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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
    • I would say You should accept it - I HIGHLY doubt you will  be able to claim for letters at trial ans they’re offering you that, which is higher monetary value than interest.   Also they raise a good point, getting interest at anything above 4% is lucky these days, yes judges give it, but rarily above 4%   Also you might find depending on the judge  you don’t get some costs if you take it all the way over £7.40 when court woukdnt award letters costs and thus meaning their award would be less than evris offer which was made    Up to you though but the wait will be 3-4mo for a trial date at least
    • Hi Folks, Been 162 days! Just by way of update. Today I received a text from Opos Ltd so no doubt Capquest are renting the debt out to anybody who fancies a nibble. Safe to say I will not be responding.
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Claiming charges back from day one - Help!


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Hi everyone.

 

Added up charges. Comes to nearly 3K.

They have not included overdraft interest or fees for stopping a cheque?

Say the fees were advised when the service was provided.

 

I think this is wrong - can someone confirm so I can write back asking for a list of these.

 

Ta:o

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that's what i'm asking you - if you don't mind telling - how did you get them to send you a list of charges - i don't know anyone else who got anything other than a massive stack of statements - even though the letter does ask for a list - i'm wondering if they've changed tactics..

 

so, what gives - did they actually send you a list instead of all the previous 6 years worth of statements?

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They sent a list of unpaid s/o & dd charges for last 6 years.

Covering sheet saying they did not class debit interest, stopped cheques etc as charges.

 

Basically they were deciding on what to send me, so i rang them for amended letter inc debit interest and stopped cheques.

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Hi,

 

Sent schedule of charges to HSBC asking for me money back, nearly £3K.

They have told me to resubmit schedule as "total charges" is insufficient, as this covers various charging components that need to be split and itemised?!

 

It is down on my statements as "total charges"!

 

Surely its their job to supply correct information when i submitted SAR?

 

They also have said i cannot claim for debit interest as this was detailed when the formal overdraft limit was agreed, and is a condition of the borrowing.

 

Anyone help?

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To claim the interest back you need to proportion it off to the charges that they have charged you. Unfortunately you cannot reclaim all of the interest. As for the stopped cheques, again if you requested them to stop a cheque from your account, you cannot reclaim the charge they charged you for this. The only charges you can claim are for going over your o/d limit (Total charges), and bouncing DD's, cheques and S/O's.

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has anyone else had this? sending off for the statements and getting a list of charges? this is unacceptable - if you ask for your statements - you should get your statements.

 

you could also access your statements for the last six years on-line.

INTERNET BANKING WEBSITE: -

HSBC INTERNET BANKING

 

HOW TO OBTAIN YOUR STATEMENTS ON LINE: -

Click on “My Accounts” choose the account that you wish to deal with and then click on “My Statements” this will give you online access to up to 6 years of statements. (Repeat for each account and use a separate spreadsheet for each account).

 

Hint: - Watch out for the moving "Prev" button it is replaced by "Next" which takes you back to where you started

 

 

when you put the cursor over a particular charge - it will tell you what the charge is for -

you should print out the pages that have charges on them.

 

then you can start by circling all the charges. you can also include the interest debits (these are interest on your overdraft which you have been charged) but if you want to include the interest debits - you need to use the advanced spreadsheet - it will calculate how much of each charge is due to your charges - so if you are in postitive balance at the time of the interest debit - the advanced s/s will pick up none of the interest - if you are in negative balance at the time of the interest debit - the advanced s/s will pick up some or all of the debit -

on the advanced spreadsheet - the charges go on the left and the interest charges go on the right and depending on the balance - some, none or all of the interest will be picked up. at the end you will have two totals - add them together and that will be how much you are reclaiming in charges and overdraft interest. if the overdraft interest doesn't amount to very much - you are best leaving it off as hsbc are very picky about paying it out - they really balk at it and it must be done spot on to get them to pay it. so be sure you use the advanced s/s and don#t just plonk the interest debits onto the spreadsheet as that would be incorrect.

