Did anyone see BBC24 re bailiffs today?

[Givuzagame]

There was a short chat with a bailiff from the programme bailiffs.

Forgive me if I don't quote exactly, it came on quickly no time to record exact wording or the interview itself but the gist was;

 

He said that bailiffs should be regulated and that people should be able to trust bailiffs....

 

That it didn't help to refuse entry.....

 

He also stated that it was would be unusual for a bailiff to gain access via an unlocked door or open window...

 

There was some statement about 1% re complaints too....

 

If anyone caught the whole thing, perhaps a transcript for CAG?

 

It was incredibly uninformative for any one having bailiff trouble re helping them.

 

No statement re legal rights to refuse entry etc....

 

No mention of CAG....

[ozzywizard]

ty for the info , more awareness is defo needed .

[tonycee]

The reports are here.

BBC NEWS | UK | Bailiffs 'unlawfully enter homes'

and here.

BBC News Player - Bailiffs' 'unlawful' actions

[Givuzagame]

The reports are here.

BBC NEWS | UK | Bailiffs 'unlawfully enter homes'

and here.

BBC News Player - Bailiffs' 'unlawful' actions

 

Thank you Tonycee!

[tonycee]

There are many more bailiff stories here.

bailiffs

Some are very sad, but all are informative in one form or another.

[Annoying Twit]

When I looked at the first link posted by tonycee, the "see also" links on the side make depressing reading.

 

SEE ALSO

Law change 'puts debtors at risk'

05 Mar 07 | UK

What to do when the bailiffs come

05 Mar 07 | Business

Ministers warned over bailiff law

13 Feb 07 | Politics

Lords urged to curb bailiff power

29 Nov 06 | Politics

Bent bailiffs 'rip off and lie'

26 Sep 06 | London

UK bailiff law 'worst in world'

21 Mar 06 | File on 4

[John McKenna]

I know Mr Waller is universally hated around these parts but like myself, he's had to deal with the other side of the coin on a regular basis. I know many who post on these forums think that debt recovery should be all sweetness and light but the reality is far from that. I would personally be over the moon if everyone with an outstanding "official" debt responded to letters and actually attempted to settle them. Unfortunately, a "large majority" I deal with suffer from either ostrich mentallity or simply refuse to take responsibility for their own actions and think the world owes them a living.

 

I've been a tax payer all my life and it irritates me no end that "career doleys" who choose state benefits as a life choice have their fines paid by me and eveyone else who pays tax. It annoys me even more that wealthy folk who clearly have the means to pay but choose not to because they think the law doesn't apply to them, constantly get away with it.

 

Referring to the BBC report posted, I'm sure the National Debtline has genuine grievances about the actions of some bailiffs but they're only complaining about a small minority of cases compared to the amount of warrants paid without complaint. Yes, there are plenty of bailiffs out there who break the laws of enforcement but how many debtors willfully avoid paying the debts in the first place and go on to break the law trying to avoid paying them?. I've lost count of the amount of clamps I've had cut off cars by debtors willfully trying to avoid paying a debt they've been warned about time and time again. Many don't even try and arrange payment. It's simply "sod you Mr Bailiff and sod the system". These people I type about need zero tolerance as far as I'm concerned.

 

As for Citizens Advice Bureau claiming...

 

Research of 500 cases by the Citizens Advice service in March last year also showed that almost two-thirds of bailiffs were guilty of harassment or intimidation, while 40% misled people about their powers of entry.

Again I question the ACTUAL impact of these statistics. I personally deal with an average of maybe 100 cases per month consisting of mainly HMCS and PCN warrants with a few HMRC thrown in for good measure. I rarely get complaints but I'm certainly guilty of "harassment or intimidation" in many people's eyes. I've had complaints lodged against me because I've "threatened to remove" someone's goods if they don't pay. I've had complaints against be for causing distress while executing DISTRESS WARRANTS and I've had complaints for charging debtors a fee for legally seizing their goods and giving them time to pay when full payment clearly couldn't be made upon initial attendance.

 

I hold my hand on heart when I say I do my job within the boundaries of the law. I have a family to feed, bills to pay and take my career as a bailiff very seriously. I certainly don't condone the actions of the many bailiffs who mislead folk about their powers but this industry is not a level playing field. More often than not this industry is cat and mouse and if the mouse thinks he can get away with avoiding enforcement he'll squeak until his tail is finally chopped off.

