Virgin Active and ARC!!! Please Help

[Rose Rose]

Re: ARC Collection Agency

Hello There,

 

Please excuse me for posting my problem here but as I am new here I feel bit lost.

 

I will really appreciate if someone can help me with my problem. I was with Virgin Active gym on Platinum membership from past 2 Years. In February 2007 I had a fall and injured my left knee. Due to that I wanted to quit the gym and I rang them but I was told that I can’t terminate my membership at all even though if I am not using the gym I have to pay. I told them the reason but they didn't listen and insisted that I have to pay even if I don’t use the gym. I requested my bank to stop paying Virgin Active through direct debit. After numerous phone calls to Virgin Active I wrote them letters, but didn’t hear anything from them. They kept sending me letters for not receiving the money through direct debit I didn’t answer them. Finally on 10th of December 2007 I send them a letter through recorded delivery due to medical and personal reasons I am unable to join virgin active gym, I also attached the letter from my GP to prove that.

 

But still didn’t hear a thing from them. In Despair today on 21st of January, I rang them only to find out they haven't received any of my letters and they have passed my account to ARC Credit Management. When I asked the lady from Virgin active to tell me how much amount I owe them, she said she can’t tell me as ARC will have to add their charges as well and I have to speak to ARC Credit Management. I have ARC letters but I am too scared to open them they harass me on phone also. I am so affray to pick up the phone. I opened one of ARC Credit Management letter dated 06 Nov 2007 letter it says

 

Balance Current Arrears Due £149.85

Total Liability to end of contract £189.80

 

I don't get that at all and I am so scared to ring them and find out. The letter also says that they will pass my account to their solicitors, with instructions to issue proceedings in the county court.

 

I am very upset and don't know what to do. Please Please help me.

[sosumi]

Hi Rose Rose

Never never ring them. You do not have to speak to them.

They're head-monsters, which is why they want you to call.

 

The first thing you have to do is open those letters from Arc.

You will get all the help and support you need from here, and as time goes on you'll feel completely different to the way you feel now. If Virgin have assigned the debt to ARC, then that's who you'll be dealing with. But you are in control, not them. It'll be okay - okay? x

[spamheed]

Hi Rose

 

Welcome to CAG

You're amongst friends here

 

In February 2007 I had a fall and injured my left knee. Due to that I wanted to quit the gym and I rang them but I was told that I can’t terminate my membership at all even though if I am not using the gym I have to pay.

Complete Nonsense, do you have a copy of the membership agreement you signed when you first joined the gym? to see what the terms of cancellation are. Unless you sign a new agreement each year. I would expect them to be something like 1 months written notice, given that you have been a member for at least 2 years.

Did you sign a new agreement each year?

I told them the reason but they didn't listen and insisted that I have to pay even if I don’t use the gym.

You need to clarify this bit - Did you put anything in writing at all regarding the cancellation of the membership prior to cancelling the direct debit?

 

Do you have anything in writing confirming your injuries, and did you write to them before stopping the direct debit?

 

But still didn’t hear a thing from them. In Despair today on 21st of January, I rang them only to find out they haven't received any of my letters and they have passed my account to ARC Credit Management. When I asked the lady from Virgin active to tell me how much amount I owe them, she said she can’t tell me as ARC will have to add their charges as well and I have to speak to ARC Credit Management.

 

Again, this is Nonsense, ARC have no agreement with you and as such cannot apply their own charges, neither can they use the membership agreement to apply their own collection charges.

I have ARC letters but I am too scared to open them they harass me on phone also. I am so affray to pick up the phone. I opened one of ARC Credit Management letter dated 06 Nov 2007 letter it says

 

Balance Current Arrears Due £149.85

Total Liability to end of contract £189.80

 

I don't get that at all and I am so scared to ring them and find out. The letter also says that they will pass my account to their solicitors, with instructions to issue proceedings in the county court.

 

I am very upset and don't know what to do. Please Please help me.

 

It sounds very much as if Virgin have passed on your debt to ARC, has the membership period actually expired yet?

 

Firstly, there is no need to panic, companies like ARC use words to make you scared, words like court and bailiffs and CCJ. They want you to phone them, so that they can attempt to bully you into paying. So don't phone them, under any circumstances, insist that all communications are in writing.

They cant send the bailiffs around without taking you to court and winning

They cant take your property without taking you to court and winning

They do not want to take you to court for less than £200. They are trying to get you to pay them something, you are now amongst friends and we all hate bullies

 

Before going any further we will need to establish if the debt is actually valid, and if the membership agreement is enforceable, so if you could try to answer the questions above, the answers will dictate what needs to be done next.

[Rose Rose]

Hello There,

Sosumi and Spamheed thank you so much for your prompt reply, I truly appreciate it.

