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Unlawful Direct Debits?


killing_the_egg
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Oh forgot to say that you can ask your bank to stop further DD being set up on your acct, they will put an indicator on your acct. If you bank with LTSB they can put a specific note on your acct to stop a compnay as long as you know the compnay name. things like ref number, ammount etc are alway use full as well!!

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Nearly right!

When Direct Debit was first introduced, the company had to post the Direct Debit Instruction (the piece of paper with your signature) to your bank. AUDDIS automated the process - the company keeps the paper (or an image of it) and sends the details on it electronically to the bank. (Note that the bank can no longer check your signature. If you contest the authenticity of a Direct Debit, the bank will request to see the original / image. If this is not supplied in 7 working days or the signature is not yours then the complaint is upheld). A third type of Direct Debit exists, called Paperless Direct Debit, which allows a customer to complete the Instruction over the Internet, the Phone, Face-to-Face, using a Telephone Keypad or Interactive TV. Note here that there is no signature - if you dispute having set up the DD then there is no comeback from the originator.

f7200 is correct that Direct Debit is only a method of collecting payment, not for enforcing contracts. Your bank should be on your side in the event of a dispute. This is why the Direct Debit Guarantee entitles you to a full and immediate refund in the event of an error.

If you cancel a Direct Debit then the company cannot reinstate it without your permission. If they do, you should complain to your bank. You should get full and immediate refund. The Indemnity mentioned is between the bank and the company, it says that the company will pay the claim. That's between them and nothing to do with you - and should not be used as an excuse by your branch not to refund you.

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  • 1 year later...

I have a similar problem with HSBC. I signed up for a business credit card prior to starting the business with the intention of making the minimum payment via online banking every month. However, they took a direct debit from my new business account and becuase there was no money in it as I had not started trading yet, it bounced! This incurred £250 worth of charges. I have written to them on about 15 occasions to ask for a copy of the direct debit mandate and they have written back to me saying they are unable to provide one. This is on the verge of going to court now so I would like to know if they are legally obliged to provide proof that I agreed to a direct debit (possibly via a mandate or cc agreement) before they take me to court. I can't get any proof but surely that's not legal as anyone could take a sum of money from my account - surely they need to prove that I agreed to it?

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Is this still ongoing? I may be able to help as I dealt with DD indemnities at Nationwide. Banks are sometimes relucatant to follow through on the DD guarantee as it generates extra work for them but essentially what should happen is they reimburse you with the funds and claw it back from the company.

 

If you want my opinion on any of the preceeding info PM and I shall return.

The views I express here are mere speculation based on my experience. I am not qualified nor insured to give legal advice and any action you take will be at your own risk.

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  • 6 months later...

I have been informed from Abbey that any company who has your bank account and sort code can set up a direct debit without a signature. I took out a loan with Payday loans who take out money from your debit card, however my card was cloned and i had not received a new one so could not advise them of it. They then set up one direct debit mandate and took 3 lots of monies out of the account on the same day totalling £540 without any written authorisation from me to do so. The other thing that is totally wrong is that despite this they have still sent another letter asking for the payment as well.

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subbed - I have an ongoing dispute between Natwest and CSA whereby 8 different DDs are showing on my account (all with the same reference number) but I have only ever provided 2 Mandates with my signature on.

 

Natwest have been wriggling like a worm on a hook over this issue and the CSA have denied all knowledge. There is more information in this one thread about the DD system than I have found throughout the rest of this site.

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I have an issue at the moment concerning a payday loan contract... they took two direct debits for smaller amounts which were levied with two seperate return charges of £21... I will be claiming them back via the DD Indemnity scheme but it goes to show some companies believe they can do as they please :rolleyes:

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"took out a loan with Payday loans who take out money from your debit card, however my card was cloned and i had not received a new one so could not advise them of it"

 

Continous debit card authority is another great evil, although less widespread than DD issues I believe these are much worse because you cannot cancel them.

 

Any company CAN setup a direct debit, no proof is required and the "guarantee" is a joke. Definately needs to be changed and pronto.

The views I express here are mere speculation based on my experience. I am not qualified nor insured to give legal advice and any action you take will be at your own risk.

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  • 8 months later...

