Total Victory against UKPC!

[Doctor Sinister]

Greetings all, first post here.

 

 

 

I am writing to inform you ladies and gents of a TOTAL VICTORY that I have achieved against those rogues at UKPC.

 

I have, in my hands, a letter from UKPC WITHDRAWING their charge unequivocally!

 

Yes, I'm aware that this is unusual having perused the postings here and I feel quite pleased!

 

I received a PCN at a Retail Park in Farnborough, Hampshire, having visited a particular store there. The charge was for "leaving the site" which I did not deny, however on the basis that UKPC failed to identify the driver of the car and were attempting to hold me as the owner liable, I immediately spotted through some research on the net that this was unenforceable.

 

Incidentally, the car park in question was 99% empty at the time I visited it and I objected to being charged on principle, especially as you HAVE to leave the site to get to any cash point facilities!

 

In order to achieve my aims of not paying the charge, I embarked on a highly aggressive strategy of communication. I immediately wrote to UKPC, the day I received the PCN and before they had ever written to me and demanded that they reverse the charge in a very lengthy letter. I highlighted several areas where I considered their charge to be unwarranted, unenforceable and illegal.

 

This gave me an immediate advantage because as soon as the charge did arrive in the post, I was able to accuse UKPC of ignoring my correspondence which would have placed them on the back foot in the event of any subsequent legal proceedings.

 

On receipt of the charge itself, I wrote a second, even longer letter, accusing them of failing to negotiate in good faith, ignoring my correspondence and it was at this stage that I began to CC my letters to various organisations, including the MD of the store I had been visiting at their head office. I argued that the actions of UKPC would cost the store future sales. I also argued that they were potentially complicit in the illegal activities of UKPC on the basis that the UKPC website indicated that their customers get a commission from each parking ticket they award!

 

I also informed UKPC that if they failed to respond to ANY or ALL of the points I was raising, that this would constitute an acceptance of my appeal and invalidate their charges. I finally informed them that I would be charging THEM for MY time in dealing with the matter. This put the onus on them to reply to all the legal issues I had raised, to which I knew they had no response and to which I knew they would not respond.

 

I received the standard one-line response, to which I immediately replied and indicated that on the basis that they had failed to answer each of my points in turn, that this implied acceptance of my appeal.

 

A week later, with no reply, I wrote to them again and suggested that their failure to respond within a timescale I had set was unacceptable and that I would be drawing all of this information to the Court in the event of litigation.

 

The next letter I got from them was longer, but it was still a standard reply which still failed to answer my relevant points and which still maintained their position. They also said they would not write to me again - I don't know if this was a sign that I was wearing them down or not, but that evening was quite bleak for me and I very nearly paid up there and then as they had extended my period for paying the lower charge.

 

And then I found this site.

 

It transpired that in fact the model you lay out here had been one very roughly followed by me, I had made all the relevant points but my correspondence was probably longer than it should have been. But by using the invaluable information here I was able to start quoting large swathes of legalese at UKPC and I sent them a 5-page letter warning them of dire consequences should they fail to reply.

 

However, as armed as I was with a new sense of resolution from this very site, the major breakthrough came when I got a letter from the store informing me that they too were not happy with the actions of UKPC but that the matter was out of their hands, appointed as they were by a managing agent for the site. The store mentioned that they had raised previous concerns in the past. They gave me the details of the managing agent for the site.

 

I could now attack UKPC and the managing agent on the grounds that the actions of UKPC were causing some embarrassment to the store itself. I.E. the actions of the managing agent’s agents were causing loss of sales for their customers. I demanded that the illegal actions of UKPC merited a withdrawal of the charge. I repeated my line to the managing agent – that they might be complicit in the illegal activities of UKPC as they were potentially the recipients of a commission (based on the UKPC’s OWN website) and insisted that they ask for the charge to be withdrawn (again, UKPC’s website indicates that their clients can do this).

 

Also, at this stage I was CC'ing no less than NINE people into my correspondence. I CC'd my letters to the local newspaper, the local MP, the BPA, the MD of the store at their head office, the customer relations lady at the store's head office who had replied to me, the landlord of the retail park, the local Trading Standards office, the BBC Watchdog program and the Hampshire Constabulary. To be honest, I was rather enjoying myself and looking forward to a day in Court I knew would probably never come.

 

Two days after this I received one final letter from UKPC demanding the money again - and it was here that I followed the strict advice of this site and I sent the standard "Cease and Desist" letter.

 

Today I have had three letters in the post.

 

1) A letter from UKPC withdrawing the charge in light of the comments I made.

2) A letter from the managing agent of the site indicating that they will ask UKPC to withdraw the charge (but they already have).

 

3) A letter from the BPA indicating that they are investigating the matter.

 

The upshot of this is that I believe my experiences demonstrate that if you shout loud enough and make enough counter-threats to UKPC they WILL back down. If you engage their customers in the correspondence and threaten to name them in any subsequent legal proceedings, they WILL back down. If you allege harassment and accuse them of claiming money by deception, they WILL back down.

