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Help with First Credit/Lloyds TSB Credit card couty court case please


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Firstly, apologies to mods for posting again, its just that my original thread has repeated info and is all over the place and i thought that A i may get more help with all the info presented correctly and B all the info in ine place may help others better.




  • The debt was originally owed on a Lloyds TSB Credit card and was defaulted 2002.
  • First credit contacted me in October 2006 and i have been trying to arrange an affordable repayment plan with them since that date.
  • I recieved a county court form from First Credit on the 8th January 2008. The amount is £2610 inc costs (debt is for 2460). and the claim was filed in the Northampton Bulk court
  • Claim was acknowledged on MCOL on 9th January 2008 and defence is due on Saturday 9th February 2008 - However i want to get it posted on the 5th February 2008.
  • On 9th January 2008 i posted a CCA request to First Credit ( along with £1 postal order) and a CPR request to First Credits legal team, LCS. Both letters were recieved and signed for on the 10th January 2008 and to date i have not recieved a reply to either or any other correspondance.

I am more than happy to go to court regarding this and if im truthfull im not overly bothered of which way it goes. From my point of view if no cca can be produced and i win then fine but if the worse hapenns and i lose then i believe the court will only order me to pay what i can afford - which is what ive spent a year + arguing for with First credit.


my letter history with First Credit:


10/10/2006 - Letter from First Credit introducing themselves and telling me they have been assigned a loyds TSB debt of £2460.10 in my name and that i should contact them immediatly etc.


22/10/2006 - I reply with a payment proposal of £5 a month for 3 months and then i would review the monthly amount - i also sent them a statement of my accounts showing all incomings and out goings ( in short wife earns i dont due to child care and money is VERY tight)


24/10/2006 - letter from First Credit headed LEGAL PROCEEDINGS and stating that if i dont pay immediatly they will seize assets with a bailiff, charging order agianst property etc etc


26/10/2006 - Letter from First Credit headed OFFER REFUSED - we are unwilling to accept this offer as we do not consider it reasonable, oplease phone us etc etc


27/10/2006 - My reply explaining my financial position and offering £5 a month again - i also stated that others had accepted this offer, enclosed a statement of account, and expalined that if they accepted i cwould be able to clear teh debt quicker without extra charges being added etc.


1/11/2006 - Thanks for your recent communications, the contents of which have been noted - please call our office as a matter of urgency to discuss.


3/11/2006 - I phoned First Credit ( big mistake) and was told £30 was the least they would accept. I was also threatened with CCJ's, attachmet of property etc and told i would only recieve two more warning letters before a CCJ would be applied for - I apologised and said i could not afford £30 etc


4/11/2006 - wife took a message from first credit telephone call asking me to phone an individual ( i shant name names) to sort out a suitable repayment pln.


6/11/2006 - Phoned the individual at first credit but was put through to someone else. Exactly the same phone call as before - told only £30 would be suitable, threatened court action etc - ended teh phone call by asking to only be contacted via letter from now on


7/11/2006 - Letter from LCS ( First credits legal arm i think) telling me that unless full payment was made within 14 days they would issue proceedings against me in county court.


9/11/2006 - My reply , yet again explaining how skint i was and that i wanted to pay something to start the ball rolliing etc. I also put in a paragraph lifted from this site regarding the overiding objectives of the new civil procedures rules and how the court will expect both parties to have acted reasonably in trying to avoid the neccesity for starting proceedings etc


13/11/2006 - OFFER REFUSED letter from first credit


14/11/2006 - letter from First credit stating they would accept a full and final payment of £1900


14/11/ 2006 onwards - seal threating phonecalls, was called abusive names by first credit staff, was shouted at down the phone ( so loud that a mate in the same room heard the whole conversation, was called irresponsible for not wanting to sort this out etc. Some of the time i simply put the telephone outside on teh doorstep and left them ranting - other times i switched it off immediatly. I also asked how much for a full and final settlement (with the thought of borriwng the money just so o could get rid of the first credit hassle)


5/12/2006 - Letter from first credit introducing the DEBT HELP TEAM and asking if i hd considered a re mortaging etc


28/12/2006 ( after one too many abusive phone calls) Letter to first credit upping my offer to £15 a month (i got a part time job) and informing in writing that i do not wish to be contacted by telephone and that i would view telephone contact as harrassment etc etc - i also included a £15 cheque to show williing (which was never cashed)


11/01/2007 - OFFER REFUSED letter from first credit


23/02/2007 - after even more abusive calls - letter to first credit again offering £15 and and spelling out the Administration of justice act 1970 - section 40 ( ie they commit an offence if they bully or harrass me) - i also included a list of behaviour by first credit staff which i believed constituted harrassment.


27/02/2007 - letter form first credit - IMPORTANT NOTIFICATION - we have recently obtained office copy entries from the land registry and note that you own / jointly own your property. As a result of this we are now passing your account to our solicitors to secure a CCJ against you and enforce this by way of a final charging order. Should we succed in obtaining a charging order we will give serious cosideration to applying to the court for an order of sale of your property , ETC etc etc


1/3/2007 - OFFER REFUSED letter from first credit


9/7/2007 - I recieve a statury demand notice from LCS and the accompanying letter ask me to phone first credit within 7 days to discuss my proposals for repayment


I ignored this as i did not believe it was genuine ( it may of been though but nevertheless nothing ever came of it)


8/11/2007 - another letter from LCS threatening CCJ and stating interest etc will be added


8/1/2008 - Claim form recieved from northampton court 1st Credit V me


big thanks to B3RTY who has reassured and helped a lot.

