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Sharkie - V - M & S Money (HSBC)


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One day my wife was stopped in store and asked if she had an M & S card, she was asked if she would like to apply for a new version that would offer much better facilities, which she did.

The new card which did not replace the old, was a standard credit card "fronted" by M & S but actually a wholly owned subsidiary of HSBC.

I sent off a S.A.R. on 22nd January and the pack arrived today, very quick, although I will now have to check that everything is there.

I am also suspicious that the application process and paperwork may not be completely correct, I also have sent a CCA request, which also arrived.

As far as the CCA they feel they have satisfied everything and the agreement is enforceable, something I never questioned during the request, however, what they have sent is a copy of the application form which has not been counter signed by anybody.

I will have to upload it for advise.

Sharkie

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Guest louis wu

There is a huge debate about this subject, and the whole application form/agreement issue has/is been discussed at length.

 

Have a good look, because as far as I'm concerned, a counter signature is essential to make it legitimate.

 

good luck

 

louis

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Cheers Louis

 

Charges information apears complete, so the spreadsheet will be completed and sent of this week.

 

What is the easiest way to upload the application form and terms.

 

Sharkie

 

Sharkie - V - Woolwich = Won

Sharkie - V - Sainsbury's Visa = Won

Sharkie - V - HSBC = Won

Sharkie - V - Halifax = Won

Sharkie - V - MBNA = Won

 

 

If this has been of any help, and or support click on the scales.

Sharkie

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If you have already scanned it into your computer, then I would upload it to a site such as photobucket and then copy and paste onto your thread. I'm not a computer expert, but this is how I did mine. Hopefully some exceptionally smart computer person may come along and say a easier/different way to do it.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]If you think my post was helpful, please feel free to click my scales

 

 

A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.

 

:D

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Jowalshy

 

That seems to be the most popular way, I will give it a go, unless as you say someone knows a better answer.

 

cheers

 

Sharkie

 

Sharkie - V - Woolwich = Won

Sharkie - V - Sainsbury's Visa = Won

Sharkie - V - HSBC = Won

Sharkie - V - Halifax = Won

Sharkie - V - MBNA = Won

 

 

If this has been of any help, and or support click on the scales.

Sharkie

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This is what we received from our CCA request, a copy of a copy of the application form filled in in store it even has a copy of the instructions, and is not counter signed.

 

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh269/The_Sharkie/MS2.jpg

 

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh269/The_Sharkie/MS1.jpg

 

 

Sharkie

 

Sharkie - V - Woolwich = Won

Sharkie - V - Sainsbury's Visa = Won

Sharkie - V - HSBC = Won

Sharkie - V - Halifax = Won

Sharkie - V - MBNA = Won

 

 

If this has been of any help, and or support click on the scales.

Sharkie

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I would say, if that had been countersigned it would have constituted a true copy of your executed account agreement.

 

Its a bit difficult to tell from your photo but it looks to be a full set of terms and conditions with places for the clients signature (does it have a date on it anywhere? typically they don't) but as its unsigned its not executed and therefore has about as much meaning as a copy of the Beano.

 

pete

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Thanks for the reply Pete

The copy we received is poor, the actual size is approxiamately A5 across an A4 piece of paper, the print is so fine you can just make it out with a magnifiyng glass because the copy is so poor.

The form was filled in by a store person, the first part (with the instructions) has thier name, store number, and employee number, the rest is my wifes details and our bank account, the second part, has some key information (wether its full T & C's I don't know) but is not counter signed by anyone representing M&S Money.

 

As a note, I was the key name on the original store card that they explained this was replacing, wich it didn't.

 

Since we one our claim against our very old closed account with HSBC these have begun to be a real pain, lowering our limit and then asking us to immediately pay the difference.

 

Sharkie

 

Sharkie - V - Woolwich = Won

Sharkie - V - Sainsbury's Visa = Won

Sharkie - V - HSBC = Won

Sharkie - V - Halifax = Won

Sharkie - V - MBNA = Won

 

 

If this has been of any help, and or support click on the scales.

Sharkie

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Thanks for the reply Pete

The copy we received is poor, the actual size is approximately A5 across an A4 piece of paper, the print is so fine you can just make it out with a magnifying glass because the copy is so poor.

