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    • Contact Energy Ombudsman with details of how long this complaint saga has been going on.  You may find out your meters were never correctly registered to your address and will be confused with neighbours until someone goes into central database to separate out the records.  EDF may never have legally taken over the supply and under energy legislation Scottish Power are the suppliers without your consent.   /images/bitmap/ombudsman-share-image.png Energy Ombudsman: Here to help with gas & electricity complaints WWW.OMBUDSMAN-SERVICES.ORG Do you have an unresolved complaint about your gas or electricity provider? Find out how we may be able to help.  
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    • In the autumn of 2020, I decided to change energy supplier from British Gas to EDF. This went through with no apparent problem but after approximately two weeks, I received a letter from EDF saying "Sorry you're leaving us". I contacted EDF to say that I was not leaving and was told not to worry about it, that they would resolve it and to carry on with monthly payments to EDF.    Approximately 2 weeks later, I received a text message from EDF to say, "Sorry you're leaving us". I contacted EDF again to say I was not leaving and was again told not to worry and that they would sort it out. Two weeks later I had a third message, "Sorry you're leaving us...". I contacted EDF again, but this time raised a complaint because it was becoming stressful and annoying. I asked them to explain why this kept happening. After some investigation by EDF, I was told that Scottish Power was trying to "erroneously take over" my gas supply. I confirmed that I wanted to remain with EDF and did not want to move to Scottish Power. I was advised to forward any bill sent by Scottish Power to EDF so that they could deal with it, and not pay it. However, I have never received any bill from Scottish Power until July 2022.   I was then contacted again by EDF to say that Scottish Power was trying to take over my supply because my gas meter was registered at my neighbour's address, on the energy suppliers' national database. I requested that EDF change the details for me so that I could remain an EDF customer but was told that only the existing supplier could change the details and that I would have to contact Scottish Power and request that they change the details. I reminded EDF that I had never asked Scottish Power to supply me and that as my current provider, EDF should take on this responsibility, but I was told on a number of occasions that EDF could not do this and that I would have to contact Scottish Power myself.   I have since learned that I should never have been told this. Ofgem states that if a supplier tries to erroneously transfer a supply, the two suppliers involved should communicate with each other to resolve the problem as soon as possible, and not involve the consumer. However, this is where the real problems started. I contacted Scottish Power at least 20 times over the course of 2 months, by email, online chat and telephone and spent a considerable amount of time trying to resolve this issue. The main problem was that Scottish Power refused to discuss it with me because "I did not have an account with Scottish Power". I explained on numerous occasions that I did not want an account with Scottish Power and that I just wanted them to change the location of my gas meter on the national database, but they persistently refused. Scottish Power was generally very poor at contacting me, I was doing most of the running. My neighbour, who is supplied by Scottish Power and has been for many years, said that this has been an issue in the past but Scottish Power has never resolved it. He said that when I asked EDF to take the supply back from Scottish Power, his supply was also erroneously transferred to EDF against his wishes, causing even more problems. During this occasion, Scottish Power compensated my neighbour but still refused to assist me.   I have evidence of some of the correspondence between me and Scottish Power but not all because much was over the phone and on online chat. Each time I contacted Scottish Power a new member of staff dealt with it and so they had to record the same notes each time, considerably lengthening the process. I asked if Scottish Power could allocate someone to own the complaint but because I did not have an account with Scottish Power, this was not an option. After numerous emails to Scottish Power from my neighbour, who was trying to assist with the situation - sending his meter details, my meter details and asking that the database be updated with my address - he was asked to send photos of my meter to Scottish Power. I had already been asked this by Scottish Power and had duly sent them but received no response. My neighbour then forwarded the photos by his email to Scottish Power and they replied asking him to ask me to re-send the photos directly, which I did for a second time. This was the last correspondence I had with Scottish Power about the matter. They did not contact me again.   EDF contacted me to say that they had concluded the matter from their end and requested that they close the complaint, to which I agreed. A meter reader visited sometime after to read both meters and I (naively) assured myself that the details had been changed and that EDF had resumed supply. My bill increased, and my meters were then routinely read by a visiting meter reader every quarter. My last correspondence with Scottish Power was on 9th November 2020, when I emailed the photos of my meter for the second time.   Twenty months later, towards the end of July 2022, I was on holiday with my family. I came home on 13th August to find 6 letters on the doormat from Scottish Power demanding £2134.89 for gas supply. They are addressed to "The Occupier" so they have obviously not referred to my previous correspondence or attempted to ever resolve the initial request to change my details. This is contrary to recommendations made by Ofgem's "Erroneous Transfers" paper produced in 2016. One of the letters even says, "Welcome to your new home" as though they have no knowledge of the correspondence 2 years ago. I have received another bill from Scottish Power today demanding payment and threatening referral to a debt collection agency if it is not paid. The above Ofgem paper states that erroneous takeovers should be dealt with by the two companies concerned and not by the consumer at any stage. But in my case, it has been me doing all the running, all the phoning, emailing, talking online, etc. Neither supplier has really done that much and I believe that EDF should never have told me that I should try and resolve this with Scottish Power; and when I contacted Scottish Power, they should also have taken ownership of the problem jointly with EDF and resolved it directly with EDF.   I have taken legal advice and been advised that as this is a dispute between two energy suppliers rather than between myself and a supplier, it is more appropriate for me to contact both suppliers, summarise past actions undertaken by all parties, and request that the supply be transferred back to my original supplier. This sounds hunky dory but doesn't actually help. Two questions arise in my mind... 1. Do i have to pay the bill at all given that it is addressed to "The occupier"?  2. Should I provide my name in my complaint (not yet sent) or simply refer to myself as "The Occupier"? 2. I know I can refer to back-billing guidance but my instinct tells me I shouldn't have to pay any of this bill because the supply was taken over without my consent, I tried numerous times to resolve it to no effect, and was led to believe that I was then paying for the gas due to the actions of both companies. Does anybody think I have a case here and any suggestions about how to pursue it?   Many thanks if you have managed to read this far. Even more thanks if you have any advice :-)  
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capital one charges. help!


