CCA when already in litigation?? can anyone help??

[Soo43]

HFC v us - CAN SOMEONE HELP? Hi have joined the forum and the growing number of people trying to claim unfair charges.

 

Does anybody know the answer to this question -

 

HFC served judgement by determinationby on us - we had papers and sent them signed to paypal to complete and payplan admitted the debit even tho they were aware we were trying to reclaim unfair charges etc.,

 

anyway received judgement on 13th december, wrote and requested CCA agreement on 18th December, had previously requested statements on 24th November (HFC solicitors Restons had added £1900+ in collection costs!!!) as want to check agreement. Received nothing

 

Called Restons and were informed that as we are already in litiagation :xthey DO NOT have to supply the CCA.

 

Is this correct???

 

How can we argue the extoriate high interest rate and excessive charges without a copy of the CCA (was back in 1985 according to claim form)

 

i appreciate any help i can get please.

 

many thanks

[Edz11]

I think you're being overtechnical - well, using the wrong phrases to be honest!

 

What did HFC do - did they take you to Court? What was the date on the clainm, the form N1 (look for the number at the bottom of the left hand corner). What was shown on the particulars of claim??

 

If you sent off a CCA request and there is anything payable under the agreement then they are legally required to send it regardless of court action or the weather.

 

You need to send a Subject Access request and a tenner off to get details of the charges.

[Soo43]

yes they sent us a n1 court form - we asked payplan what to do - they told us to sign and send to their legal dept - we did this

 

they admitted the debt for us

21.11.07 - claim put in to court by Restons

24.11.07 - sent off SAR request - heard nothing

26.11.07 - received claim forms from restons

27.11.07 - sent signed forms to payplan

13.12.07 - judgement by determination received

17.12.07 - sent in for re-determination of judgement

18.12.07 - sent of CCA request - heard nothing

 

hope this helps a little

 

thanks for any advice

[Edz11]

Payplan again...

 

You've admitted to a debt that you were in the process of disputing!

 

Was that a default judgment you are referring to?

 

and did you apply to have the judgment set aside on 17 December or was your application to have the judgment varied?

[Soo43]

we never admitted the debt - we told payplan we were quering the collection costs and also the unfair charges - they ticked the box admitting claim (not sure what we can do about that - we thought they were there to help and advise us and now find out they are in actual fact funded by the credit cards!!!)

 

we wrote a letter to the judge with the form for a redetermination - stating that we disagreed with

 

1) the total as excessive interest rate (upt it to 29% when we started having problems)

 

2) the collection charges

 

3) the unfair credit card charges

 

we then received a letter stating we had a hearing in march

[Edz11]

what exactly does that letter say?

[Soo43]

i will scan it in tomorrow so you can see it

 

thanks for your assistance

[Soo43]

sorry havent been able to scan letter - been in bed for last week ill - terrible headache - doctor says its stress

[Edz11]

scan it as soon as you can...

[Soo43]

this is letter we sent to court

Northampton County Court

St Katharine’s House

21-27 St Katharine’s Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

Monday, 17 December 2007

Dear Sir or Madam:

Claim No: xxxxxxx

We are writing as we wish to apply for a write off of debt or reduction in the instalment order. Should the latter be applied we ask that charges for collection of this debt of £1905.10 placed on this account be withdrawn as in our circumstances (see attached – due to serious illness) we feel that these charges are unreasonable and unfair and the Office of Fair Trading under the Debt Collection Guidance states, “Charges should not be levied unfairly."

We wish the court to re-consider and re-determine the amount of monthly payment as to that first offered to HFC bank & Restons solicitors of £25.61.

We had previously informed HFC bank of the circumstances surrounding our debt, via ourselves and payplan, sending evidence of my wife’s illness and tried to discuss our case with them, however, they failed to respond to our letters, other than, on 9th October sent a default notice and court proceedings on 21st November.

As we understand, companies are required to apply understanding, discretion or flexibility in their strategies to recover debt and HFC Bank failed in their duty in our case by proceeding direct to court without giving us any assistance.

We enclose documentation to back our claim and look forward to hearing from you. Should a hearing be in order, we would like to attend such hearing at our local court.

Yours faithfully

this is letter sent to restons and hfc (had already requested cca ages ago) we sent letters by recorded mail and have not heard anything from them. - DO THEY HAVE TO SUPPLY US WITH A CCA they told us initially they didnt as we were already at litigation - we think we should go for a set aside or strike out as no CCA produced??? is that possible

HFC Bank Limited

Litigation Department

Camden House West

The Parade

Birmingham

B1 3PY

Monday, 04 February 2008

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

HFC Bank PLC –v– xxxx Claim No: xxxxxxxx

Your ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 8208

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose, under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided, as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true and legible copy of the executed credit agreement taken out 27th January 1995 (as per default order) and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with HFC Bank.

c. Details of logic involved in any automated decisions you made about me or my accounts HFC Bank.

d. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

e. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

f. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

g. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

h. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

i. A list of third party agencies to which you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

j. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

Part of this information was requested directly from the Claimant on 24 November 2007, in the form of a Data Protection Act Subject Access Request, also a Credit Agreement was requested under the consumer Credit Act on 18 December 2007 and your continued failure to provide them will be brought to the attention of the court.

