Bought used car - Mileage altered.

[pomella]

I bought a used car, private sale. However I later discovered when I did a MOT history check that the car had 135k in 2007 and then 62k in 2008. Also since discovered that the Renault service booked which is stamped with Renault is false.

 

The seller won't respond to my calls, and seems to no longer live at the address??? or so I am being told. He said he was selling the car for his sister-in-law. The car is not stolen and is registered with one previous owner.

 

I have been in touch with DVLA, NMR, Trading Standards and Police and seems there is nothing I can do........ even though in my mind the law seems to have been broken.

 

Seems the last resort is to go to the small claims court - just wondering if anyone has had a similiar experience.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing !!

[smvtuser]

How long ago did you buy it? Was it genuinely a private sale - have you checked the seller's story with the previous registered keeper?

[pomella]

I bought the car a week ago - I am waiting for the log book from DVLA but have sent in a request to get the registered owners address asap.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Hi, sorry for your misfortune.

 

From my own experience of a County Court claim...

 

The seller of my car altered the miles, lied about previous keepers, forged the service booklet and I actually had the car looked over at a garage who failed the mot of the car on seven different points and so it was unroadworthy. All of this was discovered after the event, some of which was only possible to do so.

 

However, I still lost the court claim.

 

Quite simply, the judge said it was a private sale and the moment I paid for the car all of it's problems were now mine.

 

He told me to always remember 'buyer beware' in the future.

 

Also, I would still argue that criminal acts were committed yet the police didn't want to know.

 

My advice-learn the lesson and move on however difficult it is to do.

[pomella]

I certainly have learned the lesson!! I will have the car looked over this week - and hopefully it won't end up cost a fortune. Don't think its worth going down the small claims route. Thanks for your advice.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

I think that's probably a wise choice pomella. It will save all the hassle and stress of a court case and, of course, the disappointment should you lose.

 

Although clearly you have been wronged, unfortunately, the law seems to be quite unsympathetic.

 

One has to be very careful when buying a used car privately.

 

Good luck.

[smvtuser]

I would still check the story with the previous keeper to ensure that the seller was not a trader. How was the car advertised?

[pomella]

I bought the car from ebay....... I will be in touch with previous owner as soon as I get that information form DVLA, thanks for all your comments.

[Cheslea Cruiser]

I bought a used car, private sale. However I later discovered when I did a MOT history check that the car had 135k in 2007 and then 62k in 2008. Also since discovered that the Renault service booked which is stamped with Renault is false.

 

The seller won't respond to my calls, and seems to no longer live at the address??? or so I am being told. He said he was selling the car for his sister-in-law. The car is not stolen and is registered with one previous owner.

 

I have been in touch with DVLA, NMR, Trading Standards and Police and seems there is nothing I can do........ even though in my mind the law seems to have been broken.

 

Seems the last resort is to go to the small claims court - just wondering if anyone has had a similiar experience.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing !!

 

We all hear about offences commited by dealers who falsify mileages or mis-describe vehicles but I can tell you ,from experience, that there is NOTHING you can do about it. I bought a vehicle from JTR Cars in Croydon and found several issues including the mileage. In fact over 60,000 had dissapeared. I went through the entire proceedure with consumer direct, Trading Standards, The county Court and bailiffs. I was told by the bailiffs that this dealer has a history of dodgy deals and there is several warrants of execution aginst him. The trader is STILL selling cars and people are STILL getting stitched up by him. If a buyer calls to complain he simply says" Hard luck, if you don't like it take me to court, there is nothing you can do about it" The enfuriating thing about all this is that HE IS RIGHT.

[sailor sam]

We all hear about offences commited by dealers who falsify mileages or mis-describe vehicles but I can tell you ,from experience, that there is NOTHING you can do about it. I bought a vehicle from JTR Cars in Croydon and found several issues including the mileage. In fact over 60,000 had dissapeared. I went through the entire proceedure with consumer direct, Trading Standards, The county Court and bailiffs. I was told by the bailiffs that this dealer has a history of dodgy deals and there is several warrants of execution aginst him. The trader is STILL selling cars and people are STILL getting stitched up by him. If a buyer calls to complain he simply says" Hard luck, if you don't like it take me to court, there is nothing you can do about it" The enfuriating thing about all this is that HE IS RIGHT.

 

I disagree. The law is pretty robust about car dealers and used correctly should protect the consumer. I can only think that in your case there was insufficient evidence against the trader to bring about a conviction. 'Clocking' is a criminal matter so did you involve the police and/or VOSA?

[sailor sam]

I bought the car from ebay....... I will be in touch with previous owner as soon as I get that information form DVLA, thanks for all your comments.

 

Have you gone through the relevant Ebay proceedure?

[Cheslea Cruiser]

I disagree. The law is pretty robust about car dealers and used correctly should protect the consumer. I can only think that in your case there was insufficient evidence against the trader to bring about a conviction. 'Clocking' is a criminal matter so did you involve the police and/or VOSA?

