Did anyone see BBC24 re bailiffs today?

[The Watcher]

Largely agree with the above ... the MAIN problem is that while ever bailiffs are paid on results, they have a financial incentive to break / bend the law. A successful result lines THEIR pockets (see post above re bailiff who arrived in a Lexus !)

 

Why do you think bailiffs get out of bed at 4am - so they can knock at your door at 6.00am? Because it pays them to !

[JonCris]

Hi Everyone,

 

Confession time, I am the fool in the BBC Clip and whilst I agree with a number of points made about changes in the law have reached one conclusion. I obeyed the law and foolishly and naively expected others to do the same, they wont, whatever the law it will be abused. The attack on me resulted in my being threatened with arrest ? The police even made me pay an extra £200 for a van in attendance that was not there, the only car was the bailiffs Lexus.

Kind regards

Simon Cousins

 

The police show an appalling lack of knowledge of the law - either that or they don't care - I mean who's going to listen to a 'feckless' debtor

 

I realize it's a bit like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted but I think nothing is lost by complaining to the Chief Constable - after all it's all on telly - & it might cause them to think twice the next time.

 

I have suggested this before but I think, like we have court buddies, there is an argument for having bailiff buddies. - We could support & witness the behaviour of both the police & bailiffs - also knowing there is someone there from a consumer website could make them act lawfully

[The Watcher]

The police show an appalling lack of knowledge of the law - either that or they don't care - I mean who's going to listen to a 'feckless' debtor

 

Some have tried to make things clearer -

 

http://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/v3/pdfstore/CJU_D222.pdf

 

We should ALL contact our local police and ask if they intend to educate their own officers by issuing similar advice?

[chris600uk]

That really is the key, if Chief Constables, who are no doubt very busy people, had to spend lots of time answering letters to concerned SUBJECTS, cos we are definitely not citizens no matter what Blair said, they might just give re-education a higher priority.

 

Perhaps a template letter which many of us could agree on and then use might be the way forward.

 

After all, lots of people may want to write, but be put off by the difficulty many face trying to put a letter together.

[vickym]

I've been a tax payer all my life and it irritates me no end that "career doleys" who choose state benefits as a life choice have their fines paid by me and eveyone else who pays tax. It annoys me even more that wealthy folk who clearly have the means to pay but choose not to because they think the law doesn't apply to them, constantly get away with it.

 

Wow! What about the vast majority of people who don't fall into those 2 narrow categories, and who DO try and co-operate with the bailiffs and yet are still victims of a corrupt system?

[The Watcher]

That really is the key, if Chief Constables, who are no doubt very busy people, had to spend lots of time answering letters

 

Especially if we can show that the actions of HIS officers are directly contradictory to the legal advice given by OTHER police forces ?

[chris600uk]

Wow! What about the vast majority of people who don't fall into those 2 narrow categories, and who DO try and co-operate with the bailiffs and yet are still victims of a corrupt system?

 

Vicky that's exactly the reason why they do become victims, because they co-operate.

 

My view point may be cynical, but I believe it suits the MP's and the Council leaders to have this system - if it didn't we wouldn't have it.

Many thousands of pounds are spent on feasibility studies done for the councils and the government - when you read them it becomes clear that the only thing that seems to matter to them is the end result, which is raising revenue.

 

"Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes..." Helvering v Gregory, (1934):

Now if you take THAT point of view you'll stop being a victim.

[chris600uk]

Especially if we can show that the actions of HIS officers are directly contradictory to the legal advice given by OTHER police forces ?

 

 

yes, and it'd make a great sticky, could be used to send to Council leaders, MP's, all sorts.

[rambo]

I do not expect the police to know every law, even solicitors don't know every law.

What I do expect though is when a bailiff act's illegally(ie, takes a car on finance) the police should act. I am fed up with the standard police reply of "it's a civil matter".

There are counless example's on this site where bailiff's have acted illegally and the police have done nothing.

I am currently is dispute with a council about an illegaly issued parking ticket, the tickets have already been proven to be illegal and yet they keep issueing them, if I was not aware of how to challange the ticket, the next step would be a bailiff calling at my door.

The whole system is a complete nightmare!.

