CSA deducted earnings not paid

[isthislegal]

I have just had an order from the CSA for money they say is owed.

According to their records I havn't paid anything. The money was

deducted from my earnings when I was working for a company that has

gone out of business, this was in the mid 1990s. I still have pay slips showing CSA deductions but the CSA say that I am still liable for all that is owed. Is this correct?

[1stlifeline]

If you have proof of payment then it should be enough for them. The thing is that they may say that even though you were paying it was not the correct amount. This happened to my partner. He didnt pay through the CSA but had kept all his bank slips showing payments to her account. It was a long tedious process as they never seem to know which dept is dealing with you but the upshot of it was that he disputed he owed the money and sent them all the reciepts. They finally came to the conclusion that he had underpaid £140 at some stage of the previous 7 years. He had to pay it again directly to the csa. Strangly enough his ex didnt get a pennt of that £140, nor did she dispute that she had always been paid.

 

Do you normally make payments through the CSA? Why have they only just got in touch about arrears from over 10 years ago?

In our case it was because his ex had started to claim a benefit and so the csa had to be involved even though neither of them wanted to involve them. They had an agreement which worked perfectly for years for both of them. The only good thing was that they told him he was paying too much a month from his current wage.

getting it sorted was a nightmare. Hope it goes well for you.

[isthislegal]

Thanks for your response

The CSA are sure I havn't paid a penny. I sent them copies of some of my pay slips but its made no difference. Its strange they have got in touch with me after all these years, the only conclusion I can come to is that their records are upside down. I suggested this and of course they said they were perfect, its like talking to a brick wall. I have been to the citizens advice and they said there is nothing I can do except maybe take them to court, but there has been no other case of this action brought against them.

[Guest Gertie100]

I would have thought that you would need to wait for them to take you to court and defend...rather than instigate the case.

 

I can't see it getting very far as long as you are 100% that the payments have been taken - by the way are the deductions noted on your payslips as being taken from the CSA? (Sorry if thats a stupid question but I haven't actually seen one first hand...)

[isthislegal]

Hi Gertie

 

It says on the payslips the deductions from the CSA. I thought that maybe my employer had kept the money but in the history of the payments you can see that they deducted a large payment over a period of months at the start to cover the past nonpayment, then they decided that they had taken to much so the weekly amounts went down. After a couple of months the payments became larger and stablized. There seems to be a close involvement with CSA.

But why!! after all these years come back to me and say I havn't paid at all.

[make them aktiv runners]

Thanks for your response

The CSA are sure I havn't paid a penny. I sent them copies of some of my pay slips but its made no difference. Its strange they have got in touch with me after all these years, the only conclusion I can come to is that their records are upside down. I suggested this and of course they said they were perfect, its like talking to a brick wall. I have been to the citizens advice and they said there is nothing I can do except maybe take them to court, but there has been no other case of this action brought against them.

 

Have they actually admitted reading and discarding the proof? Only deal with them under their official complaints procedure, once that is exhausted you can take it up with higher levels outside the CSA itself.

[isthislegal]

Thanks for you advice aktiv

 

This has all been said over the phone so I have just sent them a letter with all the info that I have (contribution dates and company address) plus more copies of my payslips and asked them to send me a letter stating if they reject or confirm the info I have given and to inform me by letter.

[isthislegal]

I have just had a written reply back from the CSA. I sent them some copies of my payslips which show CSA deductions.

 

They agree that my payslips say there are CSA deductions but after looking through their payment screens they confirm that they have not recieved any of the amounts specified.

 

They also advise me that when a Deduction from Earnings is in place it is my responsibility to ensure that payments have been recieved to the agency therefore the payment amount specified remains payable.

 

My son is 24 years old now.

[spotnot]

I had this problem with my ex. He has maintenance taken from his wages but his employer wouldn't pass it on to the CSA. Eventually the CSA took the employer to court and they were issued with a £2,000 fine for every time they didn't send the money in.

 

I get it on time now! (However, it did take 12 and a half years to sort it out!)

[isthislegal]

Thats a big fine!!!