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Claimant on the form is First Credit (finance) Ltd with all correspondance to be sent to LCS ( at the same address as 1st credit)


Particulars of Claim that were on the county court claim form:


The defendant was indebted to LLOYDS TSB for credit advanced.

The debt was assigned to the Claimant. Notice of assignment was given to the Defendant.

The Claimant claims the debt due from the defendant of £2460.10 together with interest at the rate of 8% per annum pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 amounting to £247.32 and also claims further interest until judgement or sooner payment at the daily rate of £0.54


My defence so far


  • Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

  • The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

  • The claimants’ particulars of claims disclose no legal cause of action and they are embarrassing to the defendant as the claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised and does not comply or even attempt to comply with CPR part 16. In this regard I wish to draw the courts attention to the following matters;

a) The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the written agreement referred to, the method the claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or any default notices issued or any other matters necessary to substantiate the claimant’s claim.


b) A copy of the purported written agreement that the claimant cites in the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served attached to the claim form.


c) A copy of any evidence of both the scope and nature of any default, and proof of any amount outstanding on the alleged accounts, has not been served attached to the claim form.



4. Consequently, I deny all allegations on the particulars of claim and do not know what case I have to meet.



5. In respect of that which is denied, on 09/01/2008 I requested that the claimant provide a true copy of the executed credit agreement, which they claim exists between parties pursuant to section 78(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1569) sets out that the claimant must comply with such request in 12 working days of receipt of such request. To date this request has been ignored and i have not recieved a true copy of the executed, alleged credit agreement.



  • On 09/01/2008 I requested the disclosure of information pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules, which is vital to this case from the claimant. The information requested amounted to copies of the Credit Agreement referred to in the particulars of claim and any default or termination notices, a transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, alleged repayments by myself and payments made by the original creditor. Also any other documents the Claimant seeks to rely on, including any default notices or termination notice, and a list of charges applied to the account.

7. To Date the claimant has ignored my request under the CPR and I have not received any such documentation requested. As a result it has proven difficult to compose this defence without disclosure of the information requested


  • It is neither admitted or denied that any Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant.

  • Notwithstanding point 8, I put the claimant to strict proof that any default notice sent to me was valid. I note that to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237)

  • Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255) but is a unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt, but would also give rise to a potential counterclaim for damages where damage occurs to my credit rating (Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society - [1996] 4 All ER 119)

  • Without Disclosure of the relevant requested documentation I am unable to asses if I am indeed liable to the claimant, nor am I able to asses if the alleged agreement is properly executed, contain the required prescribed terms, or correct figures to make such an agreement enforceable by virtue of s127 Consumer Credit Act 1974

  • In view of the matters pleaded above, I respectfully request that the court gives consideration to whether the claimant’s statement of case should be struck out as disclosing no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim, and/or that it fails to comply with CPR Part 16.

  • Alternatively, I respectfully request a stay in proceedings until such time as the claimant complies with the requests outlined in paragraph 9 above or until the court orders its compliance with the same. I will then be in a position to file a fully particularised defence and counterclaim and will seek the courts permission to amend my statement of case accordingly.

  • In addition I respectfully request that the court consider ordering this agreement unenforceable pursuant to s127 (3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for the reasons previously stated .In addition it is drawn to the courts attention that schedule 3, s11 of the Consumer Credit Act 2006 prevents s15 repealing s127 (3) of the 1974 Act for agreements made before s15 came into effect since the agreement is alleged to have commenced in xx/xx/xxx the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is the relevant act in this case.



Statement of Truth



I, believe the above statement to be true and factual



Signed …………………




Am i in the right ball area with the defence ? would this be suficent ?

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i assume this is the same case as you PM'd me about the other evenign


if it is, dont worry, i am aware you need to get your defence sorted, i will help you with it but it wont be til the weekend im afraid




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i assume this is the same case as you PM'd me about the other evenign


if it is, dont worry, i am aware you need to get your defence sorted, i will help you with it but it wont be til the weekend im afraid





Sorry paul, Yep im panicking lol - start a job tommorrow so my free time is gonna shoot down and this is all new so lots to take in and try to understand.


No worries though i can wait and dont want to be pushy

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not a problem, most people do,


however, i will do my best to get a defence posted by the end of play friday.


however if this is not possible i will get something posted by close of play sunday

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hi scoterooney


have they complied to your cca request


if they have not responded in 12 days +2 then they are in default if it then goes a further calander month then they are in summary default


if i am right until they comply with your cca request no action can be taken on it


im sure if anything i have said is wrong one of the more experienced caggers will correct me as i am only speaking from my own experience


regards petrified

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just found this thread and want to offer moral support. I am in a tussle with the same company and it looks like I will be heading for court soon so if you don't mind I will watch your case with interest and hopefully learn something as well. I am a bit stuck on what to do next so the advice you are getting is great. Good luck in your new job. :)


Just like you I have 2 threads relating to this company due too it taking different turns. If anybody wants to take a look I would be most grateful.

"Lloyds buys back debt to swallow up refund". is the latest. Sorry for a bit of a hijack but I am a bit desperate lol!

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