1st credit and old Northern Rock Loan & Card Sold to Co-Op - SB'd - Scotland

[Tartan Barty]

I have a NR loan and CC that was sold to the Co-op a few years ago, not through lack of payment. The Co-op have been accepting reduced payments on both since my finances went t*ts-up in 2003. They are now starting the old 'we won't accept anything less than £150 per month' routine. Just wondered if anyone had experience of CCA'ing loans and CC's that the Co-op bought from NR. Is it likely they got the correct paperwork when the sale went through??

[ScarletPimpernel]

I CCA'd Co-Op for a £15k Northern Wreck card. They eventually produced an unenforceable agreement which they attempted to pursue. However, a few months before my circumstances changed I'd been the victim of fraudulent use of the card number; Co-Op opened a new account (balance: Nil) and issued a new card that I didn't activate. They then transferred the old balance to the new account and tried to pursue that one instead. They could not, of course, produce a CCA - because there wasn't one - and after six months I've heard no more. I imagine it'll resurface eventuall, having been flogged to some bottom feeders.

[The GodMother]

I could not get rid of them for a previous tenants debt until they were threatend with court action for harressement.

 

have not heard from them since and dont expect l wil be

[Tartan Barty]

Well the phone calls continue and now they say that they have sent an I&E form for me to complete. Last time they did that they asked for 3 wage slips, a statement from each of my credit etc. I reported them to the FOS and they made a formal complaint on my behalf. Never heard back from the Co-op until now.

 

Is there a head office address for the CCA requests to go to? I only have a PO Box no from the credit card statements.

[Pinky69]

If it is a PO Box in Balloon Street in Manchester, that's the address you send your CCA request to.

[boyboynova]

The only thing with the PO Box is you wont get signature if sent Recorded/Special Del

Just take off PO Box and send to Balloon St

[Pinky69]

I got a signature from the PO Box.

[boyboynova]

Hiya Pinky...was talkin to a mate of mine who's a postie in Manc and he says postmen sign for them if PO BOX.

Was his suggestion to remove PO Box so you can get a signature.

[Tartan Barty]

Re the s10 bit...I have a default on my file from 1st Crudit for this loan. Now surely if they can't supply the agreement they can't process my data.

 

Can anyone point me towards the letter with the s10 bit where it says you must cease in 21 days or write to me explaining why in 14 days, can't just say 'legal right' etc.

 

I have spent 2 hours looking through posts but can't find an example!!

[The GodMother]

you mean this letter?

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 21 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 21 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

BLAH

[Tartan Barty]

Exactly that one......much obliged!

[The GodMother]

YW.

 

Send by RD and dont sign it

[Tartan Barty]

OK so I CCA'd them on the 19 April and this is the response I have recieved today

 

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk222/Tartan_Barty/coop.jpg

 

Is this saying what I think it is saying

 

What's my next move??

[ScarletPimpernel]

Essentially Co-Operative Bank are admitting that they do not have an agreement and they know that the debt is unenforceable. However, the so-called ethical bank thinks that by waffling about payments and statements, you will be persuaded that they have a case and will give them money. You can safely ignore this rubbish.

 

They have failed to comply with your s.77/78 request.

 

As far as the next move is concerned, I'd be inclined wait until 12 working days have passed since they received your request, and then drop them a line reminding them that whilst they remain in default of your formal request, under the CCA 1974 they may not demand payment, and nor do you have to offer any.

 

Since they have no agreement at all, they will also not be able to prove that you expressly consented to the processing and sharing of data - so send them a s.10 Notice as well.

[Tartan Barty]

Just as I thought, I will follow your excellent advice.

[Tartan Barty]

Ok a quick update. Following their letter they continued to call but didn't get any response. They then sent a letter which arrived on the day the 12 days ended saying they wanted the whole amount for the credit card. That night I got a call from Phoenix Credit Services Ltd who said Co-op had passed on the other debt.

 

The conversation went something like:

Phoenix Muppet: Can you give me the first character from your password

Me: No

Phoenix Muppet: Is that because you don't know it or because you won't

Me: Because this account is in dispute and should not have been passed to you

Phoenix Muppet: But the Co-op have passed it to us

Me: Well they haven't supplied me with an enforceable agreement so its in dispute

Phoenix Muppet: What do you mean, it's in dispute

Me: Failure to supply a enforceable agreement, not allowed to ask for payment, not obliged to offer payment, not allowed to default, not allowed to pass on to 3rd party etc etc

Phoenix Muppet: Thank you [click]

 

God that felt good....!

