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Bullied - what to do next?


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I have made a complaint of bullying against a senior colleague and have been offered the opportunity to have a meeting with that individual, a manger and HR to try and resolve the issues.

 

I don't fancy sitting in a room discussing it all with the person present as I feel upset just thinking about it.

 

Do I have to do this? What are the pros/cons. Or what other options do I have?

Poppynurse :)

 

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No you don't have to.

 

However, on a practical level (becoming friends again, working as a team) this could be a good idea, and seems a good idea at informal resolution.

 

The other option is to stick to your guns, and say that you want a formal investigation with suspensions/transfers/etc.

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From your username I wonder if you are in the NHS, an organisation who are usually spectacularly bad at dealing with bullies.

 

It strikes me that this is a way for the employer to fail to deal effectively with bullying whilst giving the impression of taking action.

 

If you don't like the idea (and I wouldn't), ask if either the manager or HR person is a qualified mediator; if not, then suggest that you would be willing to attend a mediation meeting facilitated by someone both independent and suitably qualified.

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Hi Poppy - is this linked to your other thread on employment?

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My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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Hi, yes it is. And yes I'm in the NHS.

 

I've spoken to a respected senior colleague in confidence and they suggest that if I go ahead with this meeting with the untrained mediators (and it won't be someone from HR apparently, just an 'independent' colleague, that the accused will either deny allegations, put on the waterworks or it will deteriorate into a slanging match. And I hate confrontation....But I don't want to be seen as unduly difficult....

Poppynurse :)

 

If my comments have been helpful please click my scales!!!!

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I share your colleague's view.

 

Unfortunately, in many cases like this the employer is more concerned with how things appear (in case of tribunal etc.), than with actually managing the problem. On paper, the victim has been given an opportunity to resolve any issues with the alleged bully, supported by a manager and with an independent witness present.

 

Bullies are usually extremely adept at manipulating situations like this. One of the reasons that they are bullies is to hide their inadequacies, so they are used to appearing to be pleasant and efficient, especially to those above them. Maintaining the appearance of being reasonable and conciliatory at a meeting like this will be childsplay. I can imagine the process:

 

Bully is told by manager that an accusation has been made; the bully will act surprised, and then suggest that the victim is perhaps under stress, or that he/she (the bully) had noticed a recent drop in performance, implying that the victim is trying to cover something up. At the meeting, the bully is gushing to the others who are present, appears immensely concerned about the victims welfare, is desperately sorry that efficient management has been perceived as bullying, and is keen (in the most patronising way) to do anything necessary to help the poor victim who is obviously suffering from stress. If these tactics don't seem to be working, the tears and 'all my years of helping people' ploys will be rolled out. Knowing glances will be directed at the others, in a 'we're all managers, so we understand these things' way. The aim is to make the victim appear unreasonable, and reinforce their victim status. The 'mediators' leave the meeting feeling that they've done their bit, and glad it's over, because they probably know that the bully is a bully.

 

It's worth remembering, because you'll probably have to remind HR, that what constitutes bullying is the way in which the bully's activity is perceived by their target. What to some might seem like a random collection of minor annoyances may in fact represent a sustained campaign of bullying that has a far-reaching effect on the target. Similarly, what bullies and senior managers often describe as 'a robust management style' can make people's lives miserable.

 

What meetings like this do not achieve is any sort of investigation into bullying behaviour, or any subsequent disciplinary action. The NHS tends to follow the path of least resistance, often moving the victim rather than dealing with the bully; when the number of complaints about a bully can no longer be ignored, the bully is promoted, and the whole cycle begins again - because bullies always need a target. It has been suggested that in UK bullying is most prevalent in teaching and nursing.

 

Being a bullies target is wretched, and it can be difficult not to doubt your own feelings and ability to deal with things. Rejecting this proposed 'mediation' is your right, just as it is your right not to be bullied, either by an individual or by proxy.

