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    • just to clarify one matter everyone....   the statement that 'all road markings within any private land/carpark are mere tarmac graffiti is quite correct.   for dedicated use bays - there has to be a clearly visible sign(s) if one parks in those bays, which must be covered by the relevant council planning permission for poles+signs and elsewhere there must be a sign that details their usage conditions/contract.   dx
    • Don't worry, we're getting there bit by bit.   Tomorrow evening I'll try to deal with your questions.   The photos you've taken are superb - they show the signs as tiny and not illuminated.    
    • Good thinking! I only requested the telephone hearing (in the body of the email) and will send the further note tomorrow to cover all bases!
    • @FTMDave i am attaching the photographs of the Alama park please have a look. Checking your previous post where you corrected some line and suggest some but i could not understand. Is it possible if you edit and delete irrelevant lines.    I have edited little bit but not sure what to add and what to look for   Mr XXX, of xxx and I am the Defendant against whom this claim is made. 1.1. I was the registered keeper of the vehicle XXX. 1.2. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge they are true to the best of my information and belief.   INSUFFICIENT & CONFUSING SIGNAGE  This is likely to be one of your aces so will need a lot of work once you get photos.  The fleecers have also shown a plan where they claim there are signs (their WS post 12, PDF page 15 which you need to confront).   2. I confirm that i was the registered Keeper of the vehicle which is in question in this case and the vehicle was parked in Alma leisure centre Chesterfield. The vehicle was parked there because the driver went to McDonald’s for eat in (the bank statement proof exhibit 1).   3. There were no clear signs at the entrance nor in the car park, it was night time and weather was not clear as well.   3.  Even if the driver had seen the signs, they would have been extremely confusing.  A car is normally allowed to be parked for five hours, yet after midnight this is changed to one hour.  This begs the question for how long a motorist entering at 10pm for example is allowed to stay.  Is it for five hours until 3am or until 1am?   3.1. The PCN/NTK states "period of parking 00:02:05".  It is common sense that a couple of minutes was needed to enter the complex, find McDonald's and find a parking space, before the period of parking began, so it was likely the car entered the car park before midnight allowing the driver to park the car there for five hours.   4.  Even if the driver had seen the signage - they did not - the mention of a £100 charge is literally the last word on the last line of a long board of text.   4. I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed, or any amount at all and this is my Witness Statement in support of my defence as already filed.     UNFAIR TERM   4.  In an interview with the local newspaper (exhibit XXX) Ms Ellie Berkeley, HX PCN administration team leader, said: “The five-hour maximum stay prevents workers from close by abusing the land and parking there for free, without using the shops on site" which makes sense.   5.  This therefore begs the question of why this limit is cut by a massive 80% after midnight when the cinema and eateries are still open.  The driver indeed ate at McDonald's.   6.  Ms Berkeley continued: "Five hours is sufficient time to visit the cinema and also eat at a restaurant".  Certainly five hours are sufficient.  One hour is not.    7.  I would maintain this is an unfair term under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 part 2 section 62 (6) ""A notice is unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations to the detriment of the consumer".  Such a term has absolutely nothing to do with efficient management of a car park and everything to do with trying to catch diners or cinema-goers out and thus have an excuse to issue PCNs.   NO KEEPER LIABILITY   5. The Particulars of Claim do not clarify in what capacity they believe I am liable but state that the Defendant is “liable as the driver or keeper” of the vehicle. This appears to be “fishing” for liability.  Is this really in the PoCs? - you need to look and find out. Where to look on PCN letter?   The rest of your section is about the use of POFA at airports which is completely irrelevant.    Adapt LFI's suggestions re POFA and keeper liability -   First is the fact that they must have a parking period and it is quite clear that entering and leaving the car park does not constitute a parking period since some of the time the motorist is either driving around looking for a parking spot then leaving the spot and driving to the exit. All that takes time so that is one fail.   