Debt Management& Recovery Services - Abbey Bank

[nowayjose]

Help needed please:

 

Received today letter from Debt Management & Recovery Services Ltd for an outstanding debt with the Abbey... this is a current account with Abbey which at the moment is in dispute and I am in the process of taking them to court via Moneyclaim online(ALL CASES STAYED !!!) since Aug for unlawful bank charges....the letter reads as follows:-

 

DEFAULT OF PAYMENT

 

Dear Mr & Mrs XXXXXX

 

DRMS Ltd have been instructed by Abbey to obtain immediate settlement of th above debt.

 

Please arrange to pay this amount by return of post. If this is not possible, please call this office today on xxxxxxxxxx to discuss your proposals for future payments.

 

yours sincerely

 

Kerrie Popple

 

** Your account will be closed once the balance has been cleared**

 

My overdraft on this account is £1450 and the balance outstanding is £3127, the claim I have against Abbey is around £2700 plus interest and court fees so if paid out would more or less settle this account. I no longer use this account and all cards and cheque books have been returned to Abbey....any ideas on a reply to this letter as I know a CCA request does not cover overdrafts and bank acccounts is this right:? :?

Any help would be appreciated

 

TYVM

 

Nowayjose xx

[42man]

Naughty, naughty Abbey !!!!! I was under the impression that they are not allowed to pass the debt on whilst it is in dispute !!!!

 

This is taken from the OFT's website...

 

not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or

disputed debt

 

ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are

disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

Take a look here... http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

 

send them this letter....(courtesy of Curlyben)

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Letter Before Action

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Your ref:

 

 

Thank you for your letter of **DATE**, the contents of which are noted.

I refer to my letter of **DATE** a copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

As holders of a Consumer Credit Licence you are obliged to comply with the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines on Debt Collection. I would therefore be obliged if you would provide me with an explanation as to why you are attempting to collect on an alleged debt which was disputed with **BANK **, and has yet to be resolved.

As per OFT guidelines Section 2.8k "not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt."

 

Since this is considered an unfair practice and contrary to the OFT guidelines, you should consider this letter as a formal complaint, and provide me with a copy of your complaint resolution procedure.

I also require you to confirm that you will now comply with the OFT guidelines, and will not attempt any further collection activity whilst the dispute is unresolved.

 

Should you fail to provide me with the required undertaking within 7 days, I shall report your breach of the OFT guidelines to Trading Standards and the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

Take notice that I will not discuss this matter on the telephone, and all further communication must be in writing. Any further telephone calls will be perceived as harassment, and dealt with accordingly.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[majorclanger100]

Yes it does seem that naughty Abbey are trying to collect 'outstanding debts' for accounts in dispute over overdraft charges whilst we await the outcome of the OFT test case.

 

Unfortunately (but probably typically) they just pass the account to another DCA if it is referred back to them - complaining direct to Abbey doesn't work either. I am just about to write to the FSA and OFT about them, in that Abbey seem to be abusing the FSA waiver.

[nowayjose]

Thanks for your reply 42man... printed out and will send today...do you suggest we sign our usual signatures (joint account) or just leave blank as in a CCA request???

Majorclanger keep us posted on how you get on...you seem to be a bit further down the track than me ... good luck

NWJ x

[42man]

NO don't handsign anything !!!

[nowayjose]

Ok thanks recorded delivery today..

[42man]

And make sure you follow through with your complaints.....FOS, THEIR local TS and the OFT....good luck and keep us posted !!!

[Rtech]

My daughter has had something very similare from Abbey,from their..Head Of Collections..

this is the letter being sent to them;-

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for the above referenced letter,although I am totally bemused as to why I have received it.

The author of the letter seems to have taken no notice of the present state of the account as it stands,for the following reasons :-

1) In August of last year,in the High Court in Leeds,YOU applied for and were granted, a ‘stay’, to my claim for ‘penalty charges ‘on this account for a sum in excess of £2400,way above the present outstanding balance.Part of the High Court Order states that NO ENFORCEMENT ACTION IS TO BE TAKEN BY THE BANK TO RECOVER any supposed charges made by them ,until the OFT Test Case has been resolved.AND in addition should any action be taken by the Bank,then the ‘stay’will be lifted,and no doubt ,judgement would be awarded in my favour..

