Natwest trying to take money we dont have because THEY made a mistake!

[Alexms]

my fiancee is an ex-cashier (of Natwest) but she left because it was such an awful, mean and corrupt company, she would come home crying daily.

 

she has now been sent a letter saying

 

Dear miss,

 

Salary overpayment

 

It has been bought to our attention that following your departure from the banks service on --------- you have been paid up to ---------- in error the ammount of overpayment is £161.20

 

I can confirm the ammount of £161.20 will be debited from your account by close of business on22 february 2008.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

£161.20 is a lot of money and we dont have it. to add to the problem they are demanding it before either of us next get paid, even then its a toss up between paying them and heating the house, as we both work in shops and dont earn very much.

 

does anyone know if it would be possible to use the first right of appropriation in this case? if not is there anything else we can do to pay it in instalments?

 

thanks

[Parkvale]

Deductions From Wages

 

If you have more money in your wages than you are expecting, don't be tempted to keep quiet about it. As soon as your employer realises that an error has been made, you will be asked to repay the money and, in general terms, your employer is entitled to take it back from your next wages. It is better to query the overpayment immediately and come to an arrangement to repay the money rather than find yourself in legal difficulties in the future, with the presumption that you were being dishonest because you said nothing.

 

So, contact your payroll office and ask them to confirm whether or not the pay is correct. If they confirm that the payment is correct, they are unlikely to be able to recover the money if they later discover that it is not correct.

 

What is your employer's legal position on discovering that you have been overpaid? Can the overpayment simply be recovered from your next wages? The "protection of wages" rules in the Employment Rights Act 1996 provide clear rules about making deductions from wages. In general, deductions may only be made from wages if the law permits it, or if your contract of employment specifically permits it, or if you and your employer have made a written agreement that permits it.

 

However, the important point to understand is that the protection offered by the Act does not extend to an overpayment of wages or expenses. An overpayment is specifically excluded from protection. This means that, if your employer recovers the overpayment from your later wages, you cannot complain to an employment tribunal that your employer has made an unlawful deduction.

 

You could, however, sue your employer in a civil court, e.g. the small claims court. That would depend, of course, on whether you thought it was unfair and unreasonable for your employer to recover the overpayment. And that is the issue that your employer has to consider before recovering an overpayment by deducting it from your wages - is it reasonable in all the circumstances to make the recovery?

 

What factors would a civil court take into consideration if you were to sue your employer for an amount of money deducted from your wages?

• In the employer's favour is the principle of "unjust enrichment" - a general view taken by courts that a person should not benefit from another's mistake.
  
• In the employee's favour is the principle of "change of position" - that the employee's circumstances do not make it reasonable for the money to be recovered, for example, because you were told on querying the payment that it was correct, or you spent or committed the money in the valid belief that you were entitled to it.

But don't think that, just because you've spent the money, that makes it unreasonable for the employer to recover it.

 

If you are still in the employment where the overpayment occurred

 

On discovering an overpayment, a good employer should immediately contact you, explain the problem and tell you that the money will be deducted from your next wages. But you should expect your employer to check with you that, by doing so, you will not find yourself in financial difficulties. If a full recovery would cause you problems, your employer may suggest recovering the overpayment in instalments, or taking the full amount of the overpayment and giving you a short-term loan that you would then pay off in instalments.

 

However, if you still feel that it is entirely unreasonable for the recovery to be made from your wages, you should make use of your employer's grievance procedure. If you raise the grievance before the recovery is made, the employer should wait until the grievance is resolved. If your employer goes ahead with the recovery, you may be able to take your employer to court, but not before following each stage of the grievance procedure precisely, including the appeal procedure if necessary.

 

To obtain advice on suing your employer in court, you should obtain advice from a solicitor, or the Citizen's Advice Bureau, or another local organisation providing advice on legal, employment or tax matters.

 

You must remember that, in the case of an overpayment of wages or expenses, you do not have any employment protection. Your employer is entitled to recover the money without your permission, but must do it in a fair and reasonable manner. If you were not entitled to the extra money in the first place, you and your employer should work together to correct the situation.

 

If you have left the employment where the overpayment occurred

 

In this situation, your former employer is unable to make a deduction from your wages. But what if, some months or years later, your former employer, or even a debt collector, contacts you claiming that you owe money that was overpayed in the former employment? Much will depend on what was stated in the employment contract. Some contracts state that, if an employee leaves the employment owing the employer money that could not be recovered from final wages, the amount owed becomes a civil debt. If there is no contractual provision to treat the alleged overpayment as a civil debt, the employer may have considerable difficulty in enforcing payment if you refuse to cooperate. In either situation, you should obtain advice from a solicitor, or the Citizen's Advice Bureau, or another local organisation providing advice on legal, employment or tax matters.

 

I hope this is helpful to you. It looks as though they are not allowed to takeback the overpayment. Good luck.

[btonbadger]

ok I'm just speed reading through this but I spotted:

 

If you have left the employment where the overpayment occurred

 

In this situation, your former employer is unable to make a deduction from your wages

 

 

and

 

my fiancee is an ex-cashier (of NatWest) but she left

 

Worth contacting the CAB if your fiancee is no longer an employee of the company!

 

BB

[Parkvale]

Well spotted B-Badger. Have changed my last sentence cheers.

[Alexms]

well thankyou very much! thats very helpfull and much appreciated!

 

Alex

[Parkvale]

Pleasure. We aim to please.

[Alexms]

sorry, one other thing, how should we approach the bank on this?

[Parkvale]

Do you agree with the overpayment ? If so write to them and ask to pay them off in instalments if that is easier.

If you disagree to the amount ask them to show you how it has arisen.

Do tell them NOT to debit your account with the alledged overpayment as if there is no contractual provision to treat the alleged overpayment as a civil debt, the employer may have considerable difficulty in enforcing payment if you refuse to cooperate.

[Alexms]

thankyou, this is the first time ive used this forum and i think ill be back!

[Parkvale]

We have helped thousands of people claim millions of pounds. So you are very welcome.

[Caz1974]

good advice as ever!

[Parkvale]

Cheers Caz. My Flumpy friend.

[Ell-enn]

On whose authority are they going to make the deduction from your bank account? presumably you have not given them permission to do so (unless of course, there was provision for that in your fiancee's contract of emloyment).

Do you have another bank account you could have your wages paid into? then make an arrangement with NatWest to pay the money back in small installments.