[chris600uk]

That's why I suggest contacting the Chief Constable, who either has legal knowledge of his own or fairly rapid access to someone who does.

 

It's all too easy to give in when a copper who doesn't want to do anything very convincingly says there is nothing to be done.

[The Watcher]

I do not expect the police to know every law, even solicitors don't know every law.

 

In which case they should NOT act at all - until they know what the law is !

 

Their contribution (as outlined by the Devon & Cornwall police) should be to merely prevent a Breach of the Peace UNTIL they know what the law is !!

 

I wonder how many PC's even know that Bailiffs need to be Certificated by Courts (and how to check such Certification)?

[jansus]

Hi Everyone,

 

Confession time, I am the fool in the BBC Clip and whilst I agree with a number of points made about changes in the law have reached one conclusion. I obeyed the law and foolishly and naively expected others to do the same, they wont, whatever the law it will be abused. The attack on me resulted in my being threatened with arrest ? The police even made me pay an extra £200 for a van in attendance that was not there, the only car was the bailiffs Lexus.

Kind regards

Simon Cousins

 

Sorry to interrupt the bun fight - but I thought you made your points very well - you were asking for regulation and that came accross.

 

Sorry if this info has been posted before - but might help someone

 

 

 

Will I get advance notice of a bailiff visit and fees?

From 1 April 1998, local authorities must send you a letter giving 14 days notice of a proposed bailiff visit to collect council tax. County court bailiffs must issue a warning notice allowing 7 days for you to pay.

Do I have to pay the bailiff's fees?

The fees that bailiffs can charge for recovering money vary. There are fixed fees for bailiffs collecting council tax; for example, from 1 April 1998 fees for the first visit by a bailiff are £20 and £15 for a second visit, where no levy or seizure is made.

All bailiff fees (with the exception of magistrates' court bailiffs) can be looked at by the county court to see if they are reasonable or excessive. This is known as 'detailed assessment'. If you think that the bailiff's fees are excessive you should get further advice about this.

back to top

What should I do if a bailiff is about to visit my home?

Remember you do not have to let a bailiff into your house or flat. If you make sure that all doors and windows are locked, the bailiff will not be able to gain access to your home. If they cannot get in, they cannot lawfully seize goods. A bailiff may call a number of times to try and gain entry. Eventually they will return the warrant to the court or local authority if they are unable to gain entry, or you do not have enough goods to pay off the debt and fees.

Secondly, get the matter out of the hands of the bailiff and back to the county court, local authority or creditor. The next paragraph tells you how to do this.

If the debt is an unpaid county court judgment you can apply to the court to stop (''suspend'') the warrant and vary the instalments you were ordered to pay by the court. You can apply to do this on form N245, available from the court. The form asks for details of your income and outgoings with a few personal details such as whether you work. You will have to pay a fee at the court (currently £30), unless you are getting income support, income-based jobseeker's allowance or tax credits*. You may have to show proof that you are receiving these benefits.

 

 

fom national insolvency website

[rambo]

The watcher, that's a good point.

I am a private hire driver, I was stopped by the police for not wearing my seatbelt, I told the police officer that I did not have to wear a seatbelt when I had a passenger on board, the policeman said "I will give you a ticket and you will have to write a letter to appeal", I told him I would not accept the ticket and made a right fuss, he got on his radio and then let me go with no ticket.

I think what we need to do is have the relevant legislation handy when dealing with bailiffs and then if the police get involved we can show the police the law, they then MUST act to help us.

[chris600uk]

people should be able to trust bailiffs....

 

That it didn't help to refuse entry.....

 

:lol: Well it helped me!!

[tonycee]

 

 

Well it helped me!!

 

 

 

 

 

Its helping me too NOW, but it cost me £2k in fees before i found out

[chris600uk]

:grin:

[John McKenna]

As if anybody actually cares who you are, or what you think.

I know YOU care tony or you wouldn't have bothered replying in the first place. However, after reading your last post about it costing you nearly £2k in bailiff's fees, I now feel your pain.

