

 

I know - naughty RW! I've already reported 1st Cred to trading standards, will also report them to FOS.

 

Should I send them any reply or just ignore them? They are starting to remind me of the Knight on the Bridge in The Holy Grail. They seem to be shouting the DCA equivalent of "Come back! I can still bite your ankles!"

[babybear39]

Personally I'd write back advising them that THE LEGAL reason for non-payment is thet THEY HAVE NOT complied with your CCA request...Nice and simple so they understand

[Writerchris]

He he cheers, I'll give that a go, maybe draw them a nice picture in crayon too

 

[babybear39]

I really, really want to reply with something, but I'll get cagbotted

[PGH7447]

Subscribing

[David963]

Had a similar thing with 1st Credit, failed to produce CCA and then heard nothing for ages, got a letter from Connaught for payment, sent them reply informing them of the lack of documents and heard nothing again until February of this year.

 

Connaught sent Statutory Demand and threatened bankrupcy, i went to court and handed in teh 6.4 & 6.5 docs with my answers etc.

 

Judge threw out their request as they did not turn up in court

 

Will wait to see if i ever hear from them again

[Santos L Helper]

Don't forget a complaint to The OFT at this address........

Consumer Credit Fitness Investigations Group

Office of Fair Trading

Fleetbank House

2-6 Salisbury Square

London

EC4Y 8JX

Every little helps:D

Santos

[Writerchris]

Hi All,

 

Wel I've had contact from the 1st credit mob again.

 

Firstly a couple of weeks ago I got a "copy" of three semi legible loan account statements (three out of a series of nineteen apparently) dating from 2001-2002 .

 

Then I hear nothing until I get back from a short bank holiday break and find a letter from 1st credit....

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

We regret that you have chosen not to contact us following the recent letter from LCS Solicitors.

 

You have not paid the debt nor have you made acceptable arrangements for repayment. We have been left with little alternative but to serve a Statutory Demand.

 

We attatch a Statutory Demand. Please acknowledge receipt. Failure to comply with a Statutory Demand is evidence that you are unable to pay your debts and are insolvent within the meaning of the Insolvency Act. This could lead to a Bankruptcy Order being made against you.

 

Even at this late stage, our preferred solution would be to resolve the matter by agreement with you without the need for bankruptcy proceedings.

 

Please telephone us within 7 days of the date of this letter to discuss your proposals for repayment, or if you require details of the county Court to which any application relating to the Statutory Demand should be made.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

Squiggle,

 

 

Litigation Department.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Warning

 

This is an importnat document. You should refer to the notes entitled 2how to comply with a Statutory Demand or have it set aside"

 

If you wish to have this demand set aside you must make application to do so within 18 days from it's service to you.

 

If you do not apply to set aside within 18 days or otherwise deal with this demand as set out in the notes within 21 days after its service on you, you could be made bankrupt and your property and goods taken away from you.

 

Please read the Demand and notes carefully. If you are in any doubt about your position you should seek advice immediately from a solicitor, a Citizens advice Bureau, or a licensed insolvency pracitioner.

 

 

Demand:

 

To: Mr .......

 

Address: 20 ........

 

 

This demand is served on you by the Creditor:

 

Name: 1st Credit 9finance0 Limited

Address: The Omnibus Building Lesbourne Road Reigate Surrey RH2 7JP

 

The Creditor claims that you owe the sum of £10,999.00 full particulars of whic are set ouy on page 2, and that it is payable immediately and, to the extent of the sum demanded, is unsecured.

 

The creditor demands that you pay the above debt or secure or compound for it to the creditor's satisfaction.

 

Signature of individual:

Name:

 

Date 30/04/2008

 

Position or relationship to Creditor: Operations Controller

 

I am authorised to make this demand on the Creditor's behalf.

 

N.B. The person making this demand mustt complete the whole of pages 1,2 and parts a, b and c (as applicable) on page three.

 

 

 

Page 2:

 

Particluars of Debt:

 

(These particulars must include (a) when the debt was incurred, (b) the consideration for the debt(or if there is no consideration the way in which it arose) and © the amount due as at the date of this demand).

 

 

The debt relates to sums due under account number 123456/1234567 with Hsbc Bank Plc. The debt was assigned to the Creditor on the 07/07/2005. The amount due as at the date of this demand is £10,999.00

 

 

Page Three:

 

Appropriate Court for Setting Aside Demand

 

Rule 6.4 (2) of th insolvency Rules 1986 states that the appropriate Court is the court to which you would have to present your own bankruptcy petition in accordance with Rule 6.40 (1) and 6.42 (2). In accordance with those rules the appropriate Court is your nearest County court having Bankcruptcy Jurisdiction.