 

I welcome further regulation which is why I help folk out on here if I think they've been treated unlawfully but debtors have to take responsibilty themselves and stop whinging when the bailiff comes calling. A small minority aside, the vast majority of debtors know they're in the wrong but refuse to take it on the chin and pay their dues. I'm afraid the "I've not received any letters about this... and the "I can't afford to pay this debt cos my car loan, 52" plasma telly rental is due" just doesn't wash anymore......

 

The buck has to stop somewhere.

 

[John McKenna]

I sense you may have issues with bailiffs tonycee.

 

I understand if your personal experience sways your thoughts away from the wider issues I discuss. I'm sure it's only human nature to get emotional about such issues if you've been on the recieving end of a percieved unjust enforcement.

 

However, I've read your comments several times over now and can't help think your knee jerk reaction is a littlle too personalised. Anyone would think I've addressed you specifically. Not everybody on these forums is driven by the same mindset tonycee. While I accept your emotional response without prejudice, I urge you to think of the wider social issue of responsibility. Folk are far too concerned about upholding their rights than dealing with their responsibilities.

[vecko]

Dear J McK

 

You are obviously a registered saint. A "never done anyone a favour because you never expect one in return sort of person".

 

The world is an evil place and people like you make money on it.

 

I was an upstanding citizen who always saved, if I borrowed I paid it back on time with interest. **** happens! People get sick - businessses fail - relationships fall apart, some people can't deal with it properly. I paid every penny I had for two years toward my debt and it still wasn't good enough for people like you. I ruined my health and was near to suicide.

 

Read through some of the heartrending stories on here and have some f-ing compassion!!

[postggj]

just like to add

in this day and age, why do we need baliffs

attachment of benefits, earnings etc is avalible

baliffs are no more than parasites with there illegal charges

and cause untold misery to meny

[rambo]

John mc kenna, thank you for your post and for being honest.

I agree that people who can afford to pay thier debts must pay. I also understand the need for bailiffs.

The thing that angers me, and people on this forum is when bailiffs lie and break the law to carry out thier jobs. I would imagine that you hate them as much as we do, they give you, and all the decent bailiffs a bad name.

The problem, from what I can see is that bailiffs work on a commision system which forces them to lie in order to earn a living, until this stops there will always be dodgy bailiffs.

The current TV seris, cars, cops and bailiffs shows what some bailiffs are like, a bailiff from JBW is always saying "I'm from northampton court", a blatant lie.

99% of dealings that I have had with bailiffs has been through ILLEGALLY issued pcn's, whilst I understand that the bailiff can only act on the information a council supplies to them, it fells that I am getting shafted twice over.

The only bailiff I have ever dealt with who has been fair and acted legally, was a court bailiff, but they are employed by the court and are on a set wage(as far as i'm aware).

 

Thanks to sites like this, people are becoming more aware of the law and thier rights, which has to be a good thing.

[Markiemark1]

I think what is easy for us on here to forget - whether dealing with bailiffs or those of us who are bailiffs are that if you're on here you are basically facing up to your financial issues or you are genuinely trying to help those who have been treated illegally or unfairly.

 

Those with unpaid PCNs or warrants etc with nice cars, gated houses and 50" plasma tellies wont generally be on here asking for help.

 

Those from the debt collection or bailiff world who post on here generally arnt the ones acting illegally.

 

There is a need for bailiffs - you would be surprised at how many people do pay when confronted with a bailiff on their doorstep simply because they delay payment until the last possible moment - not because they cannot pay!

 

Sounds like both John and I are here to offer constructive advice and help, so hopefully the personal insults can be put aside.

 

RM

[postggj]

may i ask the question again

in this day and age is there any need for baliffs with attachment of earnings etc

the whole thing seems it belongs to charles dickens

[tonycee]

I sense you may have issues with bailiffs tonycee.

 

I have serious issues with the way this country is going FULL STOP.

Modern day Dick Turpins such as yourselves, are nothing more than legalised extortionists.

 

This goverment is taxing me to death.

I dont need people like you, helping them along.

 

I pay my way, with interest.

My problem with you is, why would anybody want to do this "job" in the first place.?

 

Whats missing from YOUR life.?

 

 

However, I've read your comments several times over now and can't help think your knee jerk reaction is a littlle too personalised. Anyone would think I've addressed you specifically. Not everybody on these forums is driven by the same mindset tonycee. While I accept your emotional response without prejudice, I urge you to think of the wider social issue of responsibility. Folk are far too concerned about upholding their rights than dealing with their responsibilities.