 

These people can be beaten.

 

I am now sorely tempted to send them an invoice for my time on the basis that they have never answered this point and for compensation generally. By their own twisted logic, surely this implies acceptance of my terms under contract? What do you think? I've got the letter drafted - it even says if they pay me within 14 days I'll reduce the amount I'm claiming. Too cheeky?

 

Dr. S.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I am now sorely tempted to send them an invoice for my time on the basis that they have never answered this point and for compensation generally. By their own twisted logic, surely this implies acceptance of my terms under contract? What do you think? I've got the letter drafted - it even says if they pay me within 14 days I'll reduce the amount I'm claiming. Too cheeky?

 

Dr. S.

 

I would take guidance from an authority on the matter.

He who lives by the sword shall die by the the sword.

Matthew 26:52

[adamna]

Love it, go for the offer of a discount and let them see how it feels. What have you got to lose? (Double your costs first of course)

[pin1onu]

I love it when someone takes a well aimed swipe at these companies and it hits home. Shame we'll never here about the BPAs investigations (not that I'd expect much - Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)

 

Please let us know if you get some money out of them. It may teach these companies a lesson if people start stinging them for compensation.:grin:

[stopukpc]

Got hit by UKPC. It's a retail park which me and my girlfriend

park in. We went into the stores the car park is directly for. She wanted

to browse more in them. I got bored went back to the car and then decided to pop to the next retail nearby park on foot. Went back to the car, and then off to another spot to get some cash out. It's the kind of thing I've done now and then from that car park in the past.

 

There's always loads of spaces and I've felt the freedom and flexibility of parking they give is designed to attract people to park there and use the stores.

 

There are no fences on the car park (also means its

easy to miss the signs and walk off) and people do leave the

car park on foot to pop back a bit later. People were doing it

that day.

 

Got back to the car to find a ticket for £45 (to double if not paid). Turns out there are some poorly placed signs been put up recently (high up lamposts and stuff like that) and UKPC now control the car park - and one of the clauses says that the owner of the vehicle cannot leave the site. UKPC are waiting to spot you walk off site and smack you. Supposed to be a nice Sunday outing, turns into a horrible experience and hit by some psuedo big brother of dodgy legality.

As far as I am concerned it has always been a car park which let you park with plenty of free parking. I would never knowingly not pay to park when I must - and why would i risk such a fine? This car park is not a pay one even now. What's their problem? Why enforce this? It's just pure profiteering. I've never seen such restriction of movement placed on customers who are obviously using the stores.

 

A part of me thinks pay up because I do not want the stress of this dragging on with these bullies and let them get to me by thinking about them any more, but I also think it is a lot of money to pay, and I think they manufacture it so people get caught (e.g the poor signs). So not happy. Seem to be some experts on here in dealing with this bunch, any recommendations / easy solutions?

Also is there anyone actually regulating the kind of signs put up in these

car park, the size of the fines, and the shady processes of these racketeers? Or is it up to us comsumers to band together to try and get someone to hear? I understand parking should be controlled but it seems like these companies exploit and frighten decent people, and profit from it.

Really makes you worry where you can park these days without someone smacking you for some technicality.

 

Doctor Sinister I just read your post and I think it's the same car park as you.

Do you have the address to write too as like you I thought

the best policy was possibly to write to them asap too, and the best template to use.

[patdavies]

and one of the clauses says that the owner of the vehicle cannot leave the site.

 

If it actually says owner, then they are on a hiding to nothing. How can they show that the owner even knows the car is there?

[Doctor Sinister]

To stopukpc - is it the Solartron Retail Park - where Maplins etc. are? If so, I'll be pleased to give you the information.

 

Dr. S.

[stopukpc]

yes Solartron. yes Maplins and I often go in there. Info would be good thanks.

The signs must have gone up recently and I think they are very hard to spot. Intentionally. In the past people are used to going to Maplins / MFI whatever and then wandering over to B&Q. I think they are going to catch a lot of people that do not deserve it because the signs are much too small. I can understand they do not want people leaving their car for hours but I was gone for about 15 minutes from the site, what's their problem? £45 is a nasty shock for people not realising what they have done.

[Doctor Sinister]

Sorry stopukc, didn't see your reply until today as I forgot to check!

 

I'll send you a personal message.

 

Incidentally...the Police are apparently investigating my complaint now.

 

Dr. S.

[Doctor Sinister]

My revenge continues apace - letters today from the Farnborough MP promising to investigate - and indicating that this is not the first complaint he has had about this car park, and from Trading Standards too.

 

Dr. S.

[adamna]

Well done!

[Lassitude]

Congratulations!

 

This gives me a good feeling about my 'invoice'. My alleged breach of contract happened on the same retail park in Farnborough for exactly the same reason...does it have a Maplins on the park?

