CCA requested and I think I've rumbled their little game.

[fuzzybobble]

A few months ago I sent Northern Rock a CCA request when they started demanding £10,000 from me.

 

A few weeks later a copy of the agreement arrived. (only one page

see below) and no terms and conditions or anything.

As the agreement looked ok, so I made a £1 token payment.

 

Soon after,they passed it onto Eversheds. Who a week later offered me a 30% reduction in the balance if I paid it off in full with 14 days.

 

The next month it gets passed onto Hunter Forrest & Co, so to put a spanner in their plans for a bit and to make them do some work I sent them a CCA request (and one to Eversheds just for the hell of it)

 

A few days ago someone on here pointed out that DCA's don't offer hefty discounts for no reason and there could be something wrong with the agreement that I was unaware of. So I went over the agreement with a fine toothed comb and I noticed 2 things.

 

1, The two signatures (one was for the PPI section) were different. The PPI one was deffo a forgery as it's different to my usual signature. Looks to me like someone's tried to copy it as I didn't ask for PPI, as I believe it to be a waste of money. (along with extended warranties on tvs, etc.)

 

The other thing I noticed is it looked like it was printed from a low resolution computer scan. As the curved bits were jagged, like what happens if you print out a jpeg picture and text from a webpage and enlarge it too much. Looks a bit like a fax, but better quality.

 

So, looks like they only have a computer/microfiche stored copy and not the original document.

Now am I right in thinking that unless they have the actual copy with balpoint pen signatures + my doubts about the signatures they cannot enforce this CCA in court? And them knowing this is why they have offered me 30% discount and passed it to two DCA's in the space of two months. Also I have paid a total of £2 since july last year and they still haven't gone down the court route with it.

 

The agreement they sent and some closeups of the text and signatures are below.

I welcome any suggestions or comments on where to go next with this.

 

 

 

The whole agreement....

 

 

Close up of first signature

Notice jagged curves and diagonals (original they sent is like this and not as a result of my scanning it.)

(cross put through through it just in case any DCA tries to use it lol)

 

 

Signature for the PPI bit.

Notice how the first letter of my first name is different

and also the end few letters of my surname too

 

[The GodMother]

well it does look different

[fuzzybobble]

Think I might write them a little letter over the weekend and point out these things to them, and ask to see the genuine article at a local branch. If fail to comply, I'll sort out going to court to force them to comply. If they the agreement, then I'm sure theyll have no problem producing it. Somehow I doubt it lol.

[42man]

If it was me and I was sure I never signed the PPI box, I would go straight to the FOS and the Police....

[fuzzybobble]

Sent them a letter yesterday.

 

In the letter I pointed out that I think the signatures are likely to be fake, as the two are different and the agreement isn't a copy of the original, but a copy of a computer generated/mircofiche which could easily be forged using Adobe Photoshop (or simalar software). I've done my own version to prove this for a future court case + full explaination of how I did it and work in progress printouts to show how easy it is.

 

I also asked to see the original document at a local branch of Northern Rock within 30 days. If they refuse, then I'll go for a court order to force them to comply or tell me in writing why they can't.

[The GodMother]

well will see if they produce a original then.

[Monty2007]

Hey you can send your document requests to Alistair Darling or Gordon Brown now, they are the new owners of this sinking ship (or are "we"?!).

[fuzzybobble]

Is nice to know that Gordon Brown is using billions of tax payers money to prop up this sinking rock. Just how does it help the tax payer in the long run? He's never explained how this will help the tax payer who's money he's using.

Going to write to him and say, " Hey Gordon, You invested a load of cash without my concent. When do I get my cheque/divvy for taking a huge risk in a non-viable company?" somehow I doubt he will reply.

 

I'll just have to console myself with getting a sports car for free due to Northern Rock not coming up with an enforcable cca agreement. Ok so it's only £3000, but £3000 is a lot of money to me and obviously nothing to them, so sod them. And sod them and the government with a big stick stuck right up where the sun don't shine.

 

After what they and DCA's etc, have done to my girlfriend over the 3 years before I met her, they can rot in hell and they fully deserve everything they get.

[Fred Bassett]

Is nice to know that Gordon Brown is using billions of tax payers money to prop up this sinking rock. Just how does it help the tax payer in the long run? He's never explained how this will help the tax payer who's money he's using.

Going to write to him and say, " Hey Gordon, You invested a load of cash without my concent. When do I get my cheque/divvy for taking a huge risk in a non-viable company?" somehow I doubt he will reply.

 

I'll just have to console myself with getting a sports car for free due to Northern Rock not coming up with an enforcable cca agreement. Ok so it's only £3000, but £3000 is a lot of money to me and obviously nothing to them, so sod them. And sod them and the government with a big stick stuck right up where the sun don't shine.

 

After what they and DCA's etc, have done to my girlfriend over the 3 years before I met her, they can rot in hell and they fully deserve everything they get.

 

Fuzzybobble,

 

I'm intrigued by the matter of a separate signature for the PPI. Is this a requirement?

 

Fred

[fuzzybobble]

It's a new one on me.

I never sign PPI or stuff for extended warrenties etc.

So when the so called agreement arrived I was shocked to see a tick

and a signature by the PPI part.

As you probably noticed the two sigs are not the same and they are obviously a printout from a computer/microfiche.

 

As a result I'm disputing the authenticity of both sigs as the whole agreement is a scanned copy and could easily been tampered with using photoshop or other image editing software.