Complete Nonsense, do you have a copy of the membership agreement you signed when you first joined the gym? to see what the terms of cancellation are. Unless you sign a new agreement each year. I would expect them to be something like 1 months written notice, given that you have been a member for at least 2 years.

Spamheed, yes I do have a copy the membership agreement. The term and conditions for the cancellations are

Notice must be given on termination of membership in writing from you or by completion of the Virgin Active Change of circumstances form, and such notice must be received at your home club, no later than the seventeenth day of the month before the month of cancellation to be effective on the last day of the month.

Except for Diamond Membership where written notice of termination must be given by the seventeenth day of the twelfth month (last month of commitment period). If notice of termination is not received in writing by this time the membership will automatically renew for a further twelve months.

Here I also want to correct my self that I was on Diamond membership not on Platinum.

You need to clarify this bit - Did you put anything in writing at all regarding the cancellation of the membership prior to cancelling the direct debit?

I did send them letter in September 2007 thinking that’s it on my part and also requested my bank to stop any direct debit to Virgin active the same day. When I didn’t hear from them and received a letter from Virgin Active that my account is in arrears, in October 2007 again I send them letter stating that due to medical reasons I can’t join the gym but no luck once again. I also rang them to find out if they have received my letters to terminate my membership but the answer was not satisfactory. Unfortunately as letters were sent through normal post I don't have any thing to prove.

you have anything in writing confirming your injuries, and did you write to them before stopping the direct debit?

yes I do have a letter from my GP confirming I have an injury wich prevents me from using gym. Yes I wrote them before stoping the direct debit.

I am not calling ARC I picked phone twice they really harrassed me and I felt really degraded. I am not picking any phone calls, you can imagine how scared am I of them.

Oh yes!! Sosumi I am goign to open ARC letters now .......wish me good luck.

Will write you soon what is in the letters.

I am going to open the ARC letters....and I am very scared.

[Rose Rose]

Hello again,

So finally I did open the letters Virgin Active letter dated 29th October 2007 heading on the letter is

Cancellation of contracted membership letter

They say in letter as they haven't received out standing arrears of £149.85 so now they are referring my account to ARC (Europe) Ltd and £30 debt recovery costs are included in my current debt.

Further they state that I will remain contracted to them for the whole of my 12 month commitment period. If debt is not resolved the amount due may increase on monthly basis until the full balance of 12 month commitment period is reached.

One letter from ARC dated 6 november2007 and Trevor Munn solicitors sent me 2 letters one dated 16th November and 2nd one on 30th November with TM solicitors’ logo. The content of the letter is

A county court claim is now being prepared for issue in local County Court and the following cost will be added

Debt Balance £149.85

Court Fee £20.00

Solicitors £50.00

Interest Due £11.99

-------

Total £231.84

All telephone enquiries made to Trevor Munn solicitors must be directed to ARC on their legal help line. But why?

So please Please Advise.

[spamheed]

Hello again,

 

So finally I did open the letters Virgin Active letter dated 29th October 2007 heading on the letter is

 

Cancellation of contracted membership letter

 

They say in letter as they haven't received out standing arrears of £149.85 so now they are referring my account to ARC (Europe) Ltd and £30 debt recovery costs are included in my current debt. They cannot apply any recovery charges to your account, this is against the OFT guidlines

 

 

Further they state that I will remain contracted to them for the whole of my 12 month commitment period. If debt is not resolved the amount due may increase on monthly basis until the full balance of 12 month commitment period is reached. When does the membership expire?

 

Don't worry too much about court papers for now, I think the first thing to do is establish if the debt is legitimate.

 

All telephone enquiries made to Trevor Munn solicitors must be directed to ARC on their legal help line. But why?

because they are the same company, they are trying to scare you8 by using the solicitors letters, most people get a bit worried when solicitors get involved. They rely very strongly on this.

I have been in contact with a friend who runs a gym and their policy is to recoup the fees regardless of the reason for termination. ie you signed up with us for a year, so we want the years fees, it seems to be a common thing with gyms.

 

There is an issue surrounding the renewal of the membership contract.

 

I would consider sending them the CCA request, even if the debt is not covered by a CA, it will place the account in dispute and allow you a little more time. if and when they come back with the not applicable, then ask them to provide whatever agreement they are relying on. in other words prove the debt is legitimate and prove you have a right to collect it.

 

To do this you need to ensure that they have the LEGAL right to collect the debt.

 

There is a template letter to be found here: Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner

Letter N.

Is it important to start the letter:

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY in Big Bold letters.

 

It is best to send this request via recorded/special delivery as there are some important deadlines to observe.

