HFC agreement turned up Help

[trevor33]

First, I would like to thank everyone on CAG for the help and advice given on this site. Keep up the good work.

 

Now to my 'problem'

 

I sent a CCa to Weightmans in May 07 asking for a copy of agreement for a loan with HFC. They replied saying to contact HFC. I sent SAR and CCA to HFC and got a wad of paperwork back but no agreement.

I stopped making payments after time expired.

Nothing since, until 1st Feb 08. A letter from Weightmans demanding payment. Sent RD letter telling them to 'go away'.

Got a letter today from Weightmans with a copy of the agreement (after 10 months ????).

Have checked contents of agreement and all seems in order except not signed or dated by HFC.

Do I now have to start paying again.

Is agreement enforceable now.

Help appreciated.

[PriorityOne]

You really need to scan this up if possible, blocking out all personal details. HFC are very keen to try and pass Application forms off as Agreements, yet if it hasn't been signed, it wouldn't have been "properly executed" anyway.

 

How old is this account ?

[trevor33]

You really need to scan this up if possible, blocking out all personal details. HFC are very keen to try and pass Application forms off as Agreements, yet if it hasn't been signed, it wouldn't have been "properly executed" anyway.

 

How old is this account ?

Thanx P1. I think it is a 'proper' credit agreement from all the posts on CAG I've read . It is for a loan I have with HFC dated 2000. I have not scanned anything up but will try. There is no signature or date from HFC.

T33

[trevor33]

Hi P1

Having trouble scanning this document. Running windows vista, nothing seems to work. Any tips

T33

[PriorityOne]

Can you scan it into Photobucket ? You'll need to register with them (free), scan the doc. (blank out all details first though) and then paste it up on here (I think ).

 

Have a few goes and see how you get on....

 

[trevor33]

Can you scan it into Photobucket ? You'll need to register with them (free), scan the doc. (blank out all details first though) and then paste it up on here (I think ).

 

Have a few goes and see how you get on....

 

I think I have done it.

 

I have read in CAG somewhere that after an OC has defaulted they haveto apply to a court to get it reinstated. Is this true? T33

[PriorityOne]

You may be able to go with the fact that it's not been signed by HFC.... but, I would have Peterbard check the whole thing out for you on the CCA thread, in case there's anything else.... and so you know where you stand with it.

 

The link is here :

 

Consumer Credit Act Agreements

 

It's a long thread... but if you can scan what Weightman's have sent you onto the end of it, people on that thread will check it out for you.

[trevor33]

Update. Sequence of events.

22 Mar 07 SAR to Weightmans (HFC loan)

28 Mar 07 letter from Weightmans saying they have no data. (returned fee)

28 Mar 07 SAR and CCA to HFC

15 May 07 letter from HFC asking for info.

19 May 07 Sent default letter to HFC.

18 June 07 Sent letter to Information Commisioners Office with complaint about HFC.

8 Aug 07 Loads of rubbish from HFC.

1 Feb 08 Letter from Weightmans demanding payment or will put a charge on house.

2 Feb 08 Sent default letter to Weightmans.

11 Feb Agreement turns up from Weightmans.

 

I do think I have been stitched up by these 'law abiding' companies.

Any thoughts anyone.

[car2403]

They can enforce the agreement (if it's enforceable) even after being in default of your request once the agreement has been found - they just can't enforce without an agreement while in default of the request.

 

Prescribed terms seem to be there. (Amount of loan, interest rate and repayments) If you can post up again with the financial figures, I can check the APR is right, etc.

 

When was this agreement made?

[trevor33]

It was made 2000, but it was a re-finance loan. When I checked my old paperwork, I found no less that 5 account Nos, some I know nothing about. The original loan was for 5K 1993. Still 5K. can't seem to find out why. Agreement posted T33

 

[car2403]

The APR is wrong - it works out to be 12.685%, rather than 12.6% as stated. This is within the tolerance allowed, so of little use - just means repayments of £79.67 are 18p per month higher than they should be, (the loan only) which means they are snipping £15.12 more than they should be. (Not unlawful, just wrong, IMHO)

 

APR isn't a statement of the interest rate, so you could argue that this prescribed term is missing. If that is true, (arguable) the agreement is unenforceable under s.127(3) as a prescribed term is missing. I've seen other agreements, some of which are mine, that are the same from HFC and other creditors that have this issue - check this out from my Barclays thread just this morning;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/110184-car2403-barclays-bank-default-7.html#post1393214 (read from post #134-140 to see what I mean)

 

So, unenforceable even with a Court order if the interest rate argument works, enforceable with a Court order due to missing creditors signature unless you can show prejudice as a result.

 

What's happened with this account? Send to DCA? Defaulted? Penalty charges applied? (Note, there's no term allowing charges to be applied at all) PPI missold?

[trevor33]

[quote=car2403;

What's happened with this account? Send to DCA? Defaulted? Penalty charges applied? (Note, there's no term allowing charges to be applied at all) PPI missold?