2) I am sure that Abbey conform to The Banking Code,and as such I will draw your attention to s13.6, reference information you may NOT pass on,IF an account is in dispute.The High Court Order I would suggest is reasonable evidence to assume that this account is in dispute.

3) I am also sure that Abbey are fully au fait with the, Office of Fair Tradings code for

Debt Collection Guidance,and I draw your attention to the latest information from their publication,July 2003(updated December 2006);-

The following are deemed to be at the very least UNFAIR practices.

a) Section 2,2 b,Leaving out or presenting information ,in such a way that it creates a false or misleading impression .or exploits debtors’ lack of knowledge.

HOW you could miss the ‘stay’on the account is beyond me.

b)Psychological harassment,as described in Section 2.6 g,making threatening statements or gestures ,or taking actions suggesting harm.

Your last paragraph of your letter threatening collection agencies etc.

c) Section 2.6 h,Ignoring or disregarding claims ,that debts are settled or disputed ,and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

d) Section 2.6 I,Disclosing or threatening to disclose,debt details to third parties ,unless legally entitled to do so.

e) Section 2.6 k,Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt

I can only assume that based on the above,that this letter must have been sent in error,as I am certain you would not wish it to be seen as VEXATIOUS.

Your letter has obviously caused me a great deal of unnecessary concern,and worry,resulting in me having to take third party advice,undergo law and internet research,and take time out from my employment,as well as postage costs,to reply to your letter.As you are a Bank,and regularly make charges to customers,I have taken the liberty of charging you the sum of £35,which I will add to my costs against yourselves.

I further feel,that as a show of good faith by the Bank,that any further fees and/or interest should be frozen,pending the outcome of the OFT Test Case.

I would also point out that I intend to maintain my legal rights, and if necassary, file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.including Leeds High Court.

I trust you will give this due diligence,and look forward to your reply within the next 14 days.

Yours faithfully

[42man]

Thanks for homing in on this thread RTECH.....I didn't realise it was in the banking code too !!!

[Rtech]

Well it would seem that irrespective of what department in Abbey it is,they have decided NOT to reply to letters,EXCEPT by re-sending the same letter we received from them with a new date on it.

The ironic thing about this, is that a copy of their Complaints Procedure,has great quotes like;-

'How to complain.We are serious about your complaint'...AND..

'We promise to..Let you know PROMPTLY that we received your complaint'

Their ignorance and gross bad manners I find very hard to understand.

I am now trying to formulate a plan of action,and as a first step,have contacted the local press,to see if they might want to do a follow up of their initial coverage in the High Court.

Any other ideas etc would be appreciated,as well as any other claimants who are going through this same underhand pressure from Abbey etc,the more pressure we can bring to bear on the Banks,must be in all out interests.

[fuzzybobble]

I've had exactly the same letters from Abbey.

Sent them loads of letters asking for bank charges back,

only to be totally ignored by them. It really does make you wonder what has happened to customer service these days.

 

It's long overdue that companies who blatently abuse the law and ignore the very people that enable them to make their millions of pounds profits each year , are held accountable for how they treat their customers. Count me in for a mass complaint.

 

I've already sent a complaint to trading standards because they passed on a disputed account to a DCA. But a mass complaint from people on the CAG and some negative media attention must be able to have more of an impact.

[nowayjose]

Another letter received today...

 

Dear MR & MRS ****

 

As you have not paid the money you owe, I am serving you notice that your account is being returned to the Abbey. This will result in further action being taken to recover the debt.

Please note that we are now able to offer you a discount to the above balance, if you are prepared to make a single partial payment.

I would ask you to phone this office to discuss the specific discount that we can offer you and agree a mutually acceptable date on which this payment is made.

This offer is valid for 10 days from the date of this letter.

