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    • love the extra £1000 charge for confidentialy there BF   Also OP even if they don't offer OOC it doesn't mean your claim isn't good. I had 3 against EVRi that were heard over the last 3 weeks. They sent me emails asking me to discontinue as I wouldn't win. Went infront of a judge and won all 3.    Just remember the law is on your side. The judges will be aware of this.   Where you can its important to try to point out at the hearing the specific part of the contract they breached. I found this was very helpful and the Judge made reference to it when they gave their judgements and it seemed this was pretty important as once you have identified a specific breach the matter turns straight to liability. From there its a case of pointing out the unlawfullness of their insurance and then that should be it.
    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
    • just type no need to keep hitting quote... as has already been said, they use their own criteria. if a person is not stated as linked to you on your file then no cant hurt you. not all creditors use every CRA provider, there are only 3 main credit file providers mind, the rest are just 3rd party data sharers. if you already have revolving credit on your file there is no need to apply for anything just 'because' you need to show you can handle money. if you have bank account(s) and a mortgage which you are servicing (paying) then nothing more can improve your score, despite what these 'scam' sites claiml  its all a CON!!  
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ISP's releasing personal information - re Davenport Lyons


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First before I continue with my post, here is the background to the case and how they get ISP's to cough up personal information on its customers.

 

My wife is one of those falsey accused and she there was letters goign to and throw from March last year until April, then it stopped until this week when they sent another letter now asking for £525 instead of £325 with another undetaking form attached, we had edited the last two and sent them back with no money and also this latest letter had a blank judgment document attached which is supposed to have been used by them in a successfull case, which looking at the form, seems this is just anothre rouse to get people to give into to their intimidation of innocent people.

 

Swarm of file sharers spurred UK crackdown | The Register

 

Slyck.com • View topic - legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

 

Note there are other articles and thread at these locations which cover the subject further as Davenport Lyons is still doing the same unchallenged by anyone.

 

Anyway I think now the best way to stop Davenport Lyons is to challenge the way they get the information from ISP's via a court order which is granted on information from Logistep, a swedish company, which uses methods to collect information on IP numbers etc, which has no sound metjod, i.e anyone can get an IP address and produce such evidence as they have produced. The worrying thing is because this is a civil case, innocent until proven guilty does not apply as if it went to court, its goign to be Joe Bloggs who cannot afford a solicitor taking on a legal firm who will manipulate evidence that no doubt will blind a court into thinking Davenport Lyons and Logistep have sound evidence.

 

So since ISP are realising private information how does one stop them and what laws can one use in the consumer side of things, data protection etc.

 

I have come here by the way as someone so my post on this subject in a local newsgroup and suggested I post here ina ddition to other sites I have asked this question on.

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I am afraid that I have absolutely no knowledge on this sort of stuff before, but if you just go out and buy the software, does this not stuff their case? £350 is a bit steep, but it is for loss isnt it? If you bought the game then there would be no loss.

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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Well if one has not done as they say, why would I buy something which I do not want and which is immaterial really as the false charges are that someone in our household has been sharing something which is not the case.

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Gecko.In many respects you can draw an analogy with the registered owner of a car receiving a parking 'fine'. All you have to do is write back and say more than one person uses your computer, and you are not aware of anyone downloading this game, so unless they can identify the particular person involved, you are unable to help. If they write back saying you HAVE to say who the culprit was, reply asking where in law you are required to do this.

If you post any correspondence received on this forum, I am sure there will many people able to help you with the replies.

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  • 3 weeks later...

As posted many times, do not ignore the letters. However, using the templates on here and at penaltycharges dot co dot uk, contest the claim under CPA rules; ie gather all the evidence they claim to have against you.

 

Once you have this, you can start to mount your defence.

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  • 1 month later...

I've just got one of these letters last week, even more to cheek of it, I already owned the game in question before the date given.

 

I've had a quick loko around, wondering what to do, starting to think it may be best to contact to state this fact, and request exactly what evidence that would link to me specifically they have?

 

what is CPA referring to?, just trying to figure best approach to contact with.

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When you use P2P, (or any site on the net), your ip can be seen by those you are downloading from. If they put their game on P2P and you download it, they have your ip address. That ip address is unique to you and will tell them the ISP and the UBR that you are connected to. All they then have to do is ask the ISP who owns ip address xxx.xxx.xx.xxx, it's as simple as that.

 

I don't know how they get around the legal side of a foreign company demanding payment in a country where they have no legal jurisdiction, or how they have managed to get the ISP to give this information.

 

Are these damands coming from a UK lawyer?

 

Besides all that, how can they demand such a large amount. I could see how the record companies can make up stupid figures by assuming if you downloaded one record, you probably dowloaded dozens.

With a game, you only download one thing and surely they can only ask at most the retail price of that one game.

 

Unless this is a [problem] as you both deny ever downloading it.

 

If this was me, then I would ask my ISP if they have given this information to anyone or S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them and get the info that way. £10 has to be better than £350.

 

I think this a hope we get someone to respond letter.

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  • 3 months later...

Hi, I too have had a letter like this.

 

We had a card come from Royal Mail, it wasn't addressed to Mr or Mrs, my mom thought it was hers and had to pay £1.66 to get the letter to find out it was addressed to me from Davenport Lyons.

 

This just adds insult to injury!

