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No nothing was signed, the 2 cheques are being covered by money going into my account that is part of the reason they were post dated.

We are a ltd company and are nearly back on track this was one of my next debts to get paid.

I was thinking about letting the first cheque go through and then stopping the second and paying only what is owed on the original debt and costs.

Problem is, that from experience, the bailiff company will usually take thier costs first and then the clients.

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this is only my opinion(and I'm not sure if you legally can ) but if it was me i would pay the creditor direct

then only pay the bailiffs when you have a full breakdown of there charges and you are happy that the charges are correct

 

the supplier will be last to get his money because you are correct the bailiffs take there money first if the supplier is a small firm they would probably be happy with some of the money sooner rather than later

 

and if you not happy with the bailiff charges and you find out the charges are unlawful you can file a form 4 complaint and let the judge decide if the charges are lawful

as i say only a thought and it might put you on a good footing with the supplier and you may be able to use them again

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stop the second two payments now as thay can still cash them even if thay are post dated and thay will and that means more charges from them and the bank

ok if it was me i would let the first one go then its time to get back in touch with them and tell them that things have not gone to plan and you need to reduce your payments in order to keep trading do this by letter and i think i would also tell them that there fee can go where the sun does not (well you know what i mean)please dont do what i have in the past and pay all the debt too quickley stretch it out as long as you can and when thay agree a payment plan just to remind them the interest stops now

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Guest Happy Contrails

Reading between the lines, the debt appears to be a CCJ and was transferred up to the High Court for enforcement and the bailiff is a High Court Enforcement Officer.

 

I don't think HCEO's can be complained about on a Form 4. Unlike parking tickets and council tax, an HCEO do not need to be certificated because they do not have a power to enter a property without permission. Their power is similar to a common debt collector.

 

If an HCEO is cheating with his fees then the complaint should be directed to police under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. Just take the document showing the fee amount and the CCJ amount and print a hardcopy of County Court Fees Order (Amended 1994) 1982. The law says the bailiff's fees for collecting an unpaid CCJ over £125 is £45. I assume nothing was signed and no goods were transported using a vehicle. The bailiff is committing a fraud over £800!

 

If the debt was pronounced in the High Court then the law prescribing bailiffs fees is Schedule 3 of Regulation 13 of The High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004. This doesn't apply in this case because the debt being collected is a CCJ and not a High Court Writ.

 

Come to an arrangement with the creditor and file a complaint against the bailiff with police.

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Thanks everybody, it was a ccj but when I couldn't pay it on time it went to the high court.

Funny thing is that I looked up the regulations on Sherforces website Regulatory Information

and then called them to say that the charges were not as shown on the site and they told me it had nothing to do with what was written in the regs

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The other thing that i forgot to mention was that i called The Law society as it says at the top they are regulated by them, the Law society said "I don't think so, not that I know of"

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Guest Happy Contrails

Sherforce is quoting prescribed fees for High Court Writs, your debt is a CCJ.

 

You don't get a parking ticket bailiff charging fees according to the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 when the law prescribing fees for unpaid tickets is the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs)(Amended 2003) Regulations 1993.

 

The HCEO Regs 2004 is irrelevant and if anyone tells you otherwise commits an offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act.

 

You have also indicated the bailiff is saying they are authorised and regulated by the Law Society, they are purporting to be a solicitor and that is an offence under Section 20 of the Solicitors Act 1974.

 

It looks like you are dealing with cowboys.

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Right, I've now read the letter whivh the bailiff gave me, which is actually printed off the internet, as I said, i never recieved a first letter.

It states that my goods are in the custody of the enforcement officer and cannot be removed, sold or disposed of. this will remain the position until the debt is settled.

The only exceptions are those under section 99, scedule 7, which are tools, vehicles and other equpment necesssary to myself in my employment, business or vocation.

As this is a business debt, this covers everything we have, am I right?

 

So can an HCEO take goods and would all of my business equipment be safe?

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Guest Happy Contrails

Disregard any advice given by a bailiff, its usually false or misleading.

 

If you have not signed anything then no levy is effected and the goods are still yours to dispose. Bailiffs cannot seize tools of your trade or equipment that enables you to carry on your normal course of business.

 

Can you tell me:

 

1. What the actual CCJ amount is

2. Whether the Order provides that interest is payable by you? (yes/no)

3. The date the CCJ was made

4. How much have you paid the creditor and the bailiff so far?

5. Have any of your goods been moved by a bailiff using a vehicle?

 

And

 

1. Has a bailiff entered your property without causing damage to it?

2. Have you signed a document, and if so, what was it you signed & do you have a copy?

3. Is your business a Ltd company or sole trader?

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hi there

 

i am also seeking the same

sherforce have just taken 2 of my vans for a debt thats not even mine

the bailiff turned up at my door and it was answerd by a 15 year old who is registerd disabled and is almost blind thay was told that it was full of goods as we was just moving it also had our tools on and the baliff turned round and said well you have two mins to empty it or i will take it anyway.

so i have not been able to work for three months as thay also have my tools.