The other fail is in their wording when they are trying to transfer the liability of the alleged debt from the driver to the keeper. They are supposed to include at Schedule 4 s9 [2][f] this "(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)". That in itself makes it non compliant but the fact that they haven't got a parking period means they haven't met the applicable conditions.   PROHIBITION  This deals with no stopping cases.  Yours in not no stopping so it is completely irrelevant.   LOCUS STANDI   You have quoted a different contract in a different place with a different PPC.  You need to read and try to find holes in the contract they produced (post 12, page 15 of the PDF for anyone looking in). What shall i add here   Adapt LFI's suggestions -   Looking at their contract, the names of the signatories and their positions in their respective  companies have been redacted. You do need strict proof of who actually signed. There is no specific authorisation from the Client to allow Court action in pursuit of non payers. In section 11 which is like an addendum it states" the Company shall provide parking control" but doesn't state if that includes legal pursuit as well and it does not appear to be signed.   ILLEGAL SIGNAGE   8. After checking, I have found out that there in NO planning permission granted for said signs, therefore making them illegal as lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under the Road Traffic Acts 1962 and 1991 and no contract can be performed where criminality is concerned.   LFI's suggestion -   They are supposed to comply with the Law and the IPC code of Conduct and they have done neither. The new Private Parking Code of Practice  draws attention to it as well  s14.1 [g]  "g) responsibility for obtaining relevant consents e.g. planning or advertising consents relating to signs."   ABUSE OF PROCESS  I've cut some bits out as the CoP hadn't been published when the fleecers went after you.  Are you sure the Unicorn Food Tax in the PoCs is £60? ( I couldn't understand this)   9. The Claimant seeks recovery of the original £100 parking charge plus an additional £60 described as “contractual costs and interest” or “debt collection costs”. No further justification or breakdown has been provided as required under Civil Procedure Rule 16.4.    9.1. As part of the provisions of the Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019, on 07/02/2022 a new Code of Practice was published by the government, designed to prevent these “rogue” traders from "ripping people off" (the minister's words) with extra charges, which have been deemed unfair (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/privateparking-code-of-practice/private-parking-code-of-practice).    9.3. Section 9 of the new Code of Practice, regulates the matter of recovery costs: “The parking operator must not levy additional costs over and above the level of a parking charge or parking tariff as originally issued.”   9.2. Even before publication of the government’s Code of Practice, Parliament intended that private parking companies could not invent extra charges. PoFA Schedule 4, paragraph 4(5) states that “The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper is the amount specified in the notice to keeper” which in this case is £100.    9.4. Previous parking charge cases have found that the parking charge itself is at a level to include the costs of recovery ie: Parking Eye Ltd vs Beavis (2015) UKSC 67 which is the authority for recovery of the parking charge itself and no more, since that sum (£85) was held to already incorporate the costs of an automated private parking business model and the Supreme Court Judges held that a parking firm not in possession cannot plead any part of their case in damages. It is indisputable that an alleged “parking charge” penalty is a sum which the Supreme Court found is already inflated to more than comfortably cover all costs. The case provides a finding of fact by way of precedent, that the £85 (or up to a Trade Body ceiling of £100 depending on the parking firm) covers the costs of the letters. Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated ‘’Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones-Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates [...] in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared [...] the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.’’    9.5. In Claim numbers F0DP806M and F0DP201T, Britannia vs Crosby the courts went further in a landmark judgement in November 2019 which followed several parking charge claims being struck out in the area overseen by His Honour Judge Iain HamiltonDouglas Hughes GC, the Designated Civil Judge for Dorset, Hampshire, Isle of Wight & Wiltshire. District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ‘’It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in ParkingEye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''    9.6. The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.     Statement of Truth    Alma Leisure.pdf Alma leisure centre.pdf
    • One thing I forgot to mention is I'm in Scotland, does the process change or is it then same? 
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Club La Costa - sound or con?