 

The Trust's disciplinary and grievance policies should lay down clear procedures. Additionally, they should have some sort of policy on workplace bullying.

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my pet hate BULLIES one thing i cannot stand is a bully and due to me being scottish and small in stature i usually go head on into confrontation regardless of not being able to defend myself physacly but that is me but hospital bullies i hate when i was in for my operation some 10 weeks agao i had a male nurse in the end i confronted him over his bullying and scaring the old folk i reported him and they brushed it under the carpet this has made me even angrier so i am back in hospital thursday and intend seeing seniour management because i want to see this person demoted to a menial job away from the wards ...he deserves to be sacked but that is another story....but poppy confrontation is has to come and you need to prepare yourself and stand up for yourself otherwise it will continue and if the job is what you love doing see your manager of department and explain what is happening...gggrrrr if i was their i would say something

patrickq1

i know this dose not help but i had to have my say

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Just posting to offer my support. I have been where your are and it was horrible.

 

I was naive enough to expect my concerns would be handled in at least a neutral fashion but instead found myself witness to an astounding cover up where my 'bully' (well known as such I later learned) told whatever lies she needed to to cover up the original issue and her line manager chose to believe her ( I genuinely think it was a choice not a decision based on the facts) I now view the internal grievance procedure as a covering up facility which has to be gone through before you bring in a solicitor.

 

((((HUGS)))

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Ok, you should raise a formal grievance in writing

 

Sounds like they will throw it out, but you should get a formal response in a resonabe amount of time.

 

Most companies have the right of appeal - use it.

 

Exhaust the grivance process as far as it goes for your employer.

 

Once you have done that, and you are satisfied you have substantial evidence - get signed statements from other coleagues - you can then go to IT as long as you have been employed for more than a year. Your solicitor would probably advise about a case for constructive dismissal.

 

Keep a diary of everything relevant, you wants dates, times and specifics of the bullying taking place.

 

If you don't want the face to face meetings, write a letter asking your employer to investigate.

 

I wouls suggest however that you do the meetings, with your own witness taking notes.

 

Your employer is not stupid, when they see you taking these formal steps, they will know you mean business, I'm sure they will nip it into the bud.

 

DO NOT BE SHY - make sure you 'bump into' the most Senior guys in the Hospital - their reputation is on the line if this gets out of hand.

 

DO NOT BE SNEAKY - don't tell al the colleagues, or it looks like your on a hate campaign - keep this open with people you can trust and managers - no one wants and employee who stirs things up - RISE ABOVE IT AND BE 10 TIMES MORE PROFESSIONAL

 

Signed, an experienced manager

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I put my concerns in writing to manager but no response for a month, so I went to see a more senior manager (which quoted the bullying and greivance policies) and gave her a copy of my letter and my diary of events. She asked me to give her some time and then came back to me and said I had to have this informal meeting. The bully and my manager are aware that we need to do this now. My manager was surprised when I said I would be taking a colleague with me.

Poppynurse :)

 

If my comments have been helpful please click my scales!!!!

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I think it may be worth asking the manager to confirm in writing that this meeting forms part of the grievance procedure, because it sounds to me as if they are trying to bypass it. On paper it will look as if you agreed to some sort of 'informal resolution meeting', neatly avoiding (for them) the need to actually investigate (or confirm what they already know about the bully).

 

Grievance policies are supposed to have strict timelines and procedures.

 

If you end up having to go to the meeting, here are some tips - with apologies in advance if I'm teaching you to suck eggs:

 

- get a copy of the grievance procedure and highlight anything relevant, such as the time within which management should acknowledge a grievance, and the bullying policy. It may be useful to refer to. It may also be useful to ask the manager, at the beginning, to 'just go over the Trust bullying policy', so there can be no doubt.

 

- take a voice recorder; no-one minds being recorded if they've nothing to hide. If the manager objects, say you'll make a copy available to them afterwards. If they forbid it, insist that the fact is minuted.