 

I've done my own copy swapping the sigs with one that says micky mouse and changing the amounts and apr, etc, for obvoiusly silly things, just to prove how easily it can be done.

 

I've written to Northern Rock and the 2 DCA's they've sent the account to since, pointing out that I'm far from happy and the reasons why.

Then I asked to see the so called original CCA in a local branch. Also said that I would obtain a court order for the same if they failed to do so.

 

It's been over 6 months since they sent the letter demanding £10,000 from me. Since then I've been offered a 30% discount and the account has been sent to 2 different DCA's. Still no court action, so it says to me they know they cannot produce a proper CCA and they know it.

 

Now Gordon Brown (aka the Labour Government) owns Northen Rock, then I know I can sit back and laugh at them.

[Fred Bassett]

Thanks Fuzzybobble. What I'm trying to get at is whether or not a separate signature is required for the PPI. Any ideas?

 

Fred

[fuzzybobble]

Never seen a seperate sig required for a PPI agreement. In the past usually it's just a tick in a box that anyone can always add afterwards.

In my case the sig doesn't match the other or even my actual signature.

But then if they can't come up with anything but a computer scanned/microfiche version, then there's nothing to worry about anyway.

 

When you question it, it's up to them to prove you did sign it, not you to prove to them that you didn't. Innocent till proven guilty in the eyes of the law.

 

Unless it's the Inland Revenue, then it's a whole new ballgame where the rules are changed every few mins and goalposts are moved around so you always lose.

[Fred Bassett]

That's the problem - anyone can add a tick later. Extremely difficult to prove that you didn't ask for it, especially in my case as it went on for years. Never mind, the creditor concerned hasn't provided me with the correct paperwork so I'm not paying them anyway.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[N.P]

HI fuzzybobble,

 

Just subbing, as this is quite an interesting thread. Can`t wait to see what happens.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[fuzzybobble]

if they can't provide a cca, then ppi, unlawful charges, etc is just a secondary defence.

Best to sit back, enjoy the fun and make a donation to the CAG when you gain a few quid as a result, so others can also benefit from the info on this great site

[N.P]

Hi again fuzzy,

 

Thanks what I`m doing with Lloyds TSB. They`ve got their mates at Silly, Clark & Michelle onto me this week, even though they have totally ignored my CCA request from 4 months, ago, ignored my reminder and are STILL whacking on missed payment charges, late payment charges and also interest. There is also PPI involved which I was paying around £45 a month for. The card is over 5 years old, so I`ll just see what comes back and use the PPI and charges defense like you.

 

Don`t you just love a good scrap with a bunch of morons in cheap suits and dodgy Beetle cuts? LOL

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[Fred Bassett]

Hi again fuzzy,

 

Thanks what I`m doing with Lloyds TSB. They`ve got their mates at Silly, Clark & Michelle onto me this week, even though they have totally ignored my CCA request from 4 months, ago, ignored my reminder and are STILL whacking on missed payment charges, late payment charges and also interest. There is also PPI involved which I was paying around £45 a month for. The card is over 5 years old, so I`ll just see what comes back and use the PPI and charges defense like you.

 

Don`t you just love a good scrap with a bunch of morons in cheap suits and dodgy Beetle cuts? LOL

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

 

NP,

 

Have you got your own thread on this? I'd be interested to read it if you have because Lloyds is the creditor I'm referring to.

 

Thanks.

 

Fred

[fuzzybobble]

Had the same with Moorcroft. They added £180 in charges over 3 months. Till they failed to provide a cca request then wrote to me saying I had to send it to Argos directly. Shame I sent the same CCA request to Argos the same day and they also failed the day before.

 

Argos and Moorcroft a big fat - 0

 

Fuzzybobble + camping gear,

shrek gingerbread man, and sat nav - 1

 

yeah I ripped them off I admit. No moral values here folks.

If it was the other way around and I couldn't produce the proper

documents when asked, they would have done the same to me, and to you. So like me, take advantage if you can and also sleep at night.

[N.P]

Had the same with Moorcroft. They added £180 in charges over 3 months. Till they failed to provide a cca request then wrote to me saying I had to send it to Argos directly. Shame I sent the same CCA request to Argos the same day and they also failed the day before.

 

Argos and Moorcroft a big fat - 0

 

Fuzzybobble + camping gear,

shrek gingerbread man, and sat nav - 1

 

yeah I ripped them off I admit. No moral values here folks.

If it was the other way around and I couldn't produce the proper

documents when asked, they would have done the same to me, and to you. So like me, take advantage if you can and also sleep at night.

 

 

 

Hi Fuzzy,

 

What is is with Argos and Moorcrap? Everyone seems to be getting hassled off these fools.

 

Morecrap returned the account to Argos because they didn`t have a CCA, so Argos sent it to some other knob jockeys called Fredrikson International. Those goons have also gone quiet for the same reason.

 

Now I`m getting grief off Lloyds and their Solicitors. This site is quite addictive really, once you start with one creditor, you seem to want to take them all on.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

NP,

 

Have you got your own thread on this? I'd be interested to read it if you have because Lloyds is the creditor I'm referring to.

 

Thanks.

 

Fred

 

 

Hi Fred,

 

Here`s my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/112783-lloyds-tsb-mastercard.html

 

Do you have one regarding Lloyds? Let me know, as I`d like to sub to it.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P