Clairus99 vs NatWest - hotting up? - **WON**

[clairus99]

I do have a running thread elsewhere on this board, however, it doesn't seem to get looked at (not whingeing, just being practical!) ...

 

The 14 days is well overdue as, duh, I didn't have the £120 for Moneyclaim (yeah, I know, helps to have this first!). Anyway.

 

I've had a couple of charges since, so I figure my options are this:-

 

1. Continue with claim as before, even though 14 days since LBA letter has now turned into 28 days or so;

 

or,

 

2. Start all over again, adding the 3 or 4 charges they've added since.

 

 

What do you think?!

[Neo]

Hi,

 

Sometimes threads may get missed depending on how busy it is, but the best thing to do if it hasn't been looked at is to reply to the same thread, this will bring it back up on the list. Starting a new thread can cause confusion. Do make sure you give at least a few days though.

 

Ok, if you have had charges and you haven't yet filed a claim in court then proceed with your schedule, but add into your next correspondence. in your case am I right your next step is to file a claim?

 

An admin will move it for you, please ...

[Spiceskull]

You have two options:

 

Continue with your original claim and timetable, leaving everything unchanged (much less confusing) and treating the new charges as another issue.

 

Merging the two, but the downside to this is by the time it gets to court there will probably be an additional set of charges to consider...

 

My own choice would be to treat them separately, and then you are in the position of pre-empting pending charges by using the OFT announcement (see my own thread for more details of this) http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2121

 

Whichever you choose, good luck.

[clairus99]

Yes, you are right.

 

So am I allowed to add interim charges then? I would have thought that I could only do it for the amount I asked for intially...?

[Neo]

I have just seen Spiceskulls post. I should of really mentioned both options... but you have stated in your letters that you are claiming back all your charges since... so and so date.

 

Spiceskull, if It did get to court, would the judge not look in your favour for putting them in one claim and not bringing two to court, if it ever got that far?

[clairus99]

 

... treat them separately...

 

Whichever you choose, good luck.

 

Thanks - and thanks.

 

I thought we were advised to only take them to court once (or did I misunderstand and it's really that they're likely to close your account the first time?!).

 

I'll read your thread in a sec, thanks....

 

It's amazing. All these years I thought I was the only one NatWest treated like cack.....

[Spiceskull]

You can claim for ALL penalty charges - keeping the claims separate will avoid confusion and complications later down the line...

[clairus99]

That's it then, I'll treat them separately.

 

Sorry Spiceskull, I'm not usually such a dolt, and usually I'm far more lazy, but could you pinpoint in your thread what you're referring to (please)?

 

 

Thanks to both of you for your advice btw!

[Spiceskull]

Something along these line:

[WHENEVER] I received a statement from [bANK], stating their intent to unlawfully apply penalty charges to my account on [DATE]. These charges are to the sum of £XX.

 

As you are aware, I have asked you to demonstrate to me that these punitive charges are fair and just, that they are lawful, and that they are being lawfully applied. You have failed to demonstrate this to date, and therefore it is implied by your refusal or inability to supply such demonstration, that these penalties are, indeed, unlawful.

 

Therefore, I would draw your attention to the following point: you have stated that these charges will be applied on [DATE]. If these charges ARE applied, then you will be required to explain why you have, in my view, committed a pre-meditated breach of the law, and I will be reporting such breach to all of the relevant authorities.

 

However, as this has not yet happened, I require that you take action forthwith, and cancel this transaction prior to its execution. Furthermore, I require confirmation, in writing, that this transaction will, indeed, be cancelled.

 

I shall be checking my account on [DATE], and if I see that the penalty charges have been unlawfully applied to my account, I shall lodge a claim at the county court to recover these charges, plus my costs and interest calculated at 8% APR, without hesitation. Furthermore, I shall require that you confirm whether these unlawful charges have resulted in a default notice against my record with credit reference agencies, and if so, I will seek appropriate action to have this notice removed.

You can also make reference to the OFT statement of 5th April if you feel it is relevant (which it is) but I like to keep the bank guessing, and use this in follow up letters...

[rbrears]

Put them all in the original claim.

 

Your correspondence with the bank has asked for all charges to be refunded. Your claim is therefore for all charges up to the date of the claim. It doesn't matter if the figure has increased before you issue and after you have written your LBA or if the LBA quotes a different figure.