 

You can follow my thread here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/127879-private-ticketing-company-ticket.html

 

I found this site and have followed the templates all the way so far. They've handed it over to their debt collection people now, but they are not getting a penny out of me for this.

 

If I do go to court (which is highly unlikely) it would be handy to have a case similar to mine where they have backed down. So if you are willing to share your experience in a little more detail if mine goes all the way I would appreciate it.

 

In any case it would be great to get UKPC kicked out of that car park if at all possible. It irritates me to thing that so many people will have caved in and paid them rather than fight it.

 

thanks

 

Chris

[pin1onu]

My revenge continues apace - letters today from the Farnborough MP promising to investigate - and indicating that this is not the first complaint he has had about this car park, and from Trading Standards too.

 

Dr. S.

Keep up the good work.

[ThisIsRacket]

"... at this stage I was CC'ing no less than NINE people into my correspondence. I CC'd my letters to the local newspaper, the local MP, the BPA, the MD of the store at their head office, the customer relations lady at the store's head office who had replied to me, the landlord of the retail park, the local Trading Standards office, the BBC Watchdog program and the Hampshire Constabulary."HOW did you do CCd them? By email, or posted out multiple letters?I am thinking of doing the same, could do with your advice.

[DB_SamX]

Glad to hear Dr. Sinister.

 

You may have heard in the (camberley?) Star, that car park made the front page with lots of people complaining. I even wrote in but my letter didn't get published, but others' did. ANd yeah, I did read that the car park owner and other higher up parties are looking at the cases.

[papershark]

Well Done Dr Sinister. I cant tell you how much your story and the others that have suffered the horrible UKPC has given me a boost and pushed me to fight this retched little company. at the moment they have passed my alleged debt on to collection agency who i am informing as to the disputed nature of this debt. very soon i will be complaining to police about this... it makes me sick that company thinks that it can harass people like this.

[andychurchill]

Hah, I know this is an old thread, but is precisely the sort of approach I wanted to try, but have been warned against doing by many on here, because it's not worth it, and easier to just ignore them, but it's the principle of it that makes me want to go ahead anyway.

[londoncass]

Looks like a lot of stamps! Royal Mail makes a profit these days, they don't need any more help!

[andychurchill]

Maybe you could just email them your letter instead?

 

"The right info" website lists 2 email addresses?

 

UK Parking Control Ltd | TheRightInfo.co.uk

 

 

[email protected]

[email protected]

 

I found another reference to [email protected], but I very much doubt that's worth sending emails to, because we all know appeals just get denied

[buzby]

Of course the other argument is by writing and treating ther correspondence as something you feel are worth fighting for, gives them delusions of self-worth which are not justified.

 

The useful 'sharpnel' of involving companies that DO take customer experience seriously, is what I believe was the successful tactic - opening it up from a PPC/Driver battle to one where it became a many-to-one problem, the one eing the PPC. This is something they don't handle well.

[andychurchill]

Of course the other argument is by writing and treating ther correspondence as something you feel are worth fighting for, gives them delusions of self-worth which are not justified.

 

The useful 'sharpnel' of involving companies that DO take customer experience seriously, is what I believe was the successful tactic - opening it up from a PPC/Driver battle to one where it became a many-to-one problem, the one eing the PPC. This is something they don't handle well.

 

agreed - and if you're sending correspondence by email, then it's far easier and cheaper to CC other parties

[doctorrupert]

I have just received a 'charge certificate' from UKPC for 'Vehicle owner left site'.

Following advice found here I plan to contest the charge.

Please advise me of contacts and other helpful responses that will support my case.

For example from Hampshire Constabulary, Rushmoor District Council, Trading Standards.

[DBC]

I have just received a 'charge certificate' from UKPC for 'Vehicle owner left site'.

Following advice found here I plan to contest the charge.

Please advise me of contacts and other helpful responses that will support my case.

For example from Hampshire Constabulary, Rushmoor District Council, Trading Standards.

 

Don't waste your time and money. Just ignore any correspondence from the company and don't contact them.

 

The police will not help as this is a civil matter, and Trading Standards will probably tell you to pay up and then contest the charge.

[londoncass]

don't bother contesting ... just ignore it. What the drivers of your car do is not a problem for you "the DVLA owner of the car" have to worry about!!

[letshelp]

I have just received a 'charge certificate' from UKPC for 'Vehicle owner left site'.

 

How do they know it was the 'vehicle owner'? Do they say?

 

Following advice found here I plan to contest the charge.

 

It is your time and money but the advice is not to engage them, that's what hurts them the most.

 

Please advise me of contacts and other helpful responses that will support my case.

For example from Hampshire Constabulary,

 

Police will not be interested as it is a civil matter.

 

Rushmoor District Council, Trading Standards.

 

More wasting of your time and money, they are all aware of the ppc problem and have been for years they have chosen to do nothing, I cannot see that position changing anytime soon.

 

regards