 

points of complaint

 

1)to tell a blind child unload it or we take it

2)to then leave him sat in the garden crying

3)to take our goods for our house ie things left from decesed family

4)not showing any ID at all at any time

5)filling me with pure bull s--t and lies

6)not one letter or phone call answerd

 

and the debt is not even in my name or mine

and thay have proof of this

 

i intend to stop this hapening to anyone else and fast

 

i will give you all the help you need as i have time on my hands now

 

kind regards

hi have just read your thread was the only person to speak with the bailiff your son and did they reveal what the debt was about to him ?? if so you can complain about them as regards to your son being a miner and they are not aloud to talk to children also if he reviled anything about the debt to him I'm pretty sure you can either have the debt passed back or nill and voided as they are not aloud to give out any info to anyone else except to the debtor.
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yes he told him what it was for, and yes he was the only person to talk to him until the vans had already gone.

going to interpleader end of month (should be fun)when i tell the master just what has gone on and how many lies we have had from these, debt collecters-high court officers-bailiffs-solisitors and did i just read that thay are also debt managers and can i also add in one letter we got today that thay claim to be the solicitors to the high court officer,whats all that about??

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yes he told him what it was for, and yes he was the only person to talk to him until the vans had already gone.

going to interpleader end of month (should be fun)when i tell the master just what has gone on and how many lies we have had from these, debt collecters-high court officers-bailiffs-solisitors and did i just read that thay are also debt managers and can i also add in one letter we got today that thay claim to be the solicitors to the high court officer,whats all that about??

hi hope you having a good evening all now have just been speaking to a friend of mine she is a collector for certain credit comp and she told me that if a debt collector was to speak about another persons debt to anyone else apart from the debtor then the debt would be nil and void i hope this helps in some way best of luck to you.

oh and also have you tried doing a search on the public register for them it will tell you what they are registered for maybe that can shed some light on to the solicitor question for you.

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hi everyone

looked up on the register for this guy and he is not on there,however from what i can make out a registured high court officer can employ almost anybody as his collector,this guy could not of been an officer as he had black pants, black undertakers coat, and bright pink socks how is anyone going to take them serious looking like that (pink) socks

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hi everyone

looked up on the register for this guy and he is not on there,however from what i can make out a registured high court officer can employ almost anybody as his collector,this guy could not of been an officer as he had black pants, black undertakers coat, and bright pink socks how is anyone going to take them serious looking like that (pink) socks

the person who comes to collect has to registered to you can ask to see his certificate if he dont have one he is not allowed to collect by law hope this helps

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  • 2 weeks later...
SHERFORCE.

 

Ladies and gentleman.

 

Its is becoming obvious that these people are acting, and charging way beyond the realms of the law.

 

There appears to be two laws in operation here,

 

The one set out by goverment, and sanctioned by the Lord chancellors office, and,

 

The one that Sherforce think is "Their law"

 

I am making it my mission to challenge, and expose these people, for what they really are.

 

In order to gather as much information as possible, i would be grateful if you could provide on this thread, any information, or suggestions, that you think might be of relevance.

 

Please keep it as simple and direct as possible.

 

If your reply refers to a story, please post a link and i will collate the information from there.

 

I think its about time WE stood up to these, er, um, people.:wink:

 

I look forward to your suggestions.

 

Regards

 

Tony.

 

 

P.S. I dont think one loan voice will get very far here. I really need your help. Thank You.

I have a complaint against Sherforce and my other half has also registered a complaint againt them evolving fom the same issue. We have reams of paper that makes very interesting reading if you are interested. I await a reply from Chris Badger who gives his title as Complaint Officer for Sherforce.While allowing them the courtesey of responding to both complaints we are in the process of entering into litigation to recover over £2000 in excessive charges plus all costs that we have incured.

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Sherforce here too. Excess fees for something that as far as I can tell didn't even have a proper court case - just some secret tribunal. Taken to County Court for a rubber stamp then to the High Court for another rubber stamp.

 

Put some paper through the door saying they had a walking possession agreement, and according to the woman who went down to the communal doorway to speak to the first one, claimed to be a Sheriff. The Fake walking possession claim lists as an enforcement officer someone who is not of the register and the fees are as bogus as usual.

 

Reported as a crime under the Fraud Act.

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  • 5 months later...

I had a problem with sherforce but found a way around them.