 

Sorry I have been a while to reply, been busy reading some of your other threads and cases etc. Seems that you have been extremely busy.

 

I do not know what to do from here (If in fact I can do something). Do I contact the DCA and ask for more details with regard to penalty charges, account anomilies, applied charges, ppi ect

T33

[car2403]

Sorry I have been a while to reply, been busy reading some of your other threads and cases etc. Seems that you have been extremely busy.

 

Blooming 'eck! If you've been reading my threads I'm surprised your still compus mentus enough to be posting!

 

I have been busy, but it's still ongoing and I've learnt so much since I started. You'll see from some of the threads, (HFC one, for example) that I've come a long way since all this kicked off... the end is in sight now though, hopefully.

 

I do not know what to do from here (If in fact I can do something). Do I contact the DCA and ask for more details with regard to penalty charges, account anomilies, applied charges, ppi ect

T33

 

You should S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) the original creditor, perhaps even the DCA if you have a spare £10 and some time to chase them, which should reveal everything you need. Account statements, credit agreements, Default Notices, insurance add-ons, etc, etc; (amend to suit)

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

Style Financial Services Ltd: ********

s.7 DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998 – DATA SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

 

 

I request that Style Financial Services Ltd provides me with all details held regarding my accounts, including, but not exclusively as I require access to all information relating to me as a Data Subject under the Data Protection Act;

 

§ Details of all default charges for unpaid items and fees charged for managing the above account, which I have paid in the last six years

§ Copies of all original Consumer Credit Act agreements for each account held in my name

§ Details of all assignments, whether equitable, absolute, legal or otherwise, of the account and documentary evidence of such assignment

§ Details of all manual intervention that has taken place on accounts held in my name, with documentary evidence of such.

§ Details of logic involved in any automated decisions you made about me, or my accounts with you.

 

Please note that this is not an exclusive list, as I require access to all information held by Style Financial Services Ltd regarding me, as a Data Subject under the Data Protection Act.

 

I understand that Style Financial Services Ltd is obliged to provide this information under the Data Protection Act 1998. I have enclosed a cheque for £10 to cover the statutory fee that can be charged for this service.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within 40 days from the date of this letter and before 1 January 2008, in any event.

 

Yours faithfully

[trevor33]

I have SAR'd both OC and DCA back last April. Received a load of rubbish from HFC August 07 and nothing from DCA. The info sent from HFC was reams of entries about codes used and conversations. No details of credits and debits, or charges, or balances.

There was also someone elses details enclosed.....whoops.

[trevor33]

It seems strange that DCA can supply the OG but bot HFC back in April. T33

[trevor33]

Latest......got letter from DCA today advising court action.

[car2403]

Latest......got letter from DCA today advising court action.

 

What's the EXACT (sorry to be pedantic!) wording of the letter?

[trevor33]

What's the EXACT (sorry to be pedantic!) wording of the letter?

Letter uplaoded (Can't seem to get photobucket to turn it the right way up)

Both my wife and I received the same letter as we are both on the agreement. Regards T3.

 

[car2403]

Interesting. This isn't a standard collection letter, as it states they have issued proceedings, rather than a play on words saying "we can" or "we could", which is usually the case.

 

I'd expect you'll get a CC claim form through today/tomorrow, as it is likely to come from Northampton and they are s*it hot on issuing claims like this.

 

Note: "Should you fail to make a suitable offer of payment" - why would you pay when the debt is likely to be unenforceable anyway? This is scare tactics, but be prepared for more. Ignore the rest about enforcement of a Court Judgment, for example, as they haven't had Judgment and we'll defend, defend, defend to the hilt before we get there!

 

This will take ages to sort out - don't expect to see a Court date for 4-5 months minimum if it has been issued. Then there will be hearings all over the place - Allocation hearing, Directions hearing, Disclosure, oh it goes on and on. The joy of litigation!

 

Keep an eye on that letterbox and post up what you get ASAP as we need to consider responses and ensure we hit the Courts deadlines properly.

[trevor33]

I've seen a letter on CAG somewhere about acknowledge of letter befor action and asking for all the info under pre-action protocols of the Civil Procedure Rules.

Should I send this or wait and see??

Thanx T33

[car2403]

You'll need the claim form before sending that, but yes that is the next step - you're just slightly ahead of yourself there

[trevor33]

OK, will wait for the mail and post up what we get.

[trevor33]

You'll need the claim form before sending that, but yes that is the next step - you're just slightly ahead of yourself there

Received poc from Weightmans today.......doesn't make sense to me.....all different amounts on form. Oh well.

What next?

 

regards T33

[car2403]

What have you received? Claim form? N1?

 

Can you post up the POC?

[trevor33]

Received claim form.....trying to post up. Forgot to blank out account no. Photobucket does not seem to want to make the changes for me. Will post up asap.