Skillstrain/Scheidegger - time for you to fight back

[skillskiller]

Malky1888

 

Their seem to be two threads on CAG forum dedicated to Skills Train so I will repost my last two here.

 

Posted 4/3/2010

 

I am in the process of getting a refund from Skills Train and having my credit agreement, with Barclays Partner Finance, nullified.

 

I originally was inspired by stexposed through the website

 

www.collativelearning.com/SKILLSTRAIN%20[problem]%20&%20REFUND.html

 

I like so many others were mis-sold course(s) that are over-priced, falsely endorsed with materials that are out-dated, poorly written and in some cases no authority has been granted from the examination body to advertise or publish study material on their behalf, due to Skills Train not being fully endorsed.

 

I started my campaign to get a refund with contacting my local Trading Standards office, these are the people who should take any action on your belhalf as this is where the offence took place, however I gained some valuable information from Luton TS, in whose geographical area Skills Train trade, extracts of which I am posting below:

 

"Trading Standards authorities are separate bodies – it is not a national government service, so each authority will operate independently of each other. On occasion they may co-ordinate investigative work as long as it is legally permitted, but those decisions are left to individual authorities"

 

 

"I was suggesting that you sue the trader in the civil courts (prosecution is usually done in the criminal courts by state-authorised enforcement bodies) as the burden of proof is lower than for a criminal court. Additionally, there is no right to civil redress (refund etc) available under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regs, so you are best using the rights afforded by the Misrepresentation Act 1967 and the Supply of Goods & Services Act 1982."

 

As informed by stexposed 5 false endorsements, regardless of the over-pricing, poor materials etc., have been exposed so far but anybody taking a CompTIA course might be interested in extracts that have sent to me on 01/03/2010:

 

"The type of membership (associate membership) that Skillstrain currently have with CompTIA entitles them to use the CompTIA logo on their website and to take advantage of the membership benefits. With the current type of membership we do not vet the company and cannot vouch for the quality of their service, thus they are not endorsed by CompTIA

 

They are, on the other hand, currently going through the application process to join the CompTIA Authorised Partner Program. There are service quality checks in place during this application process, including making sure that they use CompTIA certified instructors and that the trainers have an instructors certification (Eg. MCT, CTT+). If their application is approved they would then be endorsed by CompTIA.

 

In reference to the courseware that they provide: if the books they provide are the most up to date versions from Prosoft and they are CAQC (CompTIA Authorised Quality Curriculum) stamped then they are CompTIA endorsed books. To the best of my knowledge, the most recent Project+ courseware from Prosoft/Compuprep is the 2009 edition."

 

Therefore we can deduce that Skills Train are not endorsed by CompTIA and the material supplied by Skills Train for CompTIA courses are not CAQC stamped and I am presuming that if this is the case, as it is, that providing illicit material would be a civil or possibly criminal offence.

 

I have recruited the support of a local councillor in this matter, perhaps you can do the same to get the TS office moving as fast as possible

 

There, of course will be the problem that the Credit compny will be threatening and demand payments regardless of any action you are taking against Skills Train and to date I have received a text message on my mobile and two letters demanding there mothly payments. So far I have ignored these threats but kept them informed, by sending duplicates of Recorded Delivery letters, to them. I have also asked Barclay Partner Finance if they vetted Skills Train, as they have so much adverse publicity, prior to accepting them as clients, To date they have not answered this query.

 

If I can be of any assistance just ask.

[skillskiller]

Posted 13/3/2010

 

 

Further to my posting on 04/03/2010 I have now received a response from CompTIA which will interest anybody who signed-up for a course where they are the examining body:

 

"The type of membership (associate membership) that Skillstrain currently have with CompTIA entitles them to use the CompTIA logo on their website and to take advantage of the membership benefits. With the current type of membership we do not vet the company and cannot vouch for the quality of their service, thus they are not endorsed by CompTIA.

 

They are, on the other hand, currently going through the application process to join the CompTIA Authorised Partner Program. There are service quality checks in place during this application process, including making sure that they use CompTIA certified instructors and that the trainers have an instructors certification (Eg. MCT, CTT+). If their application is approved they would then be endorsed by CompTIA.

 

In reference to the courseware that they provide: if the books they provide are the most up to date versions from Prosoft and they are CAQC (CompTIA Authorised Quality Curriculum) stamped then they are CompTIA endorsed books. To the best of my knowledge, the most recent Project+ courseware from Prosoft/Compuprep is the 2009 edition."