 

Do not sign the letter and include a £1 postal order, (not a personal cheque) to cover the prescribed fee

 

retain copies of all communications and receipts for postal orders and obtain proof of postage from the Royal Mail website

[sosumi]

Well done for opening those letters Rose!!

Spamheed's advice is top notch, and you'll get a lot more help I'm sure. Once you take the telephone contact away from these DCA oiks, everything changes. It becomes a problem to sort out, but not something to fear. That's why I call them head-monsters. If they have you on the phone they'll say anything to distress you. If they're talking to you, they get inside your head to mess you up. The more you react on the phone, perversely the more they like it. If they've bothered you, that's a small victory to them. How sad and mean is that?

CAG defeats them on this every time. I'll bet it annoys the pants off them!

So, no phone contact - everything in writing. And never ever give them your bank details. Get assertive. DCAs are the - well I daren't say, but you get my drift! Think of it this way. They are bad people. You are not.

Keep posting! xx

[tomterm8]

theres not much point sending a credit agreement request, as this is not a consumer credit regulated debt.

 

Instead, i would send a data protection act S.A.R.

[Rose Rose]

When does the membership expire?

 

According Virgin Actives term n conditions Diamond Membership where written notice of termination must be given by the seventeenth day of the twelfth month (last month of commitment period). If notice of termination is not received in writing by this time the membership will automatically renew for a further twelve months.

 

Spamheed so basically I am sending ARC a letter to send me a CCA (Consumer Credit Act).

 

So here is my check list

 

1- I am starting my letter with these words in bold letters

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

2- Ask my creditor for a copy of my credit agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

3- Not signing the letter.

 

4- Take Photocopies of letter for future reference.

 

5- Making a postal order of 1 pound.

 

6- Sending the post through recorded delivery.

 

7- Obtain proof of postage from Royal Mail website.

 

8- Keeping all postal receipts and photocopies safe.

 

I am feeling like now I am getting some where.

 

Thank you Spamheed: )

[Rose Rose]

Yeah you are cent percent right Sosumi. Let’s see what the verdict will be after that letter to them.

 

I am glad that I have done googling and came into careful hands of people like Spamheed and you. I really appreciate your kind words and all the help you guys are providing here.

 

BLESS YOU BOTH

[Rose Rose]

Thank you Tomterm, Spamheed can you kindly enlighten the difference between CCA and data protection act S.S.A please.

[spamheed]

Tomterm is referring to a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) under the data protection act, this is basically asking a creditor to provide you with every bit of informaion they have in their filing system pertaining to you, this generally provides copies of statements, agreements etc and can divulge quite a bit of information which might not normally be disclosed by a creditor

 

quote from directgov

 

"The Data Protection Act regulates how your personal information is used and protects you from misuse of your personal details.

It provides a common-sense set of rules which prohibit the misuse of your personal information without stopping it being used for legitimate or beneficial purposes.

 

At the heart of the Data Protection Act are eight rules known as the Data Protection Principles.

These require personal information to be:

• fairly and lawfully processed;
  
• processed for limited purposes;
  
• adequate, relevant and not excessive;
  
• accurate;
  
• not kept longer than necessary;
  
• processed in accordance with your rights;
  
• kept secure;
  
• not transferred abroad without adequate protection.

Organisations using personal information ('data controllers') must comply with these Principles. "

 

A CCA request is simply a legal request for a copy of the agreement that you signed on entering the agreement with the creditor. this agreement would fall under the control of the Consumer Credit Act. if a creditor fails to provide this document, then the debt cannot be enforced.

 

please note, not all debts/credit are covered by the CCA and as previously mentioned I very much doubt if your debt would be, I just think it's a tool that on this occasion can be used to slow them down a touch.

[Rose Rose]

Spamheed so I managed to post 2 letters today.

1- To Virgin active along with my GP letter as according to them they didn't receive any of my other letters so far. So I thought better send them another one just for the safe side, obviously this time with especial delivery.

2- To ARC to send me copy of my CCA.

Let’s see what they will come up with?

Retain copies of all communications and receipts for postal orders and obtain proof of postage from the Royal Mail website.

Now I have to check the status of the post from Royal Mails website and print the status. Am I right?

You have described S.A.R so thoroughly, and I am learning loads about things which I have never though about before. I am very thankful to you about your time and help.

Have a nice weekend : ).

As you mentioned chances are that my debt will not be covered by CCA, in that case what will be the next move?

[spamheed]

Yes, you need to get a copy of the receipt from the website.

 

If they try to obtain a copy of a CCA and fail, or tell you from the off that's it not covered, then we would need to ask them for a copy of the agreement they are enforcing.