Sam, I know exactly what you are saying and I agree but .. I have a letter from the previous keeper stating that the mileage when she transferred the vehicle was 102,000miles and is prepared to go to court. I have the original advertisment clearly showing the misdescribed issues. I have a report from a vehicle specialist detailing the faults. I have a county Court Judgement in my favour. This whole fiasco has gone as far as it can go via all the right procedures. The bailiffs have been instructed and have got nowhere. The police, at both Southend and Croydon, are not interested and state that clocking is a civil matter. Please believe me, this has been going on for 8 months. I am not interested in the money I have lost and am more interested in protecting future buyers. As I said before, the bailiffs have several warrants outstanding and the trader is still selling dodgy cars.

[sailor sam]

The physical action of clocking a car is not in itself illegal. However under the Consumer Protection Act 2007 misleading commercial practices are considered to be an offence. This means that any business knowingly selling or offering for sale a used motor vehicles with altered or reduced odometer readings is breaking the law. All you have to do is prove it. Obviously you have the proof in your case so what does your solicitor say about it?

[Rooster-UK]

Please note that this thread was abandoned by the original poster in February 2008! Nearly 2 years ago.

 

I don't think that you'll get much response to any questions addressed to the OP.

[Cheslea Cruiser]

The physical action of clocking a car is not in itself illegal. However under the Consumer Protection Act 2007 misleading commercial practices are considered to be an offence. This means that any business knowingly selling or offering for sale a used motor vehicles with altered or reduced odometer readings is breaking the law. All you have to do is prove it. Obviously you have the proof in your case so what does your solicitor say about it?

Sam, I have not directly instructed a solicitor, my first action was to take advice from Consumer Direct who passed the information on to Trading Standards. Trading Standards advised me to take out a summons against JTR Cars to recover my costs. the Small Claims Court issued a summons to which the dealer did not reply. The court gave me the option of instructing a bailiff which I did. the Bailiff stated that this dealer is known to them and has a history of similar cases for which there are several outstanding warrants of execution. I have pointed out to both the county court and the citizens advice solicitor that , to quote 'Sold As Seen' is an offence under the sale of goods act as is misrepresenting an item and selling vehicle with a falsified mileage. All parties have told me that although the dealer has technically broken several laws it is for me to pursue any further action at my own expense and it's for me to prove that the dealer knowingly sold the vehicle with a false mileage and he intentionally misrepresented the item offered for sale. The Bailiff has informed me that, although the court has found in my favour and that JTR Cars owes £2,500, they can only go after Louis Lennon who is proprietor of JTR Cars who submitted and payed for the advert in Aoutotrader. They have told me that Louis Lennon legally owns NOTHING. He has a long history of dodgy dealing, he has been through all this before, he knows the law, he is still trading and will continue to do so. To be honest it just isn't worth throwing any more money at this situation given the amount involved in the first place. What I AM going to do is to embark on a personal mission to discredit this crook in any way I can to dissuade as many potential victims as possible. Lastly, I have contacted Autotrader who say they cannot discuss it due to data protection and are not responsible for the contents of the advert. This means that the dealer has protection from the media which he uses to conduct his activities.

[Cheslea Cruiser]

One more thing that I think is worth a mention and that is the term 'Sold As Seen'

This is information from trading standards :- "If you bought it form a dealer then there is no such thing as 'sold as seen' - even if you both agreed to such a term and the conditions were put up in huge neon lights.The dealer cannot contract out of the Sale of Goods Act 1979. There is an implied warranty in the act that the dealer has good title to sell the goods, that the goods should be free from minor defects, be fit for the purpose intended, and has various other implied terms.Under the Consumer Transactions (Restrictions on Statements) Order 1976 it's a criminal offence for a motor trader to use a statement such as 'sold as seen':

Now take a look at JTR Cars | Quality Used Car Sales in Surrey | Homepage, on the front page at the bottom of the lead text are the words " CARS ARE SOLD AS SEEN"

So what can be done about it ? NOTHING.. trust me I have tried.

[supasnooper]

Haxe you tried pursuing this route ? - http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n349_0302.pdf

[sailor sam]

Lets hope some others come in here and offer their ideas. The way this dealer can escape the SOGA seems ridiculous to me.

[Conniff]

The next road is bankruptcy

[Kraken1]

what a peculiar stock list. now, do you go for the ferrari, or 12 year old ka?

[Cheslea Cruiser]

One other course of action that has been suggested is to report the falsified mileage to VOSA. VOSA state that they would only be concerned if there was proof of an MOT test that did not conform to their standards. I will make an offer to anyone who thinks they can get a result. The court has agreed that JTR Cars owes me just over £2,500. I will be happy to get back £1500 so there is a grande in it for anyone that can get a result. Don't forget that I already have a court decision and I've done all the background work. Best of luck

[sailor sam]

If you want to give this guy some bad publicity, why not contact the Watch Dog TV programme?

 

When you say that the guy owns NOTHING, then who owns the cars he is selling? Or is he just a broker?

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[Cheslea Cruiser]

Sam, I have no idea who owns what, all I do know is that the bailiffs cannot remove goods or assets because nothing is registered to him or legally owned by him. As mentioned previously, Louis Lennon and JTR Cars are known to the bailiffs and they have several warrants of execution against his business. We are not talking about a car dealer who pulls the occasional dodgy deal .. This individual is a cheating liar with no morals and no regard for the law .. He told me from day one "You bought the car and if you don't like go to Trading Standards or summons me but you'll be wasting your money". As for Watchdog -- been there and done that -- they are only interested in big name retailers and businesses which make for better viewing figures.