 

As you can see Skills Train are not endorsed by CompTIA and the course materials are not CAQC stamped.

 

Hope this information is of use.

[skillskiller]

Malky1888 - re-endorsements

 

Please read your email in the private messages section after you login.

[Malky1888]

False Standards claims 2. Displaying a trust mark, quality mark or equivalent without having obtained the necessary authorisation.

Have you bought products or services on the basis of a quality mark which you noticed and trusted?

If that quality mark turns out not to have been authorised then trader is acting unfairly and you can complain to the OFT even if you haven yet bought the item yet. If you have actually bought it then you may be able to sue in breach of contract.

 

 

 

 

I seen that on a regulations page it pretty much has skillstrain written all over it

 

 

a few weeks ago my local trading standards wrote to skillstrain about my issues and it took them a wee to write back saying that they had recieved their email and they would respond un full within 14 days, so far they haven't wrote back.

 

 

If for any reason the trading standards can't successfully pursue a refund, who would be the best place to write to?

[bonkers123]

Hi guys. theres another thread on skillstrain associates on "train4tradeskills problem" on this consumer forum...check it out

[Malky1888]

*** UPDATE *** Skillstrain have responded to TS

 

Afternoon Michael,

I did finally receive a reply last week from Skillstrain, and I did receive your email re Luton Trading Standards-as a matter of course I had already referred the details of your complaint to the officer based at Luton for his information. His comment was that having had the contract for 3 years + before questioning, you might well struggle to prove you were entitled to a refund, as court could deem you had clearly accepted the contract.

There are points they have not answered in their letter, so I will write again this week, and a few of the points they have provided some answers. I am in the office later tomorrow, so will try ringing you about 5.30, as easier to discuss in person.

Could you re-send me the OCR letter, as they did not address that logo at all in their reply.

Hopefully catch up tomorrow.

 

 

 

Few points haven't been answered? possibly where i've pointed out their breach of advertising regulations, can any1 argue with the fact that since i've signed up over 3 years ago then i might not be entitled to a refund? and even if so, should i definately be entitled to stop making any further payments? I will hear from TS when they phone back anyway but there are people on here who are more clued up about this sort of thing.

:-?

[bonkers123]

Malky188, see thread Train 4 Trade Skills problem on this forum, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/students/225825-train-4-trade-skills-5.html#post2878834 Train4tradeskills is the same waste of time group as skillstrain, scheidegger, train2game, etc. youll find a lot of recent information on there. as for trading standards, they are a waste of time as they are too lazy to do anything of any use really...its a bit like hard work to do their job really.

[Malky1888]

Malky188, see thread Train 4 Trade Skills problem on this forum, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/students/225825-train-4-trade-skills-5.html#post2878834 Train4tradeskills is the same waste of time group as skillstrain, scheidegger, train2game, etc. youll find a lot of recent information on there. as for trading standards, they are a waste of time as they are too lazy to do anything of any use really...its a bit like hard work to do their job really.

 

i spoke to TS over the phone last night and the lady says pretty much what she said in the email that i'd struggle to get a refund as i bought the course more than 3 years ago, im still £1100 outstanding and a start would be for that to be scrapped as i've recently lost my job, i've paid around £1800 all together, it would be a bonus if i could have that refunded as, all i've recieved for that was a case to keep my coursework in,4 books, a few cds, and some automated assessment results which i was supposed to beleive were tutor marked, i once emailed the "tutor" to point out a mistake in the javascript section of the course which was a misprint, this me had me goin over 1 page of code for over an hour trying 2 find out the problem and if it wasn't for me havin a mate who is doing a javascript/programming course i wouldnt have gotten past it, i forwarded him the file and he checked it over , corrected it and sent back, i never recieved a reply from any tutor, i could go on for a while sayin why i'm unhappy with the course, mainly ive paid far more than i feel i should've and don't want to pay anythin else:x

[Malky1888]

Ok, end of story with Trading Standards, i don't have enough evidence against skillstrain about false endorsements, because when i took out the course, skillstrain, at the time had an affiliation with the companies listed in the endorsements, Trading Standards have informed them they won't take the issue further, There is no way i want to continue doing the course as i've come across misprints in the material which has made the work extremely difficult for me, plus the material is apparently out of date, the £1800 i've paid so far is the most i've ever spent on anything, and still have over a grand to pay, in turn ive had 3 course books, a couple of cdroms, and some automated assessment results (Which i'm supposed 2 beleive are marked by a tutor), and no help from tutors when i've been struggling at points of badly written material, I had 2 rely on a friend who had been studying similar work with the "open university"

 

DON'T DO IT !!!!!!