 

they may be able to rpovide a copy of this, but it would be interesting to see what is covered after the initial membership

[Rose Rose]

Spamheed I am keeping a track of the letter sent to ARC, also printed a receipt from Royal Mail website. It says that they (RM) have received my item and expect to deliver it before the guaranteed time on 28/01/08.

[spamheed]

so now we need to wait, until they either refute the CCA (very likely) or make further contact

[Rose Rose]

Hello Spamheed,

Still no letter from ARC yet. According to RM website my letter was delivered on 28/01/08. I am still having problems to get the electronic proof form their website, site says they(RM) experience delays with this service and can take up to 5 working days for electronic proof (signature of the person who received it) of delivery to be available.

I am keeping the track of it and as soon as it’s with me I will let you know.

[spamheed]

Not a problem, ensure you retaint your receipts for postage and the postal order, if necessary, you can contact RM to obtain proof of recipt, there can be no complaints, this is the service you have paid for.

 

Don't worry if it takes a while to get a response, I CCAd Moorcroft in October and still have had no reply, others on this forum have waited an awful lot longer.

 

If you look at this as a bit of a game, it's now their turn, so we have to wait for them to move before we know exactly what to do next

[Rose Rose]

So here is the reply in my hand received from ARC today.

Letter says!!!

Dear Sir/ Madam,

We are writing to confirm safe receipt of your payment for £1.00.

However, we note that you do not currently have an arrangement in place to clear the remaining balance. Therefore you now need to contact us URGENTLY to set up a new arrangement to clear this debt; otherwise you risk the account being passed to our solicitors for further action.

Please always quote our reference XXXXXXXX in all communications with us.

Yours Faithfully

J Turner

ARC (Europe) Ltd

Nothing else they have provided me so far. What are they playing at? I did ask them to send me the CCA but no response what so ever.

[spamheed]

standard response. File it under ignore

 

At least you know they've got your letter. using the £1 to pay against the balance is something of a no no, but that's their concern. they've got your letter and you can prove it.

 

We now wait, don't worry about their letters, until they furnish you with a copy of your CCA, they can do nothing

[Rose Rose]

Hello Spamheed,

£1.00 postal order which I attached with my letter I didn't mention anything about that in the letter to ARC. May be that’s why they are taking that as a payment towards my debt. Was that a wrong move?

They are still calling me but I am avoiding their calls.

So I have to wait for my CCA from them, what is the time limit on it, can kindly tell me please?

[spamheed]

The £1 fee is the maximum any creditor can charge for a copy of your CCA, this is law, regardless of what they do with the £1, by asking for a copy of the CCA, if you were required to pay a fee, then this would cover it.

 

If you can face answering the phone, do so, tell them to put it in writing and then hang up. you need to say no more than that. They cannot discuss the debt without establishing your identity, that's why they ask security questions. if you refuse to answer any security questions, they must (by law) terminate the call. make a log of every time they call, noting time and dates. if you were mischievious, you could have some fun playing this game.

 

they have 12 working days to furnish you with a copy of the CCA, if they do not fulfill this request, the account goes into default. if the default exists for a further 30 days, they commit a criminal offence when they attemt to collect on it.

 

As previously stated, if they have anything about them at all, I would fully expect a letter stating that this debt is not covered by the CC Act and therefore is due.

 

Dont worry, be happy and keep waiting

 

you have done the right thing

[Rose Rose]

Hello Spamheed,

 

Still no news neither a letter from ARC regarding my CCA.

 

Thought better keep you posted.

 

Making notes of the calls from now on.

 

: )

[spamheed]

I'm sure they'll get in touch eventually, but the longer they take, the better it is

[Rose Rose]

Dear Spamheed Hello,

I have received a letter from ARC today copy of my contract with virgin active and membership rules are also attached with that.

Letter is here for you

Dear XXXXX,

We are writing in response to your recent correspondence.

Please find enclosed a copy of your signed contract form our client which shows you agreed to the term and conditions of the contract. As we have now supplied you with this documentation we require full payment with the next 10 days.

Your payment should be sent directly to this office. Please ensure your payment is made payable to ARC (Europe) Ltd and clearly write your reference number XXXXX on the reverse, or this may delay it being allocated to your account. Alternatively you can telephone us to make a payment by debit or credit card.

If we do not receive your payment within the next 10 days, this account will be passed to our solicitors for further action.

Yours Faithfully,

In the rules under the heading of Debt Collection it says;

If you are a Diamond Member and have committed to a minimum twelve month term and you do not make a monthly payment (with in 30 days of the due date) then we may add to the out standing sum to be collected the reasonable and necessary costs incurred by us in employing third party to collect the outstanding sum (which will not be disproportionate to the sum to be collected).

 

Please guide : (