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best not to ask questions on separate threads as we get totally mixed up - i've tried to answer your issues on your other thread. but poker mad is asking as total charges mean something different on a business claim than they do on a personal current account - so - let's get you back to your other thread - but do tell us if this is a business account... if so - you need to look at the pre-notification you get each month prior to the statement to see exactly how the total charges is broken down - some of it is reclaimable and some of it is not. on a personal current account the term total charges is a reclaimable item.

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ok, let's get you back onto one thread - so - now we know it is a business account - you'll need that notification breakdown - i'm going to put a couple of links here to help you out with business claims -

A guide to Business Claims

 

Sample letter to your bank - business version

 

Claiming on a Business account? Lets join forces? (multipage.gif1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

 

and here is what celicaman wrote last week to someone i asked him to look at their thread in exactly the same circumstances (celicaman is who i go to with business questions):

 

 

Hi KB, Lattie asked me to pop in.

This is for the business claim.

What you really need is the summary sheet that the bank sends just before the statements each month.

The charges on this sheet appear as 'Total charges' on the statements.Your brother should have these with his statements as with business accounts he must keep all the records for at least 6 years.

On there it lists what various charges are for and debit interest charged etc.

You cant claim for commission charges, ie a charge for items paid in & out of the account, they are usually around 60p per cheque, Credit paid in, SO & DD payments, there may also be a monthly Fee of £2.50 or £3.00. Also you cant claim for stopped cheque items as this is where you have stopped a cheque.

You can claim for overdraft fees, excess overdraft fees and any daily excess fees they charge (usually £4 or £8 per day)

 

On the main statements it will show charges for 'recall charge' 'SO & DD recall' You Can claim these back.

'arrangement fee' this one is for when they allow you to go over your overdraft limit, and usually get a letter saying ' we have agreed to your request for an overdraft' ( you didnt ask for anything, but they use it to get £25 out of you). They try to disguise this as an informal request for an overdraft !

You can claim these back and are usually £25 per time they 'agreed' to your request.

 

There is however a Legit 'Arrangement fee' this is when you have actually asked for a new or higher limit, & these can be a one off charge of £50- £200 upwards, depending on the limit you require and you Cant claim this back.

 

'Unpaid item' This is where somebody has given you a cheque & it has bounced, you get charged £4 for this and to confirm this , your statement should show the item being taken back out the account & represented again. You cant claim this back.

 

The bank know what charges you can claim back, but you have to prove to them which ones as they arent going to help you.

What you need to ask bank for is a full breakdown of all charges applied to the account or copies of the Summary sheets (not statements) then you can work out what to claim back. You will also then be able to work out how much interest on the charges to claim back. (you need statements & summary to worl this out). HSBC will say they dont pay this but they will if you include it in your claim and file at court.(this is not the same as Stat 8% interest applid at court)

May be worth your brother going to the bank and asking there, he may have to be persuasive there, maybe read up on the SARS stuff so he can explain that they must supply this information, other than that use the SARS template letters, but he may just get a second set of statements !

 

Anything else needs clarifying just Ask

 

Celicaman

__________________

 

 

hope that helps

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  • 1 month later...

You can only claim back a proportion of the debit interest that relates to the charge. eg you are over you limit by £100 but only £30 realtes to charges. You were charged interest on the whole £100 but can only claim back the part that relates to the £30 charge. (i hope that this makes sense).

 

Now you have your charges you will needd to input all the figures on to a spreadsheet. There are some in the bank template library. If you are going to go for the interest as well you will need to use the advance ones.

 

Also, I think, if you do go for the debit interest you will not be able to go for the statutory 8% at the court stage (but I may be wrong there)

 

Here si the link for the spreadsheets:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/182-6-interest-calculation-spreadsheets.html

 

Do not delete the info already there as this will delete the formulas. Just type your info over the top and when you are finished, delete the ones that do not relate to you.

 

If you need any help, just shout.

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You are absolutely right PD. It is when you claim contractual interest that you can't claim the 8% as well. I knew it was some form of interest. thanks for correcting me.:D

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