 

Your Particulars of Claim on the Claim Form will clearly state that you are claiming all charges to the date of the claim and as such there will be no confusion. The court would prefer that you put them all in the same claim.

 

Hope this helps

[clairus99]

Yes it does, thanks.

 

Right. I've deposited the cheque received from First Direct into my NatWest account and I'm now ready to go ahead with Moneyclaim. Way overdue.

 

Does this really matter?

[clairus99]

Never mind. Tis done. Now I nervously await the next step. Kinda scary.

 

I've just started my next claim too - 4 charges in two months - tut tut tut.

[clairus99]

Just keeping up to date.....

 

Received today (10 May 2006) the Notice of Issue from Northampton CC.

 

It's really wierd not to be on the receiving end of one of these for a change!

 

Anyway...

 

Claim issued on 08 May 2006

Sent to defendant by first class post on 08 May 2006 and it will be deemed to be served on 13 May 2006.

Defendant has until 27 May 2006 to reply.

 

Gulp. I'm playing with the big boys now. How exciting/scary/exciting/scary/etc!!!

 

Their options:

 

Pay your total claim

File an acknowledgement of service (an extra 28 days for them, I think they'll do this)

Dispute (and send me their defence)

Admit money is owed (and have judgement entered)

Admit part of money is owed (then I decide what to do next)

Not reply (court can enter judgement if I want)

 

I'm sure many of those here will already be familiar of this but I couldn't find anything this far ahead when I started all this, so thought I'd record it for the benefit of others as well (that's not to say there wasn't, I mean, we don't all read every single thing, do we?!)

 

If anyone would like to reassure me right now, please (please) feel free to do so now!

[deeian]

Good for you. Just keep going, these guys think we're all going to back down. I'm still waiting for DPA then i'll be right there with you.

[clairus99]

Okay, well, Acknowledgement of Service received today, which makes me gulp!

 

Trying not to be scared as I'm only following in the footsteps of others, rather than leading them!

 

Oy vey, they make you work for it, don't they?

 

Incidentally, if I end up going to court, this means a trek up to Northampton doesn't it?

 

Blimey, the CCJs I have with them....

 

Okay.

 

Did the Moneyclaim thing.

 

Got the notification about NatWest wanting to extend by 28 days.

 

That day is up today.

 

What happens next?

 

(Yes, I will go to FAQ now!!)

[rbrears]

If it is defended it will be transferred to your local county court.

[Omega 3]

I'm at a similar stage to you, RBS have acknowledg dmy claim which gives them a further 28 days to get their defence together. I think alot of us are at the sam eo rvery similar stages.

 

Good luck to you!

[clairus99]

Thanks!

 

Good luck all of us eh?

 

Let's have the banks crapping themselves - yay!

 

Natwest had 28 days from the date that the papers were deemed to have been served. Have a look on the original notification from the Northampton County Court and you will see a date at which the Court deems the papers as served. If Natwest acknowledged then they bought themeselves the full 28 days from this date. Are you sure the 28th day is up today?

 

In that case, following the close of business today you can go online at the moneyclaim site and request judgement by default from the court - on the basis that "the defendant has failed to submit a defence or contest the claim".

 

By the way did you PM a mod with your claim details - case number, and amount involved?

 

Yes I did.

 

The Acknowlegdement was dated 12 May. So unless that's working days (which I don't imagine it is), that means today.

 

Moneyclaim sent me a letter saying I can't do it online because NatWest "changed their address" - so I think that's a trip to my local County Court (wherever the hell that is...)?

[clairus99]

I've done the preliminary, the LBA and the Moneyclaim thing.

 

I received their Defence and Request for Information a few weeks back and wrote back to the solicitors this week (as advised) to tell them that I object to their attempt to mislead me and that the CPR paragraph 18 (sorry if that's not accurate, I don't have the details to hand, but I'm not far off.... paragraph/section...?). I also said that I am prepared to go to court and answer any questions there. I did, however, send the details of my account number and sort code, and the list of charges.

 

In a separate letter that came a week ago offered me £600 of the £1200ish that I'm claiming, and I duly wrote back in another letter (sent the same day) saying, no thanks.

 

I put this here today because I'm starting to think that this situation is going off the same route others are following and am wondering what other people think and if they have received similar stuff. I don't worry about going to court really because I don't suppose I really have anything to lose, and should that be the case then I will prepare myself as much as I possibly can - I understand and support, of course, the principle of this movement!

