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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 162 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Ticket was on display


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I've made quite a bit of work for myself? Fine by me I am self employed and well used to recovering costs

 

So I will ask again, do they have a leg to stand on (I'm asking it as a serious question just in case any reader of these forums thinks of an angle that I haven't)

 

Mossycat

 

Assuming you can prove the ticket was clearly on display, I would suppose you may win on appeal. Whether an adjudicator would award costs, especially if the way the ticket was displayed came to light, is much more doubtful.

If I go to appeal and win can I claim costs?

 

Adjudicators can award costs to appellants or councils if either party acts "frivolously, vexaciously or wholly unreasonably". The award of costs is the exception rather than the rule. However, you should ask the adjudicator for costs if you think you have grounds

 

The question of the awarding of costs is addressed in Regulation 12 of The Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (London) Regulations 1993.

 

“12. (1) The adjudicator shall not normally make an order awarding costs and expenses, but may, subject to paragraph (2) make such an order -

 

(a) against a party (including an appellant who has withdrawn his appeal or a local authority that has consented to an appeal being allowed) if he is of the opinion that that party has acted frivolously or vexatiously or that his conduct in making, pursuing or resisting an appeal was wholly unreasonable; or

 

(b) against the local authority, where it considers that the disputed decision was wholly unreasonable.

 

(2) An order shall not be made under paragraph (1) against a party unless that party has been given an opportunity of making representations against the making of the order.

 

(3) An order under paragraph (1) shall require the party against whom it is made to pay the other party a specified sum in respect of the costs and expenses incurred by that other party in connection with the proceedings.”

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Assuming you can prove the ticket was clearly on display, I would suppose you may win on appeal. Whether an adjudicator would award costs, especially if the way the ticket was displayed came to light, is much more doubtful.

 

 

Mossycat

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Just a thought: If you have over 600 tickets from "over a year", do your council not operate some kind of season ticket or concession scheme? You could save yourself some money

 

Mossycat

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I have to say thanks to Mossycat for making me laugh at this.

 

I have previously stated that I appeal all my parking tickets and have never lost a case taken to adjudication.

 

However, there is a marked difference between getting a PCN after having parked in good faith and something has inadvertently gone wrong compared with parking in a manner designed to confuse, obstruct and obfuscate.

 

And that is what I think you have done Mossycat. Good luck to you with your appeal. I think you know what you are getting into. Just one point though; if I was the adjudicator in this case (and I stress that I am not an adjudicator in any cases!) I would seriously consider, if the LA made an application, whether my powers to award costs against you were appropriate here.

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My friend had a dispute when she had disabled aunt with her, parked up displayed appropriate blue badge, got parking ticket. apparently the last number of the ref was slightly obscured, but photo of badge holder, issuing authority etc was on-show, she did win on appeal, parkin attendant had taken about 4 pics of the badge though, to try to prove his point no-doubt, the pics were included in friends letter telling her they were letting her off, so to speak!

 

They do take pics! Good Luck!

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Park Place, and surrounding streets. 80p for 20 minutes Mon-Fri and a different rate at weekends.

 

Mossycat

 

As I said "The Truth will Out!"

 

I have contacted Leeds City Council in accordance to a PCN issued in Park Place on February 28th.

 

They were very interested to learn that somebody had been boasting of such vexatious and wholly unreasonable behaviour. Armed with the link to this thread they have promised a full investigation.

 

I have also forwarded details of my conversation with LCC and again the link to this thread to NPAS.

 

Good Luck in your appeal.

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As I said "The Truth will Out!"

 

I have contacted Leeds City Council in accordance to a PCN issued in Park Place on February 28th.

 

They were very interested to learn that somebody had been boasting of such vexatious and wholly unreasonable behaviour. Armed with the link to this thread they have promised a full investigation.

 

I have also forwarded details of my conversation with LCC and again the link to this thread to NPAS.

 

Good Luck in your appeal.

 

Bet you're fun at a party!

 

Reality is that there's not a great deal for the LA to investigate. At least there is nothing that Mossycat did that was illegal, unlike plenty of activities of PAs and LAs. Perhaps their investigation will reveal some and they will correct them!

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Bet you're fun at a party!

 

Reality is that there's not a great deal for the LA to investigate. At least there is nothing that Mossycat did that was illegal, unlike plenty of activities of PAs and LAs. Perhaps their investigation will reveal some and they will correct them!

 

Thanks for that Bernie.

 

Whilst I am totally confident that I haven't done anything illegal I thought it prudent to remove my log for a while. I suspect that someone here is possibly a PA maybe even from Leeds, perhaps even from Park Place!!!!! (Dates that people join and threads they choose to reply to and all that)

 

I don't really think that any Council would be stupid enough to use words 'wholly unreasonable', but if that's their argument it should be interesting.