Does anyone know what happens to the DD guarantee when the originator IS YOUR BANK? I took out a loan with HSBC (whom I banked with at the time). DD was set up and everything was ok until I became unemployed. I tried to cancel the DD because I couldn't afford the monthly repayments and my bank REFUSED :eek: Can they legally do that? I was already overdrawn, and so the DD payments were bounced anyway. Well, all bar one were. The one that was honoured sent me over my overdraft limit and therefore has caused me to incurr further charges (and interest) despite me pleading "financial hardship" to the bank. As far as I'm concerned HSBC are a bunch of criminals, and the banking crisis and bonus situation just makes you want to rip their appendages off :mad:

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I have come across this before, when I split up with my GF there was a DD on the bank account which was for a loan made by HSBC. They did not cancel it despite multiple requests, they later told me that they can't, its in the loan contract apparently. However they hadn't notified me of this as they had changed the address on the account to her addres (despite instructions signed by both to remove her name from the joint account),

 

I got it all sorted largely because of suspected DPA breaches by sending my statemens etc to her and changed the address without my permission or even notifying me.

 

Frankly I've no idea how this would stand in relation to hardship. I can't see how leaving an instruction in place they know will fail could be regarded as positive and sympathetic. Have they accepted that you are in hardship?

 

I don't believe there is any legal basis to stop them doing this, though I agree it is totally wrong. Much like the permission to share info with CRA's it is in the original contract.

 

I would've thought being unemployed you would have a good case for hardship as I imagine there are other priority debts you are struggling to pay. Put this to the bank and mention the ombudsmen if they won't play ball.

 

 

If that DD is causing a snowball and charges then I think they'd have difficulty arguing that was reasonable.

The views I express here are mere speculation based on my experience. I am not qualified nor insured to give legal advice and any action you take will be at your own risk.

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Hi and thanks for the response. To be honest I don't think HSBC ever did accept I was in hardship. They asked for proof and an I&E, which I sent them, and which they subsequently lost (or claimed never to have received). I've since re-sent the I&E and have spent so much time trying to get them to see that asking for funds (via the DD) from an account that was already at it's overdraft limit and therefore was going to be refused was a fruitless exercise that was going to get neither of us anywhere at all, but in their totally inept and arrogant defiance they STILL insisted that they couldn't cancel the DD ... so I took the attitude of "stuff 'em" and let them continually ask for payment, be refused, and charge me £25 for the privilege until such time as they passed my debt on to a DCA. As soon as they did, I told the DCA that I was in dispute over the amount owing (due to these charges over the DD). DCA dropped it like a hot potato and HSBC passed it straight onto their solicitors (DG Solicitors). I've written to (and spoke to) DG and informed them of the situation and agreed to make a token monthly payment whilst I try and resolve this direct with HSBC. Complaints thus far have met with a "we won't refund you anything more - that is our position" .They agreed to refund some of these charges about 8 months ago and then proceeded to DEBIT my account instead of crediting it! This incurred further interest charges which I am STILL asking them to refund along with ALL charges since they were initially informed about my unemployment and since I first attempted to cancel the DD.

 

There will be a final letter of complaint going to HSBC sometime this week, and if that doesn't result in a favourable response then I'll be taking it up with the ombudsman. Sick of it now. Banks think they can just bully anyone. I have no qualms about paying back my debts, but I can ONLY do that at a rate I can afford at the moment - their belligerence beggars belief.

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I believe under hardship rules they are supposed to consider cancelling DD's where the person is asking for help and charges are being incurred repeatedly. I would say there's definately no harm going to the ombudsmen, it sounds like its been over eight weeks, ur getting nowhere, and their actions do seem difficult to justify.

The views I express here are mere speculation based on my experience. I am not qualified nor insured to give legal advice and any action you take will be at your own risk.

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  • 2 years later...

I have searched the threads, and have not found a similar post, so here goes...

 

I left Virgin Media in January this year. My Wife applied for service in the Febuary.

 

However the first bill was taken from my bank account. VM said that these were the details givewhen the account was set up. My wife ademently denies this, and said they never even asked for DD details during the initial sale call. VM said they do not have the call recording so this cannot be proved, or disproved.

 

My question is: is a person - in this case my wife - able to give someones elses bank - details, and have them use to take money from without the person whose details they are even knowing or consenting or signing anything

 

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated

 

Paul

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