[tomtubby]

I have not wanted to get into a bunfight on this subject but I feel that I should make some very important points about the bailiff industry, in particular to put the record straight on the notion that many people are refusing to pay, have 50"plasma televisions, gated high walled properties with flash cars in the drive. I can assure you that these people are in the MINORITY and is the mantra that is spoken by each and every bailiff that I talk with daily.

 

One little known fact is that 98.6% of the entire population actually pay their council tax....a most remarkable figure given the state of the economy.

 

Another little known fact is that 4 million Liability Orders were obtained last year for unpaid council tax of which approx: half remain WITH the local council , many pay in full, and the remainder are passed to bailiffs. The council however charge a summons cost AND Liability Order fee on top of each LO, and the typical charge is an ADDITIONAL amount of £95 for EACH Liability Order. By the way,each local authority are allowed to keep this fee.

 

Turning now to the statements that most bailiffs act within the law etc, etc.

 

As many of you on here will know, our company has a website to advise the public on all matters relating to bailiffs and we also deal with enquiries from the public, local authorities, advice agencies, police and also bailiffs. I am certainly NOT an expert, but I can say with all honesty that within the past month I have found that bailiffs and their companies have become far more ruthless and agressive, their fees are much increased and the level of complaints has risen dramatically.

 

I am also seeing more cases than ever of bailiffs clamping vehicles within just days of the warrant being issued and before a payment could have been made, charging a first and second visit fee AND levy fee BEFORE paying an initial visit for unpaid council tax....and even clamping a vehicle using a Warrant of Execution that had never been authorised by the Traffic Enforcement Centre !!!

 

And finally, just to confirm that the public are complaining you may wish to note that our web designers have provided me with the following statistics for our bailiff website. These show that since July the site has received the following:

 

Number of Hits: 997,000

 

Number of Unique Visitors: 37,636

 

Number of pages viewed: 132,816

 

and the most viewed pages were:

 

Bailiff Complaints

 

How to Complain

 

Bailiff Fees

 

CSA & Bailiffs

 

Vehicle Clamping.

 

I think the figures speak for themselves........

[tonycee]

I now feel your pain.

 

Im sory, but i find this comment totally hyporcritical.

 

Anybody who actually feels pain, would simply not do this job in the first place.

Instead you add untold misery to what is already an often desperate situation.

I dont, and have never condoned debt avoidance.

In fact, i was hounded out of the DCA forum because of my comments and beliefs.

What i object to is a self appointed "Saint", who thinks that he/she has the right to act as executioner.

Regardless of todays rights and wrongs in society, anybody who consciously chooses to be a bailiff, are nothing more than parasites in my book.

 

You try telling peoples kids that they cant eat because the bailiff company has added £200 in charges to a £200 debt that was paid 24 hours late.

 

Bailiffs are ****, always have been, always will be.

 

NOTHING anybody ever tells me will change my mind.

[John McKenna]

Im sory, but i find this comment totally hyporcritical.

And that's precisely how I meant it tonycee. I come across people with your attitude every day. Your narrow minded perception that each debt settled with the bailiff results in bread and water for tea is as ridiculous as me suggesting all debtors are ****.

 

With that said, you're right, no one will ever change your mind so my last bun has been thrown.

[tonycee]

Your narrow minded perception that each debt settled with the bailiff results in bread and water for tea

 

Pray tell me, oh holy one, how do you conclude that perception of me.

 

 

With that said, you're right, no one will ever change your mind so my last bun has been thrown.

 

Well, thats a relief.

 

No chance you want to tell me what gives YOU the right to do what you do?.

Who the hell do you think you are for goodness sake?.

[chris600uk]

Bailiffs are ****, always have been, always will be.

 

That's too much of a sweeping statement for me tony.

 

Yes I agree, some, possibly many of them are **** just as you say, but I don't believe it's fair to apply that label to every single one.

[tonycee]

Yes I agree, some, possibly many of them are **** just as you say, but I don't believe it's fair to apply that label to every single one.

 

Then i apologies unreservedly.

 

I will NEVER get my head around ANY human being, actually choosing to do this for a living.

 

Never will emotions run higher than when children, and bailiffs are concerened.

[chris600uk]

That's called being human tony, it's what we do:-)

[chris600uk]

That makes sense, there must be members in every constabulary who'd write.

I'd write one.