xxorlsxx
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Hi All,

had a c/card with cap 1 and for reasons i wont bore you with i never made any payments back to them, (not good i know), anyway they have long since sold the debt to a dca and what started as a £200 debt is now a£900 debt, cap 1 had been adding charges that were unlawful untill they sold the debt.

Once i have paid the dca the £900 can i claim the money back from cap 1 as their charges have been proved unlawful? Should i SAR them?

cheers xxorlsxx

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You can reclaim the charges prior to you paying the debt off (if you wish to do it that way) and the removed charges would reduce the debt.

 

I would also send the DCA a CCA request to ensure they ahve a legal right to collect on the debt.

All help is merely my opinion only - please seek legal advice if you need to as I am only qualified in SEN law.

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Thanks Tiglet,

yes i did send the dca a cca and they have sent it to me, but they took more than the legally allowed time of 40+2 days, can i do anything about this?

Also do i contact the dca and tell them that im going to reclaim the charges from cap 1?......cheers, xxorlsxx

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Hi as tiglet say you can reclaim charges now. You will need to check if DCA has bought the debt or is assigned by crap1 to recover the debt for them. If the debt is still owned by cap1 you will need to start proceedings then cap1 will acknowledge the claim say they will defend in full then payout in approx 4 weeks. I believe it's the same process with DCA they will try to say they only bought the rights to the debt not the obligations IE the right to collect the debt not payout any claim. That is a load of crap of course if they own the debt the own the obligations.

 

I am not sure how you tell if a DCA owns the debt I have been lucky in that I have only had to deal with OC not DCA. If you you hit any problems you will get loads of help on CAG

 

all the best dpick

cannot find it A to Z

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-forums-website-questions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

 

Halifax :D

Paid in full £2295

 

MBNA:mad: 20/03/2008 settled in full out of court

 

Capital One:D

07/07/2007 Capital one charges paid in full £1666

19/01/2008 recovered PPI £2216 + costs

 

Littlewoods :-D

12/08/2007 write off £1176.10 debt.

 

JD Williams charges refunded in full £640

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Thanks Dpick,

Yes the dca (robinson way) does own the debt as they sent me a copy of the cca, so should i sar the dca and tell them that want to reclaim the charges from them that crap1 have added?

P.S this forum rocks..... cheers, xxorlsxx.

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You should reclaim the charges from cap one as they are the original creditor.

All help is merely my opinion only - please seek legal advice if you need to as I am only qualified in SEN law.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All,

Ran up a debt with Capital 1 and now a DCA are on to me, the problem is that although i made no payments to cap 1 they added charges, so now i want those charges taken off the debt before i make any arrangement to pay them off, as the DCA own the debt (and they do i checked ) do i SAR the DCA or CAP 1?

Thanks, XXORLSXX.

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I'm sure that you SAR the original creditor so that would be Cap1

 

Im not a debt expert so if i'm wrong someone will correct me :)

Any typos spelling mistakes are due to leprechauns in my keyboard they move the letters around sometimes (amended just for Bookie)

 

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Please Donate if you can - help CAG help others

 

I offer help and advice in good faith, based on my knowledge and experience. I am NOT a legal or financial expert. There are many CAG members and site team who are better qualified. Please do not make major decisions based on my advice alone.I do not give advice via P.M's. If anyone can correct my mistakes or improve on my advice, please do.

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Hi All,

Cap1 have passed on my debt to a dca who now own it ( i checked),

so im gonna S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) cap1 and pay the dca off, can anyone give me the address of Cap1 to send the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)?

And also, im gonna pay by P.O. do i make it payable to capital one bank?

cheers xxorlsxx.