 

A HCEO turned up at my house for a debt that was mine and my fault i had buisness problems i had burried my head in the sand. And I took them into my garden and sat down with them, obviously i wasnt going to let them into my house, they are not aloud in unless its a debt like council tax. They said they'd already seized my car as it was on my drive (wasnt my car so didnt care they cant take it) Firstly they cant seize your car if you can prove you need it for work. Secondly these guys are designed to intimidate so just hold your ground, take the letter hear what they have to then they'll be off. BE AWARE THEY CAN ENTER YOUR HOUSE IF THEY RETURN AND YOU'VE LEFT A WINDOW OPEN THEY CAN GET IN.

 

Anyway i then phoned up sherforce said i've had a visit and wanted to make an offer of a monthly payment. Now the people they have on the phones are asses and try to get you to pay more than you can afford and told me they dont have to forward this offer to the original company.....this is bull its their contractual obligation to inform their client of an offer in writing. So again stick to your guns and you'll be ok.

 

After this offer was excepted I looked at all the numbers. I'll list them below.

 

Original debt £1813.32

 

Sherforce Charges £1592.

 

Total debt £3400?????????? + 8% annual charge.charged daily

 

Now this confused me I had offered a small ammount per month one i wouldn't miss so i could just get the debt cleared over time but by applying this 8% it meant i was only paying back around £5 a month. and would take 56 years to pay back!!!!

 

So i called them back i had already requested a breakdown of the charge and as much as it annoyed me the courts have said they can charge as much as they like. Right so i asked does the original debitor get any of the interest? the answer was no.

 

This was what i'd been hoping for as they didnt own this debt and were profetiering from someones missfortune and from a debt they didnt own and were not passing on any of this interest to their client. I doubted they had told this to their client so i rang them.

 

I rang the company I owed money too. I explained my situation at they they were only getting £5per month and the company they had used for debt recovery was ripping me and them off. I finished off the call an awaited the reply.

 

About 20 minutes later the call came. the guy i spoke to was annoyed as he didnt know what they were doing, He told me to deal with him direct and that he had told sherforce to have no dealings with me as he was dealing with me from now on And to forward anything they send me to him direct. I imagine that they are compiling some sort of evidence to see how many other times this has happened to them.

 

so thats sherforce off my back. they may try and chase me for admin charged but to be honest they are aware pc world are onto them and they wont want the hassel or to upset such a big client anymore.

 

Result then. So just make sure yo get all the facts right then call your original debtor and see what they can do. Sherforce are ass holes and would step on their own mothers just to get a fiver.

 

Good luck

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Guest Happy Contrails

 

Sherforce Charges £1592.

 

Total debt £3400?????????? + 8% annual charge.charged daily

 

the courts have said they can charge as much as they like.

 

Not true.

 

The law prescribing fees chargeable by a High Court Enforcement Officer (HCEO) for collecting unpaid debts is Schedule 3 of Regulation 13 of The High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004. Broadly speaking it provides:

 

Where the sum due is £100 or less - 5%

Above £100 - 2.5%

Mileage Charges - 29.2p per mile Max £50

Seizure of goods - £2 per site

Signed Walking possession agreement fee - £3.25 a day

 

Transport and storage of removed goods/valuation - the law provides "Reasonable costs" - See: Culligan -v- Marston Group Ltd et-al, no. 8CL51015 the court ruled that because the Bailiff produced no breakdown of his charges, he is unable to show that it is reasonable costs. Therefore, van fees, tow truck fees and attending to remove fees = £0.00.

 

Unlike certificated bailiffs, HCEO's cannot enter a property without permission. They are the same as a common debt collector but with a fancy name.

 

This letter clears up the fees problem.

 

Name of HCEO Firm

Their Address 1

Their Address 2

Their Address 3

Postcode

 

BY POST AND BY EMAIL

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME + REF]: Your fees.

 

I write following visits by your High Court Enforcement Officer, however after seeking advice there appears to an irregularity with your fees. I now ask you to provide the following within seven (7) days:

 

1) Written confirmation of your fees

 

2) Written confirmation of the original debt

 

3) The name and address of the organisation that instructed you

 

4) Truthfully confirm in writing that your fees are lawful and comply with legislation or b) refund me the unlawful fees plus reasonable compensation for being cheated by your bailiff with his fees by midday the seventh day from the date of this letter.

 

A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Section 2 of the Act specifically describes a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss. If no satisfactory refund is made to me by 12.00 midday seven (7) days from the date of this letter I will automatically make a criminal complaint to Police under the 2006 Fraud Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act. If you have charged VAT on unlawful fees then you may be reported for VAT fraud and your documents will be given in evidence.

 

This is a letter before action and is not a request to access any personal data about me in the meaning of the Data Protection Act 1998. It is delivered by Royal Mail and deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It now is your responsibility and in your best interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

YOUR NAME

Copied to: [NAME OF MAGISTRATES COURT ATTN: THE COURT MANAGER]

 

 

If you don't get a refund in seven days or the bailiffs fob you off with excuses, download and complete a Form N1 from the HMCS website. The Defendants are addressed as:

 

[NAME OF HCEO COMPANY]

 

Brief Details of the Claim - enter - Reclaiming unlawful bailiff's fees.