 

Any applcation by you to set aside this Demand should be made to that court.

 

For details of the court to which you may apply, or if you believe you have grounds to set aside the demand and would like information on how to do so, please call us on 0870 164 2057

 

Part B

 

The individual or individuals to whom any communication regarding this Demand may be addressed are:

 

Name:

Address: The Omnibus Building Lesbourne Road Reigate Surrey

Telephone number:

Reference:

 

Part C

 

For completion if the creditor is entitled to the debt by way of assignment

 

Original Creditor Name(s): Hsbc Bank Plc

 

Date of assignment: 07/07/2005

 

 

Assignees: 1st credit (finance) Limited

 

 

How to comply with a Statutory Demand or have it set aside (act within 18 days)

 

If you wish to avoid a bankruptcy petition being presented against you, you must pay the debt shown on page 1, particulars of which are set out on page 2 of this notice, within the period of 21 days after its service upon you. Alternatively, you can attempt to come to a steelement with the Creditor. To do this you should:

 

Inform the individual (or one of the individuals) named in Part B above immediately that you are willing and able to offer security for the debt to the creditors satisfaction; or

Inform the individual (or one of the individuals) named in Part B above immediately that you are willing and able to compound for the debt to the creditor's satisfaction.

 

 

If you dispute the Demand in whole or in part you should:

 

Contact the individual named in PArt B immediately.

 

If you consider that you have grounds to have this demand set aside or if you do not quickly recieve a satisfactory written reply from the individual named in Part B whom you have contacted you should apply within 18 days from the date of service of this Demand on you to the appropriate Court shown in Part A above to have the demand set aside.

Any application to set aside the demand (Form 6.4 in Schedule 4 of the Insolvency Rules 1986) should be made within 18 days from the date of service upon you and be supported by an Affidavit (Form 6.5 in Schedule 4 to those Rules) stating the grounds on which the Demand should be set aside. The forms may be obtained from the appropriate court when you attend to make the application.

 

Remember: Fromt he date of service on you of this document: (a) you have only 18 days to apply to the court to have the Demand set aside, adn (b) you have only 21 days before the creditor may present a bankruptcy petition

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never recieved the letter from LPs solicitors that they are on about, and unless three random bank statements constitute a CCA then they still haven't sent me any relevant documentation.

 

 

Any advice on my next move would be greatly appreciated and once, again, thanks to everyone who has already helped me out by replying - it really helps!

[nicklea]

Hi,

 

You need to apply to have it set aside. This is important otherwise they can apply to make you bankrupt. You have 18 days from the day regardless of whatever date is on it.

 

There are plenty of threads on here, if you search under "statutory demand" you will find them, also this is a good thread:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/135078-me-1st-credit-stat.html#post1426635

 

You need to complete the affadavit, get it sworn in fromt of a court officer then hand it in to the court. A date for the hearing will be made and you really should go along in person. It's quite straight forward, doesn't cost anything and you will probably be able to claim your costs as well..

 

Give a shout if youneed any more help after reading the above thread

[Writerchris]

Hi Nicklea

 

Great! thanks for the "Gary" thread, that's very reassuring to read. I'll find out which court I have to submit the "Setting aside" forms to and let battle commence! Do I have to ask 1st Credit for the court details, and if so, given the time restraints of the 18 day timescale, should I...urgh... phone the creatures to ask them this?

 

They haven't provided anything approaching a CCA, even after years of asking, so I'm rather looking forward to this progression of the situation and getting it resolved. The also have a record of thois alleged "debt" under a name that isn't mine (right surname, wrong initials stuck infront of it!) so I'm hoping that'll count in my favour. Also, I never even got a letter from LSD Pseudo-licitors as they state... loonies!

 

Thanks again for the advice and for pointing me in the right direction. I sincerely hope that the end of my 1st Credit nightmare is finally in sight!

 

[nicklea]

You just submit the forms to your local court. No actual court action has started yet, so effectively, it is you that is starting the court action.

 

I had a bit of a problem with my previous post. What i meant to say was that you have 18 days from the day it came into your hands. When you swear the affadavit you say that it came into your hands on whatever date it was and the 18 days starts from that date. So, for example, if you were away on holiday for a couple of weeks and only got it when you returned home then that is the day it came into your hands regardless of any date that is actually on the demand.

 

If it's just a matter of wrong initials then that really isn't going to make much of a difference (in my opinion) you really need to make the strong points clearly like having no CCA with your signature and all the prescribed terms on it.