[Scathe]

I've recently cancelled my direct debit for a skillstrain course that I signed up for back in 2008.

 

Back then, they had all sorts of logos on their literature and websites, and even videos, implying accreditation to various bodies which we now know they didn't actually have. I note that they are less keen on daubing logos on their website these days!

 

Trading standards say this isn't enough to get the course cancelled, which I find perplexing and bizaare, because according to "The Consumer

Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008" [and here I paraphrase]:

 

 

a) if it contains false information and is therefore untruthful.....or if it or its overall presentation in any way deceives or is likely to deceive the average consumer in relation to any of the matters.......even if the information is factually correct; and

 

b) it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

 

In my opinion Skillstrain falls foul in these areas. But I apparently need to show I've incurred a loss ie prove that the course materials were not sufficient to gain the qualification I applied for. This will be difficult, because although the course material is poor and outdated I guess it's feasible for someone to muddle through and gain a poor and outdated qualification.

 

I intend to stick to my guns and hope that the negative publicity generated from a court case would let me cancel the course.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Scathe

[Malky1888]

I'm gutted at hearing that i can do nothing but wait for the debt collector to get back in touch for me to start paying the outstanding £1100, i was told weeks ago that they would be in in touch soon, but not heard yet, to be honest i would settle for not paying another penny towards it, leaving the course alone, and just forgetting the fact that it's cost me £1800 to date, (sad i know as i've gained nothing other than some basic knowledge of the internet & web design) but knowing my luck they'll be on my case some day soon (if so then i hope it's once i've started working again)

[bonkers123]

Scathe and malky 1888. see link http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/students/225825-train-4-trade-skills-9.html

and read EVERY page where many individuals are going through the same problems with the skillstrain sister company train4tradeskills where there is a lot of information to help you and also see link

 

THE SKILLSTRAIN [problem] & HOW I GOT MY REFUND

for an individual who got ALL his money back

 

Im affraid Trading Standards arent very useful in any way...they dont like doing the job our tax money pays for.

[Malky1888]

i'll have a look thru that thread, but on the evidence i've gathered i wil not be able to challenge them for using false endorsements, not alll of the companies listed will write back to me, according to trading standards, when they contacted the ones which had responded to me, they were told that at the time of me purchasing the course, they did have an affiliation with scheidegger courses, therefore the endorsements were not false, its a pity i can't get a reply from microsoft as 1 of their team says on the watchdog clip that they have in no way approved their course and would be concerned about students paying for such out-of-date coursework.

I was impressed with the video on Collative Learning, how the fella managed to get a full refund, he was obviously well clued up on how to go about things, and it was thanks to his local trading standards team he got his refund, then again, he purchased the course in 2008 (at the time the companies logos should not have been used on the materials and not all the logos were the same as the ones on my course), but my course was purchased in 2006 when they apparently did approve the course

[Scathe]

I signed up in 2008, shortly before the airing of the watchdog report.

 

The watchdog report shows a promo video clip from skillstrain with a skillstrain lackey bawling about microsoft endorsements and accreditations.

I'm afraid it was this kind of glossy, professional-looking spiel that I fell for.

 

Sadly, it seems that for some reason claims of false endorsements don't hold any water [maybe I should just set myself up as a computer technician and daub microsoft and cisco logos on my van, despite having no qualifications?].

 

I'm hoping the prospect of more ultra-negative publicity will allow me to at least cancel the course, if not claim reimbursements.

[Malky1888]

I'm hoping the prospect of more ultra-negative publicity will allow me to at least cancel the course, if not claim reimbursements.

 

Snap !

The course is rubbish !!, before watching the watchdog report, did u ever suspect yourself that the "Tutor Marked Assignments" were automatically marked?

There's obviously a small set of comments which can be left after each correct/incorrect answer, and they're added automatically, that's why you have to use the multiple choice program on the cdrom and send in the saved file, if u send in a text file with the same answers their system won't recognise them as answers, whereas if a tutor had read them then they could mark them, the annoying thing is aswell, when u know fine that a computer system is marking your assessments, you would expect it to be done in a matter of minutes or even seconds, and your results posted onto the "Student World" section so you can view them, get your access code for the next section and get on with the course, but in some cases you're waiting almost a fortnight.