The form was filled in by a store person, the first part (with the instructions) has their name, store number, and employee number, the rest is my wife's details and our bank account, the second part, has some key information (whether its full T & C's I don't know) but is not counter signed by anyone representing M&S Money.

 

As a note, I was the key name on the original store card that they explained this was replacing, which it didn't.

 

Since we won our claim against our very old closed account with HSBC these have begun to be a real pain, lowering our limit and then asking us to immediately pay the difference.

Sharkie

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  • 1 month later...

Having not received any further information following our CCA request, I made them an offer to settle the account.

I went through all the statements added up all purchases and drawings made on the account since it had been opened I then subtracted all payments made and then added interest at the current base rate, and offered them this figure as an ex-gratia full and final settlement of the account.

This offer was made on the clear understanding that, if accepted, neither them nor any associate company, or third party would take any other action to enforce or pursue the debt in any way whatsoever and that we would be released of any liability.

 

I also insisted that, if accepted, they could make only two entries on a credit reference agency file relating to the above account the initial opening and one of "satisfied" in full.

I have just received the reply.

They state

"we have examined this agreement and account and are satisfied that we have a legally enforceable agreement with you and this, at the least, is evidenced by your use of the account and receipt of credit funds."

They say they are prepared to accept my offer "as final payment" and then state

"May I also remind you that as the Terms and Conditions of each Credit Agreement will not have been fulfilled, as not all of the money owed will have been fully repaid, this will reflect on your file with Credit Reference Agencies."

"The balance will be recorded as defaulted on your file with the Credit Reference Agencies. Once payment has been received, the default will show as satisfied but an indicator will show that we have agreed to accept a smaller sum on the account in settlement."

Now this is almost there, it equals £1358.41 worth of interest and £241.50 worth of charges a total of £1599.91, I have offered £189.56 in interest a net result of £1410.35, the charges and interest would not have topped £500.00.

I still want them to accept this as full and final, and as I do not believe they have an enforceable agreement, there are no terms and conditions to fulfill, therefore they should mark our credit file as satisfied in full.

So do I hold out or accept it as a good win.

Sharkie

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Thanks Pete

 

I agree there are arguments on both sides, if there is no enforceable agreement then no terms and conditions need to be fulfilled.

You cannot deny you owe something, you can only question the structure of the debt, and how, and when you agreed to that structure, or can they simply say you used the facility therefore you agree to the terms and conditions.

 

If it is the latter then them accepting my offer is a good win and I should take it.

 

We have always paid, so I was initially only going for the charges, but I had a feeling that the account opening was not correct, which led me down the other route.

 

My concern is, I wanted it as "satisfied in full" I am not sure how much weight is carried by their suggested notification which will end up on our file.

Sharkie

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I think your decision also has to take account of how much notice the people who refer to your credit file take of actually whats written there. I suspect they look for the words default and CCJ and ignore whatever else is there :rolleyes:.

 

You could try one last letter saying you are confident that you would win a court case and prove they have no enforceable agreement and you take the fact that they are prepared to accept your offer "as final payment" is an indication of the weakness of their argument.

 

In this instance as no Terms and Conditions exist for this Credit Agreement their is nothing to fulfill, and further to this processing any data referring to me will be an offense and any transmittal to the Credit Reference Agencies will be reported to the FOS as a breach of terms of your credit license.

 

or something like that :grin:

 

pete

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I agree Pete

 

I will send one more letter as your suggestion, I am pretty sure that an "S" as in satisfied is a a good mark on a credit file as you say 1, 2, 3's for missed payments or defaults and CCJ's are what is generally looked for.

Sharkie

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  • 2 months later...

Latest

 

Well no reply from my letter, so I have sent a new one confirming my offer, with copies to everyone right up the ladder, which went by fax and post on Monday 16th.

 

On Saturday 21st I received a letter dated 18th (one of three that day, see other threads) from Moorcroft Debt Recovery, stating their client had instructed them to contact me, Blah Blah, pay up or else.

 

As the account is clearly in dispute and they have failed to answer my letter, but had accepted my offer in principal, Moorcroft have been faxed and sent a letter telling them to wind their necks in, and not to contact me again.

 

Now another letter to M & S Money, M & S plc, and of course HSBC.

Sharkie

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