I can't decide if the CSA has lost my records on their system or if my old boss has done a runner. The last anyone heard of him was that he moved to Holland in 2001. He does seem to have dissapeared off the face of the earth. I have contacted 9 old work collegues and nobody has a contact number.

[Conniff]

Without knowing the exact workings of the CSA (which they obviously don't either), the payments were taken from your pay because the CSA instructed the 'employer' to do so and their beef is with him not you.

 

They are being their usual self, totally incompetant.

 

You now need to be snotty with them and tell them you have proof of payment and the responsibility is with them to recover it from the employer if it was not received and not you.

 

Remember, 'they' instructed your employer, not you.

You could also mention that if they continue to harass you, then you will apply for an injunction against them. Go on the attack and don't grovel to them.

[isthislegal]

Thanks for the advice.

 

I have written a letter to the local MP explaining the situation. But I don't hold much hope for this, the last time I got in touch with an MP about the CSA the reply was a cold shoulder and advised to swallow the bitter pill. I will keep you posted if I get a reply.

[Conniff]

If this MP gives you the cold shoulder, name him and shame him on here.

[Bearmaggie]

Unfortunately, under CSA law, it is your responsiblity to pay. The deduction from your wages would have been put on as you were not paying, even though they would have given you ample opportunity to do so.

 

It is up to the customer to ensure that the payments are being made to the CSA, even though your employer is/was deducting them from your wages. The CSA say that you are liable for all payments, the fact that your employer deducted the money and then failed to forward them on is irrelevant to the CSA.

 

Advice in the past has been to take your employer to the small claims court, or report them to the police for theft, cause that's exactly what they have done - taken YOUR money. Unfortunately, in your case, you do not know were your employer is. From your original post, it would seem that your employer was in financial difficulties (company closed), so was probably keeping hold of your money in the hope of keeping the company afloat.

[isthislegal]

I sent an email to Julian Brazier MP, he has offered to look at my case.

[Tigstheterror]

Bearmaggie sorry dissagree, I am the partner of the organisor of deadbeatdadsassociation.co.uk fighting against the CSA and we are in the clasps of the CSA The CSA are abusing the payment system of deduction of earnings order (DEO) because they are trying to reach targets and up their bonuses.

It has now come to light that fathers who have been paying child support maintenance and paying the correct amount from day one through either direct debit standing order or cheque, the CSA are now not in favour of doing this so in order to get fathers to pay by DEO they are now issuing fathers with imaginary arrears which the CSA cannot back up nor explain where they have come from and when you ring up the CSA to query the matter they just say pay the arrears if you do not pay then we will put you down as being non compliant and then issue the DEO onto your wages. This in turns means you are paying arrears that don,t exist plus another stunt the CSA are pulling is that they are informing fathers that arrears have to be paid back in two years and trying to enforce this through the DEO and sometimes if your self employed through a liability order through court. This in fact is just a CSA guideline and NOT law my partner has acted as a mackenzie friend for a couple of people in court when the CSA have tried to issue a LO but when he asked the CSA to provide proof it was law to pay back arrears in two years they could not do it because it was not law, the case was kicked out and the CSA got their backsides kicked.

As for the details being on your wage slip that the CSA has been paid, well that is proof in itself and it is NOT up to the father to ensure the company pay his child maintenance it is up to the company and the CSA to sort out. I would suspect that the CSA have received your money because if they did not get the money from your employer then the CSA by law have to take your company NOT the father but the company to court because if the CSA do not receive any money from the company once the DEO has been served then the CSA have to take the company to court and the company would have been fined £1000 for every month the company failed to pay the CSA. Its the CSAs way of making more money illegally. your company will have paid them do NOT beleive a word the CSA say to you. If you require any more info check out his web site Home or you can email me at [email protected]. Also if the CSA persist on chasing you for the money or stick a DEO on any more of your wages then you must take them to court for fraud, you have the evidence it has been paid, there is no reason why you should have to pay it twice

T

Edited May 19, 2008 by Tigstheterror
spelling terrible

[isthislegal]

Thanks Tigstheterror

I suspected things were not quite right, the whole issue just made me very angry. The fact that they said they had no record of any conributions and secondly they got in touch with me about this matter 12 years later. They tried to dissmiss the fact that I still had payslips with deductions and it was only by getting in touch with my local MP that they considered my payments. I try to think how the situation would be if I didn't have my wage slips and it scares the hell out of me. The money they asked for was way below the amount I actually paid so I owe nothing and they have closed my account down. But be sure I have asked for it writing so if they contact me again I can show them the letter.