Yours sincerely

Kerri Popple

**Please note The Abbey account will close following clearance of the outstanding balance**

 

Well it seems that they are passing it back to Abbey because cant collect this debt... do you think that means they will pass it on to somebody else...

Any advice appreciated

Thanks NWJx

[nowayjose]

Bump...anyone???

[Rtech]

Actually,I would not do anything.The 'account is in dispute' and Abbey are fully aware of that ????therefore as stated in your letter,they would be acting against the OFT's Debt Collection Guidance,and doubt they will take any action.

You should ensure that the claim for penalty charges etc is put in asap.In all Stayed claims as far as I know,no recovery action is permissable by the Banks until this OFT test case is finished.

[nowayjose]

Thanks Rtech, my claim for unfair penalty charges was submitted in Aug last year and like all other claims has been stayed pending the outcome of the OFT...shall wait and see if any further contact comes from Abbey...

NWJx

[nowayjose]

Hi update on this thread help needed please... well it seems that Abbey has passed this debt onto another DCA this time its Equidebt....a couple of weeks ago I received the following letter :-

 

With reference to your outstanding account with our above named client.

I have now been authorised to offer you a discount in respect of this matter.

Please contact this office on Freephone 08000324274 today to obtain details of this reduction.

 

I replied to Equidebt with this reply:-

 

Thank you for your letter of 11/03/08, the contents of which are noted.

 

As holders of a Consumer Credit Licence you are obliged to comply with the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines on Debt Collection. I would therefore be obliged if you would provide me with an explanation as to why you are attempting to collect on an alleged debt which was disputed with ABBEY, and has yet to be resolved.

As per OFT guidelines Section 2.8k "not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt."

 

Since this is considered an unfair practice and contrary to the OFT guidelines, you should consider this letter as a formal complaint, and provide me with a copy of your complaint resolution procedure.

I also require you to confirm that you will now comply with the OFT guidelines, and will not attempt any further collection activity whilst the dispute is unresolved.

 

Should you fail to provide me with the required undertaking within 7 days, I shall report your breach of the OFT guidelines to Trading Standards and the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

Take notice that I will not discuss this matter on the telephone, and all further communication must be in writing. Any further telephone calls will be perceived as harassment, and dealt with accordingly.

 

 

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Well today I received the following reply:-

 

We are preparing documents to issue County Court Proceedings against you.

 

Payment in full to prevent court action should be sent to us no later than 10 April 08, by Cheque or Postal Order, payable to Equidebt limited and sent to the above address clearly quoting the reference number.

 

If this presents you with any difficulties you must contact us immediately on the above telephone number.

 

If you have any reason to dispute the outstanding debt you must contact us or instruct your solicitor or legal representative to contact us by 10 April.

 

If we do not hear from you, County Court Proceedings will be commenced without further notice.

 

I have also had numerous phone calls which I let go to answerphone, usually 3 or 4 times a week asking me to contact them asap.

 

They just seemed to ignore the letter I sent them... any ideas on how to reply to the latest letter...

Thanks NWJx

[42man]

Edit to suit....

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for the above referenced letter,although I am totally bemused as to why I have received it.

 

The author of the letter seems to have taken no notice of the present state of the account as it stands,for the following reasons :-

 

1) In August of last year,in the High Court in Leeds,YOU applied for and were granted, a ‘stay’, to my claim for ‘penalty charges ‘on this account for a sum in excess of £2400,way above the present outstanding balance.Part of the High Court Order states that NO ENFORCEMENT ACTION IS TO BE TAKEN BY THE BANK TO RECOVER any supposed charges made by them ,until the OFT Test Case has been resolved.AND in addition should any action be taken by the Bank,then the ‘stay’will be lifted,and no doubt ,judgement would be awarded in my favour..

 

2) I am sure that Abbey conform to The Banking Code,and as such I will draw your attention to s13.6, reference information you may NOT pass on,IF an account is in dispute.The High Court Order I would suggest is reasonable evidence to assume that this account is in dispute.

 

3) I am also sure that Abbey are fully au fait with the, Office of Fair Tradings code for

Debt Collection Guidance,and I draw your attention to the latest information from their publication,July 2003(updated December 2006);-

 

The following are deemed to be at the very least UNFAIR practices.