 

You can take my comments however you like.

Personally, or not. I dont care.

I have no problem with speaking my mind, if you dont like the replies you get on an open forum, then you know the answer.

 

I agree that people should deal with their responibilities, they should not have to deal with people like you as well.

 

My previous post has allready been removed by the "management", so i am trying to be careful with my words.

 

I will leave you with this remark.

 

Dont come on here preaching the rights and wrongs of society, and not to expect a reaction.

[Markiemark1]

may i ask the question again

in this day and age is there any need for baliffs with attachment of earnings etc

the whole thing seems it belongs to charles dickens

 

 

and for the self-employed? For those who constantly move jobs in a bid to avoid payment?

[postggj]

point taken

[tonycee]

and for the self-employed? For those who constantly move jobs in a bid to avoid payment?

 

Introduce deductions at source, just as they did with the building trade.

I have been S/E for 18 years.

I have been advocating this for several of those.

It would solve a lot of my issues by weeding out the cowboys in the first place.

Where i work, there is a Brazillian who was earning £2 per day at home.

Give him £80 a day now and he thinks hes in heaven.

I would want £180, for the same days work.

[The Watcher]

I'm sure the National Debtline has genuine grievances about the actions of some bailiffs but they're only complaining about a small minority of cases compared to the amount of warrants paid without complaint.

 

Just because there has not been a complaint DOES NOT mean that the bailiff acted properly (as you assume). You could just as easily argue that people who have been mugged have not been mugged at all - because they handed over the cash !

 

Many people simply don't know how to enforce their rights, and many simply do not know what their legal rights are !

 

There is more than enough evidence from Debtline / CAB etc to show that abuse by bailiffs is far far more that "a tiny sample" as you suggest.

 

They have a financial incentive to LIE, abuse their rights, intimidate etc - largely safe in the knowledge that they "can get away with it".

[John McKenna]

Dear J McK

 

You are obviously a registered saint. A "never done anyone a favour because you never expect one in return sort of person".

On the contrary my dear vecko. I give up my free time on a daily basis to help folk on internet forums. I own my own computer help forum and Moderate on several others. Thinking about it, maybe I am some sort of internet saint! Yes, I like that idea. I now proclaim myself a fully fledged Registered Saint.

 

 

Read through some of the heartrending stories on here and have some f-ing compassion!!

I haven't singled out anybody on this forum. Neither am I ridiculing anyone's plight. Each has there own story to tell and I'm quite capable of affording compassion when a situation warrants it. However, as I've tried explaining to tonycee, my comments above are aimed at the wider issue of social responsibility and not any individual case(s) posted on these forums.

 

 

 

The problem, from what I can see is that bailiffs work on a commision system which forces them to lie in order to earn a living, until this stops there will always be dodgy bailiffs.

Some bailiffs clearly feel they need to lie and cheat to make a living but that's down to the individual's conscience. I work solely on commision and like many of my collegues, don't feel the need to extort money from folk. Bailiffs in the main are paid well if they can actually do the job but must also be flexible enough to see when someone clearly can't pay the full amount. I've dropped all the fees on countless warrants in the past to ensure they get paid. I don't make any money if I do this but I'd much rather get the debt settled if push comes to shove and I'm faced with walking away empty handed.

 

 

There is a need for bailiffs - you would be surprised at how many people do pay when confronted with a bailiff on their doorstep simply because they delay payment until the last possible moment - not because they cannot pay!

Agreed repoman. At least 50% of the warrants I settle on a weekly basis are paid either at the door or over the phone after just one hand delivered letter warning of impending action. I often visit the same people every few months and each time I tell them how to avoid this type of action in the future. Sadly, many ignore my advice and still don't bother to contact the relevant authorities to arrange payment terms they can afford.

 

Sounds like both John and I are here to offer constructive advice and help, so hopefully the personal insults can be put aside.

I doubt the insults will stop RM. All bailiffs are the same as far as some are concerned and I don't blame them for thinking that way if they've been bitten in the past. However, as a bailiff and now Registered Saint, I can categorically confirm that insults are water off a ducks back to me.

 

 

Modern day Dick Turpins such as yourselves, are nothing more than legalised extortionists.

 

This goverment is taxing me to death.

I dont need people like you, helping them along.

 

I pay my way, with interest.

My problem with you is, why would anybody want to do this "job" in the first place.?