benjy48
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Hi all

 

what a relief to see I'm not the only one !!

Same story here .. been told a pack of big fat lies in the presentation, signed and only now I see what I've signed up to !

 

There are lots of people out there who feel that they have been conned by CLC . My advice would be to contact www. Timeshare Consumers Association , ( TCA ). When you ring them up they will point you in the right direction.

Also read other posts on other sites www.moneysavingexpert.com

 

go to praise vent and warnings on there.

also www.timesharetalkforums.com

 

Plenty of reading on those sites wish I had seen them years ago !!!!!!!

Good Luck.

Edited by mustang67
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my wife got a phone call saying she entered a competition online and she had won a holiday. all we need to do is go to a 2 hour exhibition to claim it. i know this is a timeshare thing but i WONT be buying one. all i want to know is has anyone went to this thing and got the free holiday, i know its not free cause you have have to pay booking fee of £29 and airport taxes. i can handle paying £60ish to go on holiday for a week to tenerife and i know i would loose half a day listening to their shpiel again but as i said i WONT be signing up for anything.

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hi well clc/ge money are useless after notifying g e that i had joined cag they sold my debt to link financial who have now taken me to court and i have a ccj by default which i am appealing to set aside so i can defend my case and win we need to fight as agroup against clc and g e money my email address is [email protected] world.com please join and we will win

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my wife got a phone call saying she entered a competition online and she had won a holiday. all we need to do is go to a 2 hour exhibition to claim it. i know this is a timeshare thing but i WONT be buying one. all i want to know is has anyone went to this thing and got the free holiday, i know its not free cause you have have to pay booking fee of £29 and airport taxes. i can handle paying £60ish to go on holiday for a week to tenerife and i know i would loose half a day listening to their shpiel again but as i said i WONT be signing up for anything.

 

What firm is it ?

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hi well clc/ge money are useless after notifying g e that i had joined cag they sold my debt to link financial who have now taken me to court and i have a ccj by default which i am appealing to set aside so i can defend my case and win we need to fight as agroup against clc and g e money my email address is [email protected] world.com please join and we will win

 

Am in same situation, GE sold mine to Link but so far have not paid them a penny 12 months down the line.

Did you send them 'Gross Misrepresentation letter ' ?

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hi well clc/ge money are useless after notifying g e that i had joined cag they sold my debt to link financial who have now taken me to court and i have a ccj by default which i am appealing to set aside so i can defend my case and win we need to fight as agroup against clc and g e money my email address is [email protected] world.com please join and we will win

 

Has there been any response ?

Edited by mustang67
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Hi

Yes, I've been to this site before and tried to cancel my membership with CLC ( obviously thye are not accepting my reasoning !) and cancelled my direct debit with bank. My loan provider was barclays partners and not GE Money. They are not accepting my reasoning either and now they are threatening me with debt collectors ...

As far as I know TCA are planning to start a court action against banks who support CLC, but it may take a while.

I agree with accra, maybe we should act as a group and start something ourselves ?

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It would be good if people could get together over this, but there does seem a reluctance for anyone (myself included ) to give your true identity away. Some posters may be false etc. !!!!

I myself have contacted TCA and have been told that any action will come later, but how much later ?

My loan for CLC has been sold on to the usual suspects. Am keeping them at bay at the moment, but a mass action would certainly help.

 

Any ideas on how to get one started ? :)

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We feel a huge weight has lifted from our shoulders - contact timeshare.org today to join the list and save yourselves thousands. We too felt like we are trapped but now we are going to follow advise and stop paying immediately. There is light at the end of this very dark tunnel x x x Thanks to everyone especially mustang x x x x

 

Hi

am in the same boat, stopped paying to the bank and they now bombard me with letters and I get 5 phonecalls a day ! ( though I did send them the gross misrepresenation letter - they just don't care).

i wonder - is the website you menioned timeshareconsumergroup.com ? where do i find the list to sign up ?