 

Now Phoenix have sent me a letter and it says they are a subsidery of Co-op. Do I need to send them the 'I am surprised......' letter or should they know the account is in dispute and ignore them??

 

Can Co-op pass the account over during the 12 days???

[Tartan Barty]

I had a statement through from the coop today and they have now started charging me £12 arrears charge and £25 interest. The 12 days was up on the 8th May and they applied the charges on the 7th. I have continued to make payments.

 

Any ideas how I play this one?

[Tartan Barty]

Anyone???

[Tartan Barty]

Much to my surprise I have received a copy of my agreement from 1st Credit

 

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk222/Tartan_Barty/NRCCA.jpg

 

Please tell me this is unenforcable.....it looks good to me.

 

I really don't want to have to pay anything to these muppets

 

After making a CCA request to 1st Credit in Feb 08 they have somehow found my agrremenf from 2001!!! They have sent a letter with it and some statements.

 

Firstly the agreement looks like it has all the terms required to make it enforcable

See http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk222/Tartan_Barty/NRCCA.jpg

 

The statements are for the time the loan was with Northern Rock but make no mention of the time it has been with 1st credit. Are they supposed to send me a statement of payments to them???

 

If anyone can spot anything wrong with the agreement please post as I really want this to go back to NR and not pay the heartless 1st crundit monkeys anything.

 

*bump* can anyone help?????

 

Just reading through some other threads....if the agreement is sent by post for me to sign at home after NR have signed it, should it have cancellation rights? Also it says that there are T&c's overleaf but I don't have the overleaf bit. Does that make a difference??

[pt2537]

Hi there,

 

Sorry for the delay,

 

well, having looked at the agreement, i have to say, it does look good,

 

have festering crudit sent you a notice of assignment? are they indeed the legal owners of the debt?

[Tartan Barty]

Thanks for that pt

 

The letter said " with regards to your request for a copy of the deed of assignment, we would refer you to section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 which provides that the debtor is notified of the assignment of the debt in writing and not a copy of the deed itself. A notice of assignment was generated on the 5th July 2005 and posted to you"

 

I can't remember if that's true or not!!!

 

So my questions are:

1. This was a unsecured loan done on the internet so does that make it non-cancellable?

2. It refers to "terms & conditions overleaf" which I don't have. Does that make a difference?

3. I don't have any statement of account from when it was passed to 1st Crundit does that matter?

4. The NR statement shows an opening balance on the 31/01/01, the agreement was signed by them on the 22/02/01, by me on the 26/02/01 and the first repayment was on the 09/04/01. Why was the balanced opened before the agreement was signed??

 

ANy help MUCH appreciated.

[slideshowbob]

Hi,

 

Your message advises that you only requested the CCA and that is what you got. Did you make any payments to 1st credit?If so, you can always request a statement of account from them, maybe worth it just to ensure the balance is correct.

 

From the image it looks ok, are you in dispute with anything in specific? If so i would maybe look at the T&C's if you have them.

 

Hope that hekps,

 

all the best!

[Rahl]

I see partial terms and conditions , in fact it says they are only partial terms and conditions by mentioning the fact the rest are overleaf .

 

So you'd at least need the other side of this document . Unless there is a law that says everything needs to be on the same page.

 

some more info :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/127412-barclaycard-cca-documents-enclosed-2.html

Edited May 17, 2008 by Rahl

[Tartan Barty]

And so the phone calls start again but from a different number.

 

I am planning on sending the following:

Quote

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

 

THIS ACCOUNT IS CURRENTLY IN DISPUTE

 

 

Ref:

 

Thank you for your letter dated XXX, the contents of which has been noted.

 

On XXX, I sent a consumer credit act 1974 s77-79 request for a true copy of my credit agreement, with the prescribed payment, a current and fully up-to date statement for this account and a signed true copy of the deed of assignment.

 

You have failed to supply the following:

 

• A complete true signed copy of the credit agreement (The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both the original creditor and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document)
• A current and fully up-to date statement for this account (you are legally obliged to send this, I am not asking for all data held; i.e. a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request and therefore you cannot charge for this)
• A signed true copy of the deed of assignment (I have not received any correspondence from either the original lender or yourself to prove you now owned this alleged debt)

You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide all of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

Any comments??

 

Sent the letter special delivery last night so will see what they say.

 

Anyone any answers to the questions in post #33????

 

bump

[rory32]

Are they supposed to send me a statement of payments to them???

 

Yes. The copy of the agreement should be accompanied by a statement of account as stated in the Act.