[Tigstheterror]

they will not reply they very rarely do because it is a fraudulent act that they are trying to do and they are preying on the ignorance of the client or the service users. Would you mind passing your case over to my fiances web site Home so that I can do a case file against these draconian idiots who act fraudulently

Many thanks

[isthislegal]

I'm sorry but they persisted very hard to get me to pay, they sent nasty threatning letters, even when I had a representative from citizens advice confronting them with my case it made no difference. Citizens Advice could only advice me to take it to court or declair myself bankrupt as a last resort. It was only when I contacted the Ombudsman that they advised me to complain to my local MP.

I will put my case on your site.

[Conniff]

Nice one Tigs the Terror. Just what this site needs.

 

I am a grandad now, married to the same lovely woman and was never put on the spot that people are today, but will be over to your site to offer support if it's required, this is an emotive subject with me.

 

Good luck with your new found friend isthislegal.

[Tigstheterror]

Glad to have anyone on board who wishes to have any sort of input,, these people,or as i like to call them "" robots for the government" are horrible,immoral, and terrible. The stories we have heard since my finace' has become involved with this agency are absolutely horrific especially the deaths at the hands of this agency.

A lot of people are not fully aware of laws that CAN in most cases, offer some recompence and protection, this was another reason the site was set up. My fiance' has researched the laws, regulations etc and always checks out up dates and new guidelines which they invariably think up as they go along. We are currently trying to get a sound backing for the association from our MP and will keep updates of progress on the site.

I really feel for anyone who has to deal with this side of the government,beleive it or not politics etc never interested me in the slightest but of late i have been looking at the net for articles and MP's blogs etc!!!!!

If we can help anyone ease their worries and predicaments and offer at least, a portion of support then it is better than having yet another suicide to the growing list of those already at their wits end enough to end their lives with this cruel agency. Feel free to pass on the web details to anyone you know who may need advice,support or even someone in their same predicament to moan at!!!

We have to try and make a change,no matter how small in this world, and it costs nothing to offer help and advice.

Thanx for your coments and keep up the good work in fighting for the little people cheers for the support guys

Hugs Tigs x

[lee6370]

Unfortunately, under CSA law, it is your responsiblity to pay. The deduction from your wages would have been put on as you were not paying, even though they would have given you ample opportunity to do so.

 

It is up to the customer to ensure that the payments are being made to the CSA, even though your employer is/was deducting them from your wages. The CSA say that you are liable for all payments, the fact that your employer deducted the money and then failed to forward them on is irrelevant to the CSA.

 

Advice in the past has been to take your employer to the small claims court, or report them to the police for theft, cause that's exactly what they have done - taken YOUR money. Unfortunately, in your case, you do not know were your employer is. From your original post, it would seem that your employer was in financial difficulties (company closed), so was probably keeping hold of your money in the hope of keeping the company afloat.

 

Sorry but this can't br right. My employer like everyone else's deducts tax and NI, if they fail to pass them on is it my fault?

 

Should i be phoning my tax office to ensure that my employer has paid my tax?

 

The CSA has entered into an agreement with the employer, they need to take it up with the employer.

[jannercobbler]

Have you done a S.A.R. (Subject access request) to them? they have 40 days to produce the information when asked.

 

Have you put your complaint in writing to them?

 

If you have done and you are still not happy then I usually refer my case to I.C.E. (independent case examiner) their website is The Independent Case Examiner Website - Home Page they will then sort out things for you and can order the CSA to pay compensation.

 

Hope this helps.

[bobbyh99]

Isthislegal - Just a thought, but has your ex-partner been receiving money from the CSA, if she has and your payslips match up to what he/she has been receiving then surely thats enough proof!