 

They are expecting £505 for something I have no knowledge of.

I'm not sure on what to do? We have a wireless network and have for a long time now, and had no knowledge of this happening, I've done all I can as far as encrypting the network is concerned but even then it's not anywhere near 100% secure.

 

Where do I stand? I can't afford to pay that sort of money.

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They cannot prove it was *you* simply by an IP address. If they tried a criminal court it would fails The Laws Test (unsufficient evidence and would be contradicted).

 

A civil case would rest on balance of probabillity, but a good solicitor would rip their case to shreds.

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I have just read the above link and there is NO requirement for you, or for anyone, to have a firewall and antivirus or to encrypt your wireless router. It is 'advisable' to have security, so their demand that documentation is supplied to prove you have it and it is set up correctly is just rubbish.

 

The amount demanded is also bunk, they will have to prove, not just guess, that this is how much having it on your pc has cost them, in other words if the game cost £40 and they want £500, they need to show that 12 people have downloaded it from you and only you.

 

If you are one of the ones who has never heard of this game and are not a game player, then you are in a better position to challenge them than someone who has, and your information could be very useful to other.

 

Also, if it is themselves who have put it into the P2P for download in the hope of catching someone ie 'had lured the accused into committing an act', then it is my belief that they have offered it for download free of charge.

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An ex workmate of mine (who I am unfortuantly no longer in contact with) had a similar issue, and it turned out to be due (we think) to his wireless internet having no security. He basicly replied that this was the case and he has now set up his wireless settings on his router properly and he got nothing more from them. (I dunno if its the same outfit... sounds like a similar thing tho!)

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You could contact your ISP, and ask why they released your data to a third party, and on what grounds. Await their reply before proceeding.

 

if it is along the lines of "company xyz /said/ you had infringed copyright [or downloaded/shared this software]" or "provided evidence that..." ask for a copy of the correspondence alleging/demonstrating this. I'm wondering on what grounds ISPs *are* releasing personal data. Would be interesting to see.

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When you use P2P, (or any site on the net), your ip can be seen by those you are downloading from. If they put their game on P2P and you download it, they have your ip address. That ip address is unique to you and will tell them the ISP and the UBR that you are connected to. All they then have to do is ask the ISP who owns ip address xxx.xxx.xx.xxx, it's as simple as that.

 

not quite as simple. You have an IP allocated by a DHCP server that gives you an IP for a set amount of time. You're IP will change over time so the company in question would need to ask who has a particular IP at a particular moment in time. And it is only unique in the sense that the actual IP is unique. Obviously a comany such as NTL will buy a finite block of IPs and each one will be assigned to different people over the period of it's life. it's absolutely essential that they isolate a particular period of time and that that period of time was the time that the IP was leased to you.

 

And surely they need to prove you are in posession of this game and indeed used it. If they put their own game on P2P and someone downloaded it is that not entrapment ? I'd love for soemone the challenge these companies ..

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I understand all that hamish but didn't go that far into is as it will just over complicate things, but you are right except for those with a static IP.

 

I put in my second post:

 

Also, if it is themselves who have put it into the P2P for download in the hope of catching someone ie 'had lured the accused into committing an act', then it is my belief that they have offered it for download free of charge.

 

I purposely did not use the word 'entrapment' as that is not a defence in English law.

It is the final part of the above that would be a defence.

 

All the things on P2P are free, there is no way of charging for it, (I suppose you could put up legal time limited software with an offer to allow it to continue for a fee), so if they put it on themselves in the hope of enticing downloads, then they are offering it free and cannot charge (extortionately) at a later date and make threats if you do not pay.

 

If there was any Spyware contained within that program offered for free on P2P then they could also be guilty under the Computer Misuse Act 1990 (c. one eight)

Edited by Conniff
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It's on today's BBC News website...

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Dunno if its acceptable to post these links here, if not can a mod delete the post please

 

Victims of WiFi Theft Not Responsible For Illegal Uploads | TorrentFreak

 

Anti-Piracy Evidence Put in Doubt by Leecher | TorrentFreak

If in doubt, contact a qualified insured legal professional (or my wife... she knows EVERYTHING)

 

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  • 1 month later...

I've never downloaded anything in my life. They are alledging the download of Test Drive Unlimited and claiming £565.00. I contacted them and explained that if anyone did download it, it would have been a 13 year old child. I told them I was on benefits and couldn't pay the amount. They instead sent out a payment schedule which would end up costing me £665! There have been numerous arguments, tears and tantrums in this house. I can't sleep or even eat properly.

 

The computer was a gift from his dad, I got broadband when I was working and subsequently re-negotiated my telephone so I could afford it. I've got a daughter who was 3 at the time of the alledged offence, she is lovely but demands my attention all the time. I've had people telling me that I'm a bad parent for not keeping a closer watch on my son, all I can say to that is his dad installed the computer and I assumed he knew what he was doing re internet settings etc. I'm not very computer literate myself. I can't believe I am the only person to be in this position. Before this happened I was more worried about internet grooming than this stuff.

 

If they get a judgment against me then what will happen? I have no property or assets. I can't work now my daughter is at school, rather than day nursery, as there is no out of school provision in this area and there are very few jobs that are only term-time and school hours! (No I don't feel I could be a childminder). They might as well take me to court for £16,000 as £665 because either amount is out of my reach. I'm a nervous wreck.

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