 

thanks

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The site you want is Timeshare Consumer Association (TCA)

On there you will find contact No. Just tell them your situation regarding CLC. Was told last week by them that action could take place later in the year. The sooner the better!!!

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my wife got a phone call saying she entered a competition online and she had won a holiday. all we need to do is go to a 2 hour exhibition to claim it. i know this is a timeshare thing but i WONT be buying one. all i want to know is has anyone went to this thing and got the free holiday, i know its not free cause you have have to pay booking fee of £29 and airport taxes. i can handle paying £60ish to go on holiday for a week to tenerife and i know i would loose half a day listening to their shpiel again but as i said i WONT be signing up for anything.

 

Make sure you take no means of payment with you in the UK. Try and avoid the sales spiel until the last minute when in Tenerife or the Costa Del Sol (it is always Tenerife or the Costa Del Sol) - feign illness - anything to avoid them.

 

Ask how long the spiel will last and keep looking at your watch.

 

Read a book. Keep forgetting the appointment. LIE TO THEM because sure as hell they will lie to you!!

 

Go individually - just one person feigns illness - and say you have to discuss it with your partner.

 

Personally I wouldn't give them smallpox.

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Make sure you take no means of payment with you in the UK. Try and avoid the sales spiel until the last minute when in Tenerife or the Costa Del Sol (it is always Tenerife or the Costa Del Sol) - feign illness - anything to avoid them.

 

Ask how long the spiel will last and keep looking at your watch.

 

Read a book. Keep forgetting the appointment. LIE TO THEM because sure as hell they will lie to you!!

 

Go individually - just one person feigns illness - and say you have to discuss it with your partner.

 

Personally I wouldn't give them smallpox.

 

Excellent reply. To any one tempted ,dont do it, it is quite easy to get sucked in. Just spend your money on a normal holiday. But watch out for the scratchcard [problem] if you go abroad, these [problematic] are all over the place.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Please, Please, Please do not be fooled by these con men.

 

We were. Fortunately we only paid for a Trial Membership (which we got for less than £3000)

 

The holiday for 4 at £29.50 each - CON - when you try to book it for 4, after already having paid the 4 x £29.50 - you end up with a further bill for about £600 for so called taxes etc. Enough said, we didn't take it.

 

Yes, your introductory week at California Suites in the Costa del Sol will lull you into a false sense of security. It's beautiful. 5 star all the way. This is what they claim to be selling - a 5 star holiday experience for life for about £20 grand! CON - we went to Tenerife with them to Paradise Club, most definately a 3 star experience. We booked for Bali, but the brochure accommadation was not available. We had to pay an additional £100 to book via their Worldwide facitily. Have just returned from beautiful Bali - but the apartment was definately 2 star.

 

We booked to go to the Monterey in Tenerife next February for one week because we were told it is 5 star. After we booked a one bed apartment our son decided he would like to come with a friend. I rang to upgrade to a 2 bed apartment. I was told sorry there were non available, but they could let me have an additional apartment for my son. I booked it. I have just found out that because we took a second apartment we have lost our final week ( I understand the logic, but wasn't told at the time - I still thought I had a week left.)

 

I am yet to find out if Monterey is as 5 star as Calafornia Suites.

 

Please dont be conned by these people. They do have SOME 5 star places, but claim in the extremely hard sell (which you have to go through every time you book a week though them) that in buying into Club la Costa you are buying into a 5 star holiday dream for life

 

This is completely untrue - out of my 6 total weeks, so far 3 have been well below what my husband and I would usually travel to.

 

Also, while there is no maintenance involved in the Trial Membership, we were told by a couple who are on the Points system on our very first visit that they had bought in 9 years ago and were paying about £300 in maintenance per year and were told it would never go up very much. They are now paying just short of £1,000 per year in mainteneance.

 

Save yourself money and grief. Book a great 5 star holilday through a travel agent and get what you really pay for

 

We are.

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Please, Please, Please do not be fooled by these con men.