 

Particulars of claim:

 

I received the defendant, a High Court Enforcement Officer collecting an unpaid debt. The defendant dishonestly charged me [£AMOUNT] contrary to Schedule 3 of Regulation 13 of The High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004 prescribing fees chargeable by a High Court Enforcement Officer. The law does not provide for the defendant to charge me any fees where no goods have been transported or sold by them. The defendant did not move any goods in a van and I did not sign any documents for them. I have been defrauded by the defendant who is cheating with his fees and I asked for a refund but it was the defendant’s choice to keep the money. On 20 April 2007, Lord Lucas in the House of Lords asked HM Government (inter-alia) "whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter"? Baroness Scotland of Asthal, The Minister of State, Home Office replied: (inter-alia) "A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006". Reasonable costs have been defined by District Judge Advent on the 9th & 24th September 2008 presiding over Case No 8CL51015 Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). The court ruled that “because the Bailiff produces no evidence as to how the charge had been arrived then he unable to show that it is reasonable". I claim i) the sum of [£AMOUNT], ii) Interest under Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from the date the money became due at the daily rate of 0.00022%, iii) reasonable costs the court thinks fit for being defrauded by the defendant iv) Reasonable costs the court thinks fit for Discovery of Information and compiling this case for court, v) costs allowed by the court at the prescribed rate.

 

If you are on a low income then complete an EX160 fee remission form.

 

File the Form N1 at you local county court. The claim will be defended (with the same old bailiff's ramblings) and the court will send you an allocation questionnaire. Keep all documents and receipts given to you by the bailiff and await the hearing date. Do not be bullied by bailiffs or their barrister outside court to get you to drop the claim. You want ALL your money back plus your costs and interest in CLEARED FUNDS. Go before the Judge and ask for it. When the judge has awarded your judgment, always ask the judge for your "costs of today at the prescribed amount", he'll award you an extra 60-quid on top of your costs. Remember, you are a litigant-in-person and court rules say the judge must advocate for you in court.

 

When a bailiff defrauds you with his fees he commits an arrestable offence.

 

The Chief Constable

Name of Police Authority

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Reporting a crime committed under the Fraud Act 2006

 

I enclose a document given to me by a man saying he is a High Court Enforcement Officer (the suspect). He charged fees £AMOUNT when the law does not provide for any. The law prescribing HCEO fees is Schedule 3 of Regulation 13 of The High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004 and only provides fees of [£AMOUNT]. The law does not provide for the suspect to charge me any fees where no goods have been transported or sold by them. The suspect did not move any goods in a van and I did not sign any documents for him. I have been defrauded by the suspect who is cheating with his fees and I have asked for a refund without success.

 

I appreciate the police have a propensity to dismiss bailiff crime to be a civil matter, but the official legal position is the suspect commits an arrestable offence under the 2006 Fraud Act. Lord Lucas at the House of Lords on 20 April 2007 when he asked HM Government whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter. The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal) replied with, inter-alia (quote) A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006 (unquote).

 

Section 1 means by which this offence can be committed is set out in Section 2, on fraud by false representation. This section applies where a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss. It is also possible that, where a bailiff repeatedly charges for work that has not been done, this conduct will amount to fraudulent trading either under Section 9 of the 2006 Act or under the provisions on fraudulent trading in company legislation.

 

The law can provide reasonable costs in respect of bailiffs transporting goods in a van (attending to remove fee) however no goods have been levied and no document has been signed by me. District Judge Advent on the 9th & 24th September 2008 presiding over Case 8CL51015 Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). The court ruled that (quote) because the bailiff produces no evidence as to how the charge had been arrived then he unable to show that it is reasonable (unquote).

 

Any offence committed under the 2006 Fraud Act is an arrestable offence under Section 24 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Please assign a crime reference number and I request the crime is investigated professionally and objectively and I am happy to help you in your enquiries and stand as a prosecution witness at trial.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

YOUR NAME

Enc: copy of HCEO document giving contact details

 

If the police fob you off with excuses, write down the name and rank of the police officer and contact the IPCC and your MP with a written complaint of 'Perverting the Course of Justice'. It is an offence under Section 4 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 to conceal a crime under false pretences.

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  • 1 year later...

Hi

I know this thread is some time ago but i belieive Sherforce do a good job they are currently trying to get me a load of money through a former employer who lost an employment tribunal and refuses to pay me my award he is currently giving Sherforce the run around from saying he is no longer sole proprietor of the business and now saying he has nothing to do with the company so when you think how much they run around the charges they charge are quite reasonable maybe if people pay what they owe then they can't moan about the added fees

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