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Hi all

Ive just got the address of Capital one so i can sar them, i had to laugh when i found out that their address(loxley house) is linked to englands favourite outlaw Robin Hood who folklore has it stole from the rich and gave to the poor......the irony eh..

LOL xxorlsxx

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You may have to make it payable to the DCA (does it say anything on the letter ?....also are there some excessive penalty charges which have been added to the account which you could claim back ?

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

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You need to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) Capital one, and make it payable to Cap 1.

 

Here is the address you need.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/19550-capital-one-data-protection.htmlu

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Ive never seen a statement from them as i was out of the country, but the original debt was £200 and the dca wants £650 so i'd guess that they(cap1) have certainly added charges. Thanks for the link Sea-sidelady.

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OK are you able to scan/photo it and post it up on here for some opinion ? (obviously cross out all the personal details, account numbers etc)...not sure exactly about what happens if they find it after the prescribed time...

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

 

I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

 

IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.

Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.

If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.

 

Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/9-forum-rules-please-read.html

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Hi 42man,

Thanks for your quick reply, unfortunately i dont have a scanner but i can get my hands on a camera so i'll take a pic and post it, i must say though that the copy of the cca looks kosher and it has my signature on it, my problem with them is really their notice of assignment letter wich is just a letter on their own headed paper saying 'this letter acts as the notice of assignment' I thought that a notice of assignment was a letter from the creditor to the dca giving them the legal right to collect the debt? am i wrong?

Cheers...

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Part of the procedure is that the original creditor must send you a letter saying the debt had been assigned to....(DCA)....I believe that there have been a few legal cases on here where the case has been thrown out because one wasn't sent....you would also never see the assignment from the OC to the DCA.....

 

As for the CCA this might help you...

 

reproduced courtesy of Peter Bard...

 

CCA RULES FOR PRESCRIBED TERMS

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* repayments – see Q8.9.

* rate of interest – see Q8.6

 

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

They need to keep documents such as a copy of the agreement for 6 years after the closure of the account to comply with money laundering legislation.

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Prescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

 

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

 

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

 

BC and D Apply

 

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

  • Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
  • The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
  • There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
  • And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

 

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

 

A and B apply

 

For a Hire Agreement

 

B is Applicable

 

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreemens executed before that date.

  • Haha 1

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

 

I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

 

IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.

Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.

If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.

 

Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/9-forum-rules-please-read.html

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Hi All,

I've got my cca from Cap1 but i've heard that the cca must have certain info on it to make it binding, one of these is the credit limit, my cca just says 'THE CREDIT LIMIT WILL BE DETEMINED BY US FROM TIME TO TIME AND NOTICE OF IT WILL BE GIVEN BY US TO YOU'. I thought that it should have the limit on the cca in £s.

Any ideas?

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Hi sorry they just need to have a sentence of that form for the credit limit.

 

dpick:)

cannot find it A to Z

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-forums-website-questions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

 

Halifax :D

Paid in full £2295

 

MBNA:mad: 20/03/2008 settled in full out of court

 

Capital One:D

07/07/2007 Capital one charges paid in full £1666

19/01/2008 recovered PPI £2216 + costs

 

Littlewoods :-D

12/08/2007 write off £1176.10 debt.

 

JD Williams charges refunded in full £640

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All,

after a dca wanted me to pay them what i owe to cap1 as they owned the debt (the dca owned it) plus the disproportionate charges cap1 had added, i S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'d cap 1 for the details so i could pay the dca off using this money, i have now recieved notice that the dca has passed back the debt to cap1, has anyone got any idea why this has happened, could it be that cap1 has bought the debt back because i was going to get the charges refunded and pay the dca? or is there a more sinister motive? do you think they may offer me a deal? Any help or thoughts would be great, Cheers, xxorlsxx.

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The DCA never owned the debt, whatever they told you. It is still owned by Cap1.

Egg/CapQuest 2 - CCA sent 12/04/07 ****RESULT****

Barclays Bank/Lowell 1 - CCA sent 12/04/07 ****RESULT****

 

Halifax/CapQuest 1 - CCA sent 12/04/07 SD issued ****WON with COSTS****

 

Barclaycard/Cabot - CCA Sent 12/04/07 Unenforcable Application Form

Smile/Lowell 2 - CCA sent 12/04/07 Unenforcable Application Form

NatWest/Fredrickson International - CCA sent 12/04/07 No Reply

 

Halifax/1st Credit - CCA sent 17/04/07 No CA but Threats from 1st Credit & Connaught! - Still Nothing but still chasing!

 

Student Loans Company/CapQuest 3 - CCA sent 11/06/08 - No Reply.

Lowell 3 - Ignored them went over their heads to Capital One

 

Halifax - S.A.R - sent 17/04/07 Completely incomplete!

Halifax 2 - S.A.R - sent 11/06/08 - Scant Info

Capital One - S.A.R - sent 11/06/08 - Scant Info

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