 

I posted the original thread because I wanted to pick the brains and experience of this forum just to see if there was any angle that I hadn't taken into account, and it looks that there isn't.

 

Updates will follow when the matter is finalised

 

And for those of you who are fun at parties I don't need your sarcastic wishes of Good Luck, I have all I need and I sure as hell know how to use it.

 

Mossycat

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You accuse me of being sarcastic?

 

You are clearly a vindictive little twit with nothing better to do than stick 600 tickets onto a board that you cut to fit your windscreen?? How sad is that??

 

You can make all the excuses you like as to why you did it, the reality however, is that to all silent observers and posters of this website (with the exception of an equally disturbed minority), you clearly need to start living your life. You are obviously single, so why don't you get out and about and start socialising and meeting people instead of challenging a council as to their stance on their parking policy.

 

With regards to the point about doubting LCC would have used the words "wholly unreasonable", it was I who used them referring to following information already posted by Michael Browne albeit a slight amendment as the relevant regulations are cited as The Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (England and Wales) Regulations 1999.

 

 

Costs

12. - (1) The adjudicator shall not normally make an order awarding costs and expenses, but may, subject to paragraph (2), make such an order -

 

(a) against a party (including an appellant who has withdrawn his appeal or a local authority that has consented to an appeal being allowed) if he is of the opinion that the party has acted frivolously or vexatiously or that his conduct in making, pursuing or resisting an appeal was wholly unreasonable;

 

PS I'm great fun at a party.

Maybe you should get out to one.

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You accuse me of being sarcastic?

 

You are clearly a vindictive little twit with nothing better to do than stick 600 tickets onto a board that you cut to fit your windscreen?? How sad is that??

 

You can make all the excuses you like as to why you did it, the reality however, is that to all silent observers and posters of this website (with the exception of an equally disturbed minority), you clearly need to start living your life. You are obviously single, so why don't you get out and about and start socialising and meeting people instead of challenging a council as to their stance on their parking policy.

 

With regards to the point about doubting LCC would have used the words "wholly unreasonable", it was I who used them referring to following information already posted by Michael Browne albeit a slight amendment as the relevant regulations are cited as The Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (England and Wales) Regulations 1999.

 

 

Costs

12. - (1) The adjudicator shall not normally make an order awarding costs and expenses, but may, subject to paragraph (2), make such an order -

 

(a) against a party (including an appellant who has withdrawn his appeal or a local authority that has consented to an appeal being allowed) if he is of the opinion that the party has acted frivolously or vexatiously or that his conduct in making, pursuing or resisting an appeal was wholly unreasonable;

 

PS I'm great fun at a party.

Maybe you should get out to one.

 

So that's a yes then you are associated in some way with parking enforcement.

 

I never accused you of being sarcastic, I am not responsible for what you infer.

 

I do have better things to do than the cork board, I am on with my next stunt already, again it's against parking enforcement.

 

I have never made any excuses regarding what I have done, I set out to have some fun at the expense of those who wrongfully ticket or clamp vehicles, so far it's 2 - 0 to me, I am confident this will make it 3 - 0.

 

I do get out and meet people, usually when they are putting a ticket on my car

 

:)

 

So far the only thing you have posted that is factually correct is the phrase 'The truth will out', your last post certainly outed many truths about you.

 

Mossycat

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I have never made any excuses regarding what I have done, I set out to have some fun at the expense of those who wrongfully ticket or clamp vehicles, so far it's 2 - 0 to me, I am confident this will make it 3 - 0.

 

 

How is this childish prank at anyones expense except your own? The PA gets paid for checking tickets and issuing PCNs whilst you waste your freetime with such idiotic behaviour. Who may end up paying a penalty charge....you, who will have to waste free time appealing against the PCN......you, who wasted hours saving up tickets and making the stupid board.....you, who got the biggest laugh out of this.....the PA! You seem to fail to realise the staff at the Council get paid for dealing with fools like you, win or lose they still get paid do you really think they give the slightest thought to timewasters like you once they leave work, its a job they never lose, they have nothing to lose unlike yourself.

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How is this childish prank at anyones expense except your own? The PA gets paid for checking tickets and issuing PCNs whilst you waste your freetime with such idiotic behaviour. Who may end up paying a penalty charge....you, who will have to waste free time appealing against the PCN......you, who wasted hours saving up tickets and making the stupid board.....you, who got the biggest laugh out of this.....the PA! You seem to fail to realise the staff at the Council get paid for dealing with fools like you, win or lose they still get paid do you really think they give the slightest thought to timewasters like you once they leave work, its a job they never lose, they have nothing to lose unlike yourself.

 

You really haven't followed this thread very closely have you?

 

Mossycat

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You really haven't followed this thread very closely have you?

 

Mossycat

 

Do you mean the thread you took down despite trying to convince everyone you were in the right? About the PCN you are so convinced you will get off, that you took the thread about it down? That thread?? :rolleyes:

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