 

Whats missing from YOUR life.?

 

I'm sure you have no interest in my reply but I'll reply anyway. Let me start by saying I'm disappointed your opening post was removed. The context of my comments in reply have now been lost as a result.

 

With that said, let me comment on a few of your points.

 

You're quite entitled to feel bailiffs are nothing more than legalised extortionists but I'm afraid they're here to stay in the abscence of a more effective system. In an ideal world people would pay their debts or at least have the common sense to address them. Instead, many choose to ignore them. Granted there are people who find themselves in exceptional circumstances that are unable to deal with the mess they find themselves in but when it comes to general policy, the rules are set out and everyone knows there are consequences for inaction. There's already enough people in this country who couldn't give two hoots about paying there way. For some, a court fine means nothing. The lilly livered liberals in successive governments of ours have ensured there is little punishment for those who continually break the law and reject responsibility for their own actions.

 

If financial penalties or the confiscation of goods are the only way to enforce non payment then so be it. Without this system, nobody would ever pay and that includes the people who pay all their bills on time. Without the threat of enforcement where's the deterent?

 

 

I pay my way, with interest.

My problem with you is, why would anybody want to do this "job" in the first place.?

No tonycee, your problem with me (I suspect) is that I remind of the time you took your eye off the ball and suffered financial consequences. I'm sorry if you've suffered at the hands of bailiffs in the past by whatever means they used but in all likelyhood it wasn't me who you dealt with. I cannot be held responsible for the actions of another just as you aren't to blame for the times my life has been threatened while carring out the Order of the Court.

 

Why am I a bailiff? Who knows. The job found me quite by accident to be honest. The drop out rate for bailiffs is massive in the first few weeks/months but I found I was actually quite good at pursuading people to pay their debts without resorting to threats or intimidation. As such, I make a comfortable living and provide for my family which at the end of the day is what we all do isn't it? You did make me chuckle though by questioning my motives. You reminded me of a chap I once dealt with. While threatening me with a baseball bat he asked "why don't you get a proper job or get some self respect and go on the dole!!" The mindset of some people....

 

Whats missing from YOUR life.?

Nothing tonycee. I'm quite happy with my life. I'm lucky to have a wife and kids who love me and a roof over my head. What's missing from yours?

 

 

You can take my comments however you like.

Personally, or not. I dont care.

I have no problem with speaking my mind, if you dont like the replies you get on an open forum, then you know the answer.

 

I agree that people should deal with their responibilities, they should not have to deal with people like you as well.

 

My previous post has allready been removed by the "management", so i am trying to be careful with my words.

 

I will leave you with this remark.

 

Dont come on here preaching the rights and wrongs of society, and not to expect a reaction.

 

I haven't taken offence at your comments tonycee. You're more than welcome to your opinion. It's just a shame you couldn't respond without resulting to personal insults. As for not coming on here preaching the rights and wrongs of society, I'm afraid, like you, I'll speak my mind if I see fit. I'm long enough in the tooth to handle any reaction they might prompt.

 

AMEN.

[JonCris]

I know Mr Waller is universally hated around these parts but like myself, he's had to deal with the other side of the coin on a regular basis. I know many who post on these forums think that debt recovery should be all sweetness and light but the reality is far from that. I would personally be over the moon if everyone with an outstanding "official" debt responded to letters and actually attempted to settle them. Unfortunately, a "large majority" I deal with suffer from either ostrich mentallity or simply refuse to take responsibility for their own actions and think the world owes them a living.

 

I've been a tax payer all my life and it irritates me no end that "career doleys" who choose state benefits as a life choice have their fines paid by me and eveyone else who pays tax. It annoys me even more that wealthy folk who clearly have the means to pay but choose not to because they think the law doesn't apply to them, constantly get away with it.

 

Referring to the BBC report posted, I'm sure the National Debtline has genuine grievances about the actions of some bailiffs but they're only complaining about a small minority of cases compared to the amount of warrants paid without complaint. Yes, there are plenty of bailiffs out there who break the laws of enforcement but how many debtors willfully avoid paying the debts in the first place and go on to break the law trying to avoid paying them?. Does any of that justify bailiffs commiting criminal offences I've lost count of the amount of clamps I've had cut off cars by debtors willfully trying to avoid paying a debt they've been warned about time and time again. Many don't even try and arrange payment. It's simply "sod you Mr Bailiff and sod the system". These people I type about need zero tolerance as far as I'm concerned. Assuming you have read this site about the disgraceful behaviour of most debt collectors your attitude speaks volumes & merely confirms what most decent people think about debt collectors

 

As for Citizens Advice Bureau claiming...