 

They should realise that they are selling these courses to people who are already clued up about how computers work and that they will be smart in realising that everything is automated

As for tutors, i was once stuck at the javascript section as there are some code erroprs in the printed code, which will not render in a browser once typed into the text/html file, when i posted a message to them to ask if there was a problem with that section and explained how long i had went over and over the same page for and it was wearing me out mentally, there was no reply from them, thankfully i knew someone who could help me as he had learned javascript in a course which he was studying.

[Ivyrefund]

Hi Malky1888, when did you apply for your course? i did mine in 2005 / 2006. let me know pse those who responded back to you about the endorsements. my email is . Thanks

 

For me i completed the damn course and paid all the fees, , major issue, its a worthless piece of paper. had been mislead from the beginning that i would get proffessional qualifications, not pay extra for them.

[pyrus555]

Hi all, well same as everyone else on the page i guess, havent carried on doing the course for about 2 years now but entered into an agreement with a debt collection agency in regards to the course fees, can anyone advise as to how they have gone about cancelling and recovering the monies paid ? any help gratefully recieved ;-)

[Scathe]

Well I haven't paid for 3 months and recently got a default notice which will be enforced if I don't pay within x days. This will obviously affect credit scores etc.

 

I wonder if anybody else has such issues and how they got round it. Tempted to cough up as I don't want it affecting credit rating.....

[dallinas]

I feel like a complete Mug, I have paid up for a Comp tia N+ /cisco course nearly finished the first section, then realised I didn't have the time to complete it due to other commitments. and planned to complete it later, that was 3 years ago Now I understand it ain't worth the paper it is printed on! I seem to remember the network coursework was a bit out of date at the time and therefore it is not fit for purpose. As I have paid up I am unsure as to my rights on a refund. I have only done the Comptia N+ part of the course.

[Telemicus]

@dallinas, does your sales material that you were presented with at the start of the course have any logos or endorsements by Cisco? I have already spoken to Cisco and have been told that Skillstrain were never approved to carry ANY of their logos or trademarks for ANY course.

[karmic]

Hi

 

I signed up for the CISCO ccna/ccnp course in september 2006, I still have all the original bumf from the sales guy. I have finished paying for the course but actually havent done any of the exams, have had 2 kids + full time job + divorce in the last couple of years. After being made redundant last week I have been trying to get on with my skills train course and have found all of this about them. Would the fact that I have finished paying be against me if I pursued skills train to recover my money for being mis-sold the training course ?

 

karmic

[Telemicus]

Hi Karmic,

 

If the course material has the CISCO, Microsoft endorsements then you will still have a case for mis-selling because the Financial Ombudsman Service will consider anything up to six years old. However, you still need to start the process with Skillstrain and (or later) the financial company. You can state the fact that the course material implys that it is approved by or affiliated with CISCO. At the same time you should contact CISCO UK and ask them the question if the course is approved by or affiliated with CISCO at the time of sale. They will reply that it is not. Also, have you applied for or requested your exam details? I believe there is/was a time limit for completing the course - I found out that I had already paid for the exams as part of the course fee but Skillstrain are not providing the exams and wanted me to pay again and submit the receipts - in other words if I never did the exams they could keep that money. Check what the status is with your exams and if the same applies you can at least recover the exam fees from them. Hope this helps.

[karmic]

Telemicus thanks for that advice

[NJO_89]

Hello All

 

Ive just finished the CIW course and WTF? was that! I requested the examination details ...what help that is. While waiting for it to arrive and thought of browsing the net for some successful stories of people getting jobs with ST. BUT came across skillstrain ** edited ** reading the threads & forums I felt sick. Looking back most of the course material is like GCSE standard and stuff I already know. One chapter was on how routers and the internet work.... When I got to the Abode dreamweaver section I thought great I can actually design something... but more boring ****e ...(excuse language) Is this what web designers learn from.

 

So any way finished the dam course don't think I can get a refund at this point so VERY PIVV OFF. So shall I just go to the exam and get a pointless piece of pape.

 

Something needs to happen to these companies

get them out of business

[Telemicus]

NJO_89. When did you start the course? Does your first workbook or any after that have the Microsoft / Cisco endorsements?