 

a) Section 2,2 b,Leaving out or presenting information ,in such a way that it creates a false or misleading impression .or exploits debtors’ lack of knowledge.

HOW you could miss the ‘stay’on the account is beyond me.

 

b)Psychological harassment,as described in Section 2.6 g,making threatening statements or gestures ,or taking actions suggesting harm.

Your last paragraph of your letter threatening collection agencies etc.

 

c) Section 2.6 h,Ignoring or disregarding claims ,that debts are settled or disputed ,and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

d) Section 2.6 I,Disclosing or threatening to disclose,debt details to third parties ,unless legally entitled to do so.

 

e) Section 2.6 k,Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt

 

I can only assume that based on the above,that this letter must have been sent in error,as I am certain you would not wish it to be seen as VEXATIOUS.

 

Your letter has obviously caused me a great deal of unnecessary concern,and worry,resulting in me having to take third party advice,undergo law and internet research,and take time out from my employment,as well as postage costs,to reply to your letter.As you are a Bank,and regularly make charges to customers,I have taken the liberty of charging you the sum of £35,which I will add to my costs against yourselves.

 

I further feel,that as a show of good faith by the Bank,that any further fees and/or interest should be frozen,pending the outcome of the OFT Test Case.

 

I would also point out that I intend to maintain my legal rights,and if necassary, file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.including Leeds High Court.

 

I trust you will give this due diligence,and look forward to your reply within the next 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

[42man]

or possibly this one...

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the **original creditor/DCA** and has been since DATE 2007.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My last letter from **original creditor/DCA** was DATE and intimated that my complaint would be

resolved on **DATE**, this obviously hasn’t happened.

As **original creditor/DCA** are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, OFT Collection Guidelines, *Subject Access request and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the **original creditor/DCA** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as **New DCA** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If **New DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[Rtech]

I really cannot see that they can institute Court proceedings, if yoiu

have the initial claim stayed,and would therefore be pretty certain that the Court would sling it out.

As you advised them in your letter to them(presume you have proof of delivery for that ??) that you would go down the OFT complaints route etc,I would do that.

[fuzzybobble]

I sent DM&RS the second letter. I also raised a formal complaint with Abbey demanding an expaination as to why they sent a disputed debt to a third party. Then pointed out a few quotes from the OFT guidelines.

 

Abbey never bothered to reply, nor did DM&RS.

But no threat-o-grams for over 6 weeks now.

[42man]

You have to exhaust the complaints procedure first before you approach the FOS...but it seems they haven't answered your complaint which they are supposed to do within 14 days !!!! this is up against banking regulations too....I would ring the FOS and get them to send you a complaint pack or download one from their website....!!

[nowayjose]

Thanks everyone... 42man I think I will send your second letter as my first letter I foolishly didnt send recorded delivery... probably why they ignored it?? I will send first thing in the morning and will probably be back on here for advice soon ....

Thanx NWJx

[nowayjose]

Well a mini result I think...

 

received this week the following letter from Equidebt which reads as follows:-

 

Dear Mr & Mrs *****

 

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 22nd March and I apologise for not replying sooner. We regret that you have felt it necessary to complain about our service and would like to assure you that your complaint has been investigated.

I would like to confirm that we were not aware that you are in dispute with Abbey until we received your letter. A hold has been placed on the above account as of todays date and all collection activity has ceased until this matter is resolved.

I have enclosed a copy of our complaints policy as you have requested.

I should though like to apologise for any inconvenience that has been caused and hope you are satisfied with our response. If you remain dissatisfied then I should inform you that you have the right within six months from the date of this letter to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Services.

I have enclosed the FOS booklet for your information explaining the services that the Ombudsman provides.

Yours sincerely

 

Mrs Clare Jensen

Senior Advisor

Compliance Dept

Equidebt Ltd

 

Well...what do you think of that then??

 

Dont suppose it will be long before its passed to somebody else though!

 

At least the phone calls have stopped...

Thanks everyone for the letters

 

NWJx