 

 

Again I question the ACTUAL impact of these statistics. I personally deal with an average of maybe 100 cases per month consisting of mainly HMCS and PCN warrants with a few HMRC thrown in for good measure. I rarely get complaints but I'm certainly guilty of "harassment or intimidation" in many people's eyes. I've had complaints lodged against me because I've "threatened to remove" someone's goods if they don't pay. I've had complaints against be for causing distress while executing DISTRESS WARRANTS and I've had complaints for charging debtors a fee for legally seizing their goods and giving them time to pay when full payment clearly couldn't be made upon initial attendance. But according to you they "can pay but won't" now your saying the can't pay make your mind up

 

I hold my hand on heart when I say I do my job within the boundaries of the law. I have a family to feed, bills to pay Then get a job sweeping the streets and take my career as a bailiff very seriously. I certainly don't condone the actions of the many bailiffs who mislead folk about their powers but this industry is not a level playing field. More often than not this industry is cat and mouse and if the mouse thinks he can get away with avoiding enforcement he'll squeak until his tail is finally chopped off.

 

I welcome further regulation which is why I help folk out on here if I think they've been treated unlawfully but debtors have to take responsibilty themselves and stop whinging when the bailiff comes calling. A small minority aside, the vast majority of debtors know they're in the wrong but refuse to take it on the chin and pay their dues. I'm afraid the "I've not received any letters about this... and the "I can't afford to pay this debt cos my car loan, 52" plasma telly rental is due" just doesn't wash anymore......"52" Plasma" Oh please another myth perperatrated by those who want to make out that most debtors are feckless

 

The buck has to stop somewhere.

 

 

See above in red

[JonCris]

I particularly like the bit "When bailiff turns up at their door they usually pay which proves they have been putting it off". - What rubbish - they feel intimidated & fearful & are handing over the last of their money meaning there will be no food on the table that day

[tonycee]

Nothing tonycee. I'm quite happy with my life. I'm lucky to have a wife and kids who love me and a roof over my head.

 

MASSIVE YAWN...

 

As if anybody actually cares who you are, or what you think.

 

Do us all a favour. Flap your now saintly wings as far away as possible.

[message_to_garcia]

Hi Everyone,

 

Confession time, I am the fool in the BBC Clip and whilst I agree with a number of points made about changes in the law have reached one conclusion. I obeyed the law and foolishly and naively expected others to do the same, they wont, whatever the law it will be abused. The attack on me resulted in my being threatened with arrest ? The police even made me pay an extra £200 for a van in attendance that was not there, the only car was the bailiffs Lexus.

Kind regards

Simon Cousins

[tonycee]

The police even made me pay an extra £200 for a van in attendance that was not there.

 

My whole point exactly.

 

My very last dealing with a "bailiff", and i use "that" description for fear of being cagbotted, was standing on my doorstep arguing over £200 for a van that "might" come over the next 2 weeks.

 

Absolute bloody disgrace..

[chris600uk]

Problem is, we have to have some sort of collection system when people don't or can't pay debts or fines. So logically it's not the existence of the bailiff we should object to, it's the lack of control of bailiffs who act outside the law. That's the fault of government, both central and local and if anyone feels strongly that's who they should be complaining to.

If it became a vote winning/losing issue then you'd soon see action taken, because ultimately it is the voting public who takes away the MP's job if he ****es them off sufficiently.

 

The other problem is the "head in the sand" attitude of many folk, they simply hide away from their problems until it gets out of control. I have only been a member of this site for a very short time, but I can see that a significant proportion of OP's have left it too late to do anything about their problems. Instead of getting advice as soon as they know they can't pay.

Maybe children at school should be taught about their rights as consumers.

 

It doesn't matter why they are in debt, that's not for anyone to judge, each person should be treated with respect.

 

And as for blame, if you're going to blame anyone for bad bailiffs, you should blame the person in charge because he/she is the custodian of the organisations values, be it the bailiff firm, City Council, Political party, Government - that's where the fault lies, that's who is allowing this to happen.

 

If you start complaining directly to those people, persistently, like a tap dripping on stone, eventually you'll get your message through because each email or letter you write has to be read by someone.

 

It's not rocket science, just human nature at work.