 

I should add that I did put the wrong account number originally (not sure how I did that!) and made a couple of errors in dates, which was clumsy but I double checked everything in the last correspondence and it's all correct (I had to swallow one charge because it would have upset the balance I'm asking for and I didn't want to mess it up on that, if I haven't already!).

 

Right. Hoping that's all clear and you're still reading (!), here's the reply I received this morning....

 

"We refer to your letter..... thank you for the schedule of charges.

 

We note your comments on our Request for Further Information. Please note that Part 27.2 (1)(f) Civil procedure Rules applies SUBJECT TO paragraph 3 of Part 27.2, which states that the Court of its own initiatve may order a party to provide frutehr infomration if it considers it appropriate to do so.

 

It is our client's contention that your Particulars of Claim do not properly particularise your claim. For example, our client cannot properly defend a claim where you have not given your account details and the details of each charge you claim is disproportionate and unreasonable.

 

The Court is bound by an overriding objective to deal with cases justly and ensure that parties are on an equal footing. It is clearly the case that our client cannot respond to a claim where you have not provided sufficient particulars. Our client therefore objects to your contention that the request was intended to initmitate or misinform you."

 

Not sure about that first paragraph yet, but from what I understand, they are trying to press me into specifying why I deem each and every charge, separately and individually, "disproportionate and unreasonable". Does that sound right?

 

I suppose what I am concerned about is that I may lose this because the initial information I supplied had some errors (dumklutz...!).

 

I also wanted to put this letter on here, not just for the thoughts of those in the know, but hopefully, to help others if necessary.

 

I'm going to take a poke around the forums now!

[clairus99]

Good God - it's hard to decide whether they're good at playing delay tactics or if they really are that shoddy...!

 

Sorry to sound dumb - I don't really know what you mean by, "particulars of claim" - unless you mean how much, etc. But I don't mind sharing it all, of course (I've not been on the site for a little while, so excuse me whilst I grease my wheels!)

 

My case number is 6QZ29094 and I'm claiming £1152.00 (including interest but before court costs), issued on 06/05/06 and the Acknowledgement of Service is dated 12/05/06.

 

After this I got the seemingly standard Notice of Acting, Defence and Request for Further Information. They say they serve it, "pursuant to CPR Part 18", have set this out in the Defence (saying I haven't disclosed reasonable grounds). Then they intend to apply to the Court for an order for me to provide the information (well, fine...).

 

They wanted the account details (supplied) with the dates and amounts of each (done) and the reason given (presumably by them, eg. Unpaid DD = done).

 

They wanted clarification that I should not have been charged and why I think this in each case - also how much I think should have been charged.

 

Re the "disproportionate penalty..." they seem to want the same, plus why I think it wasn't a breach of contract by myself (well, they said, "The Claimant"). They want this for each charge I'm claiming for.

 

Finally, they refer to the, "invalied under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.7.....etc)" and "...Supply of Goods and Services Act...", saying that I need to specify these facts in each case, along with the, "contractual provisions", l allege are, "unenforceable by reference to UCTA/the Regulations".

 

The Defence is a bit longer and very much in legal-ese but seems to point out the same kind of things.

 

(Sorry I took so long to post this up - had a bit of an emergency in the middle of it!)

[clairus99]

Uh-oh.

 

I just noticed that I have to fill in an Allocation Questionnaire - with the last date for filing tomorrow! Saturday! I hope they're open!

[barracad]

"Particulars of Claim" is what you put on your claim form in the "Particulars of Claim" section - basically what you are claiming and why.

 

The Courts are not open on Saturdays - but if the due date for the AQ is tomorrow you should be ok handing it in on Monday morning.

[Bookworm]

THREADS MERGED. *AGAIN*

[clairus99]

The reason the "threads" are "merged again" is because the last one I had was "CLOSED BY MODERATORS". [**EDITED - NO NEED TO GET PERSONAL, PLEASE RESPECT FORUM RULES**]

Thank you everyone else though, much appreciated.

 

"Help this site help others - if you find this site helpful, or when you get a refund, please make a minimum 5% donation by clicking the button."

[Omega 3]

Hi,

 

I think I'm just ahead of you. Cobbetts have offered me £800 against a claim of £1200, and they want confidentiality. I've said no to both their offer and the confidentiality thing. yesterday they sent me a copy of the court allocation questionnaire which had to be with the court by 1st July, so I'm waiting to see what happend next!