 

- get your accompanying colleague to take notes; don't rely on the employer's version afterwards.

 

- rearrange the seating if you feel intimidated; chairs are often set up so that one person is disadvantaged. Changing the position of your chair can help you to take control of the meeting.

 

- make sure you emphasise that the other person's behaviour made you feel that you were being bullied - there's no definition of bullying, it is the victim's perception that matters, nothing else.

 

- if the bully turns on the tears, or talks about their own problems, don't be tempted to sympathise - she should have use the Trust support structure or otherwise dealt with her issues - there's no excuse for bullying.

 

- be clear about what you want the outcome to be. If the conclusion isn't what you wanted, don't be afraid to say so.

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your rights: harassment and bullying at work - from workSMART.org.uk

HARRASSMENT BY BULLYING

ON THIS PAGE

PATRICKQ1

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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I've spoken to the union rep and been advised to attend the meeting (and tak a colleague), they are going to speak to HR in the meantime. Apparently what comes out of this meeting will determine if a disciplinary investigation is necessary.

Poppynurse :)

 

If my comments have been helpful please click my scales!!!!

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest Old_andrew2018
your rights: harassment and bullying at work - from workSMART.org.uk

HARRASSMENT BY BULLYING

ON THIS PAGE

PATRICKQ1

 

Hi

I’ve looked at your earlier comment about the male nurse, if he is actually a nurse (REGITSTERED NURSE), rather than a Care Assistant, then report him to the Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) www.nmc-uk.org.

For more information look at their Fitness to Practise: department 020 7462 5801/5811 or e-mail them [email protected]

If you get no joy from the senior manager, find out if they themselves are a nurse, if so report him or her to the NMC, we all have to protect our vulnerable citizens

The NMC will challenge managers who allow abuse, and will take appropriate action, I don’t feel sorry when such people lose their jobs, they are abusers or have allowed abuse.

Sorry to ramble BUT these people could be abusing any of our relatives,

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yes andrew he is a male nurse registered i presume otherwise he would nt be allowed to give out the drugs on his own (this is what frightens me)trouble is i have reported him but it seems he also has some sort of control over the normal nurses its like they are scared of him,my reporting him made no difference as nothing as far as i am aware happened,as i said it looks like it was brushed under the carpet,i saw the matron last week so i waited to catch her eye and she did not aknowledge me so i geussed then thay have brushed it aside,i pity the old folk with this inhumane animmal that is about all i could call him but one day someone will really suffer ultimate horror with this person

patrickq1

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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I had a similar issue in a engineering field. First meeting was with HR, His manager and him the bully (my manager). It got a little ugly, he denying many things.

The long and the short of any bullying action is if you have either recording or statements from others in support of you, then you are on good grounds. In this world, the manager who bullies someone can get away with it unless there is 3rd party evidence.

 

krishan

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thanks andrew written full e mail to above fittness cheers

patrickq1

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Guest Old_andrew2018
thanks andrew written full e mail to above fittness cheers

patrickq1

 

Its always the system which allows individuals to abuse and fails to protect our vulnerable people, its nice to see that someone such as yourself cares enough to do something about it.

I have just realised I hijacked Poppynurses thread I do apologise

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i do care but wheni wrote to other So CALED CARING DEPARTMENTS i felt very disheartened with this complaint so i almost let it drop till you gave me another e mail address thank you,i just cannot stand people who bully old folk,who are so vulnerable and need caring for whenever the need arrises,i do go out of my way sometimes but that is my nature

patrickq1

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Eh? This thread is about a staff member being bullied?

 

Still not got a firm date/time for the meeting two months down the line....union rep aware.

Poppynurse :)

 

If my comments have been helpful please click my scales!!!!

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your rights: harassment and bullying at work - from workSMART.org.uk

hijacked Poppynurses thread I do apologise

andrew was just putting in a reply to my comments,

but thanks for reminding us PN

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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