 

 

 

We were. Fortunately we only paid for a Trial Membership (which we got for less than £3000)

 

The holiday for 4 at £29.50 each - CON - when you try to book it for 4, after already having paid the 4 x £29.50 - you end up with a further bill for about £600 for so called taxes etc. Enough said, we didn't take it.

 

Yes, your introductory week at California Suites in the Costa del Sol will lull you into a false sense of security. It's beautiful. 5 star all the way. This is what they claim to be selling - a 5 star holiday experience for life for about £20 grand! CON - we went to Tenerife with them to Paradise Club, most definately a 3 star experience. We booked for Bali, but the brochure accommadation was not available. We had to pay an additional £100 to book via their Worldwide facitily. Have just returned from beautiful Bali - but the apartment was definately 2 star.

 

We booked to go to the Monterey in Tenerife next February for one week because we were told it is 5 star. After we booked a one bed apartment our son decided he would like to come with a friend. I rang to upgrade to a 2 bed apartment. I was told sorry there were non available, but they could let me have an additional apartment for my son. I booked it. I have just found out that because we took a second apartment we have lost our final week ( I understand the logic, but wasn't told at the time - I still thought I had a week left.)

 

I am yet to find out if Monterey is as 5 star as Calafornia Suites.

 

Please dont be conned by these people. They do have SOME 5 star places, but claim in the extremely hard sell (which you have to go through every time you book a week though them) that in buying into Club la Costa you are buying into a 5 star holiday dream for life

 

This is completely untrue - out of my 6 total weeks, so far 3 have been well below what my husband and I would usually travel to.

 

Also, while there is no maintenance involved in the Trial Membership, we were told by a couple who are on the Points system on our very first visit that they had bought in 9 years ago and were paying about £300 in maintenance per year and were told it would never go up very much. They are now paying just short of £1,000 per year in mainteneance.

 

Save yourself money and grief. Book a great 5 star holilday through a travel agent and get what you really pay for

 

 

We are.

 

Agree with everything you say. Do not be tempted, you can book better places through a Travel Agent without the hassle of sleazy timeshare reps trying to sign you up.

If you do go to Monteray it is at the top of a steep hill, you have been warned!!!!!!! Have been there and the FREE breakfast is at the Paradise. Do not go to that. Would not rate it as 5 star.

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yeah .. have I known it earlier .. After my battles with the bank when I was trying to cancel my loan on the grounds of misrepresentation, they have passed my "debt" to debt collecting agency who are now calling me every day , even to my work number ! very annoying and embarassing !

is anyone in a similar situation, ie. stopped paying the loan and is now being threatened by a court action by debt collectors ?

I start losing my nerves ..

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yeah .. have I known it earlier .. After my battles with the bank when I was trying to cancel my loan on the grounds of misrepresentation, they have passed my "debt" to debt collecting agency who are now calling me every day , even to my work number ! very annoying and embarassing !

is anyone in a similar situation, ie. stopped paying the loan and is now being threatened by a court action by debt collectors ?

I start losing my nerves ..

 

Hi there,I am in same situation with a DCA concerning CLC. Have had many threats over the years, but nothing has happened even though I have paid nothing. Hang on in there. The way I look at it is that the original lender has passed on the debt of over 20 grand to a DCA because they must have know that they are on sticky ground because of the 'Gross Misrepresentation' allegation. So it is now in the hands of a DCA and I have started the same process against them. During all this my Credit rating has been shot to pieces, but this is a small price to pay to get this debt wiped out. Have been in touch recently with the TCA and they said that a Group Action against CLC and lenders should start shortly.

If you are getting phone calls of the DCA there is a letter template in the letters sectionon this site that you can send to them. That should stop the calls.

Have you sent the 'Misrepresentation' letter to the DCA ? If not send it as soon as possible.