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with the request for a copy of the agreement and statement of account under these sections of the Act.

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006.

Yours faithfully,

[Soo43]

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THEY HAVE TO COMPLY TO OUR REQUEST FOR CCA???? THEY TELL US THEY DONT AS LITIGATION ALREADY STARTED????

THINK WE WILL GO FOR HAVING IT SET ASIDE???? IS THIS BEST??

[phatram]

I would put this question in the General Debt section, with a link to this thread. Or ask a moderator to move it for you.

Good luck

[Soo43]

My link has been going as the following link but i need to find out the answer to the following please:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hfc-household/129759-hfc-us-please-help.html

 

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THEY HAVE TO COMPLY TO OUR REQUEST FOR CCA???? THEY TELL US THEY DONT AS LITIGATION ALREADY STARTED????

 

THINK WE WILL GO FOR HAVING IT SET ASIDE???? IS THIS BEST??

[popeye1]

They have to supply all the information you requested [including CCA ] if they are taking you to court as it will be needed for your defence.

[JonCris]

Soo amend accordingly & send the following to them with a copy to the court if the claim has already been issued & you have a claim no. Failing that just to them

 

Date:

YOUR REF:

OUR REF: Special Delivery

S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) (Subject Access Request) Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act) 1998

Their Name & Address

 

 

Your Name & Address

 

 

 

Dear Madam or Sir:

RE: YOUR CLIENT

As per the Data Protection Act 1998 (Date Protection Act) I require that you supply me with any and all data in your possession which, in anyway appertains to myself including true copies of any properly executed agreements, statements of account, default notices, all internal and external correspondence, memo’s, telephone attendance notes, internal and external emails

If your client is not the original creditor please also supply a true copy of their letter of assignment or if acting on behalf of another a true copy of their predated authority to bring this action.

I enclose the statutory fee of £10 by way of a postal order and remind you that you have 40 days in which to comply

Also please note that for the avoidance of doubt and to expedite matters if you claim exemptions from the Data Protection Act under part IV section 35 I would respectfully remind you of the following:

Data Protection Act part IV section 35 (2) states "personal data is not exempt from the non-disclosure provisions" In addition Part II section 7 (legal guidance notes) "There are no exemptions from the right of access where civil legal proceedings are contemplated or ongoing"

If you should attempt to bring an action before compliance I will, after notifying the court of my Subject Access and CCA requests, ask the court for a continuance to allow time for both yours and your clients compliance

I await your responses

Yours faithfully

 

CC To all parties

[Edz11]

Soo - you're all over the place. Can you keep to this thread...

 

See post 2 for the CCA position.

[popeye1]

You say you have ahearing in March your request for information has to be complied with and i did not think you have to pay for the information,what do you think JonCris

[AndyOrch]

Hi

Once litigation as comenced their is no need for S.A.R you request this via a CPR 18 request no need to make payment and give them 10/14 days to respond

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION UNDER CPR18

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next xxx days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

 

 

Hope the above is of help

 

 

Regards

Andy

[rory32]

2 threads merged. Please stick to one thread per topic. This is for your benefit as people can then follow your situation and offer you the best advice.

[popeye1]

When you say ,restons put the claim into court on the 21 and you receive claim on the 26,what do you mean restons put claim into courts.Ionly ask as one of mine was assigned on the 7 and i receive claim issue date on the 10 that seems too ouick [ 3 days] to me

[Soo43]

Yes they applied to the court on 21st and we received court papers on 26th -

just make sure YOU complete and return the papers YOURSELF - we were advised to sign papers and return them to our DMP (Payplan) which we did and then they admitted the claim!!!!

 

We have today filed application in the court to have the hearing 'SET ASIDE' hopefully we will get this.....the lady at the court was very helpful and when we were talking to her and told her about payplan completing the papers she said 'NOT PAYPLAN AGAIN'.....

[JonCris]

Whereas a part 18 has to be specific & should not be submitted until after allocation a DPA can still be requested & need not be so specific. In other words you can simply request ALL data applying to you after which you chase them if you think they have withheld anything

[Soo43]

ANDYORCH - thanks for your letter andy - i did send this to restons and hfc on 4th february 2008 (thread10) but surprise. surprise - NOTHING. have now sent a copy to the court.....suppose i just wait now i guess and see what the court says?

 

RORY32 - sorry didnt realise had several threads on same thing......get confused due to my illness

 

POPEYE1 - yes popeye they seem to be able to get things done very quickly - i think having read up on this that they do it through a bulk processing centre at northampton and it looks like everything is just rubber stamped!