 

Hold your nerve and hang on in there.:)

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Hi there,I am in same situation with a DCA concerning CLC. Have had many threats over the years, but nothing has happened even though I have paid nothing. Hang on in there. The way I look at it is that the original lender has passed on the debt of over 20 grand to a DCA because they must have know that they are on sticky ground because of the 'Gross Misrepresentation' allegation. So it is now in the hands of a DCA and I have started the same process against them. During all this my Credit rating has been shot to pieces, but this is a small price to pay to get this debt wiped out. Have been in touch recently with the TCA and they said that a Group Action against CLC and lenders should start shortly.

If you are getting phone calls of the DCA there is a letter template in the letters sectionon this site that you can send to them. That should stop the calls.

Have you sent the 'Misrepresentation' letter to the DCA ? If not send it as soon as possible.

 

Hold your nerve and hang on in there.:)

 

Hi Mustang, thanks for your help, it's a real support !

I just wanted to share my latest experience - I spoke to Mercers ( DCA dealing with my case, I have loan with barclays partners) and told them AGAIN that I am still disputing the decision etc. told them about misrepresentaion ( also sent letter but it does not seem to have helped) and ... they told me that since I am refusing to pay, the nest step will be a doorstep visit !! What's enough is enough, now I am well annoyed ! From what I have seen on this site, it does not seem to be quite legal is it ?

This bloody CLC story is starting ruining my life ..

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My DCA has made that threat, but a DCA can only call at your house if you have made an appointment with them. If and it will be a BIG IF, if anyone turns up tell them to take a hike or you will have them for tresspass.

 

Yeah, for all the pleasure that CLC promise you your life is turned upside down because of the lying b******s.

I was in dispute with original lender but they still sold it on. All quiet at the moment, no one has turned up so thats another broken promise !!!!!!!!

Keep us posted of any developments

Cheers

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  • 1 month later...
The site you want is Timeshare Consumer Association (TCA)

On there you will find contact No. Just tell them your situation regarding CLC. Was told last week by them that action could take place later in the year. The sooner the better!!!

 

Hi Mustang

 

I was wondering if you had any more news on the court action by TCA at all ? I had an email from them a few weeks ago, that it will be probably early next year before a decision is made whether the action is to be started or not... Have you had any update maybe ?

My DCA are threatening me with a court action if i don't pay the whole amount ( over £ 16k) within a week ! good laugh.

I also sent CLC a letter saying i'm not paying the maintenance fee.. just waiting on e reply though i know what they will say anyway.

CLC - the worst mistake of my life !

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Hi Majka,

Have heard nothing since last posting. But am hanging on. My DCA has also rejected the Misrepresentation letter, but that was to be expected.

They are blaming CLC for not replying to my complaints but in my book the original lender and now the DCA is equally responsible for the misselling.

 

I think if they had a cast iron case it would have been in Court years ago.

When they ring me up again I am going to ask for an out of Court settlement !!!!!

Try to keep your DCA at bay,most of their letters are just threats, full of maybe's and might do's. ;)

 

As I have mentioned previously stopped paying the maintenance fees a few years ago. Glad to see you are going to stop them as well.

 

Will be glad when the whole sorry saga is over. CLC was the worse mistake of my life as well.

 

It's all quiet on the other CLC Forums as well.

Will keep you posted if I hear anything.

Cheers. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

 

Glad and also sorry to see so many people in this miserable CLC 'boat'. After last outrageous Maintenance bill have decided to not pay it and to cancel our DD to CLC - which GE Money are charging exorbitant interest on. Like many of you, CLC is without doubt my worst ever decision.

 

Can't face another holiday spoiled by a session in the 'Glengarry Suite'. If they just delivered - let alone over-delivered - on the promise, then the existing membership could be the best unpaid sales force on earth. Instead they inflict 'Swiss Tony' on us, and this forum is the result.

 

Grateful to Mustang for the great input into this, and I hope we will all be OK in the end. I think I need to send that 'Gross Misrepresentation' to CLC and to GE. Where do I access that please?

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