BB02 rear lights defective

[NorthernSi]

I was stopped last night by an unmarked "flash" mercedes estate and informed that neither of my rear lights were working and one of my brake lights was out. I was issued an FPN for £30. This morning I decided to check the lights (hand on heart never changed a part). Checked fuses, looked at bulbs and then switched all the lights on for a test. Low and behold all working, so where do I stand with appealing against this FPN ?

 

I was also informed that my driving was reckless (no penalty issued) and signed this form to say that if caught again my vehicle (at the time) would be seized. Again where do I stand to appeal against this ? This does not give me much hope of being the law abiding, tax paying citizen that I am....

 

[Guest wino]

Did you not check your lights last night when you were stopped? I think most people would immediatly check themselves when stopped.

[green_and_mean]

Did it not occur for you to look last night especially since I would assume you had to continue your journey? Usually the PC would walk you to the back of the car to show you. You should really have queried it last night as now it will just be your word against the Police who in the eyes of the court would have little reason to make up the offence. If you do wish to contest it you can elect to go to court instead of paying the FPN.

[emsgeorge]

The other bit of paper you signed is a Section 59 warning. (police reform act).

 

Get caught, or even reported by a member of the public for driving like an idiot, and you will have your car siezed and taken away. You then have to pay to get it back, and storage fees. If you look on any of the boy racer type websites (not that Im accusing you of being one !), they have gone as far as to go to your house, and take the car from your drive !!!!.

 

They usually issue s59 warnings for 'boy racer' type of offences, where you are travelling too fast etc, but they haven't clocked you using approved kit, and so cant ticket you / NIP you for it.

 

Where abouts are you based? The Merc's are only used by Sussex as far as I knew, because the company who convert them are based in Hove. I assume by your name, you are nothern based !.

[Goldlady]

It seems a bit OTT being fined for defective lights:confused:. I know they can, but I was followed all the way home once by a police minibus, up every little winding lane to my house, which was a little unnerving, but when we got here it turned out that all the lights on the back of my car were not working and they had followed me for my own safety. No mention of any offence, but then I was a female with my four kids in the back.

[green_and_mean]

Checked fuses, looked at bulbs and then switched all the lights on for a test. Low and behold all working, so where do I stand with appealing against this FPN ?

 

To be 'innocent' you would have to prove that the lights worked at the time of the offence, not next day after you had fiddled about with the bulbs and fuses!

[emsgeorge]

Dont forget Goldlady, theres always the 'attitude test', which some people will fail when speaking to law enforcement .........

 

And then wonder why they get tickets / fines / court appearances etc etc.

[green_and_mean]

It seems a bit OTT being fined for defective lights:confused:.

 

I doubt if you feel as 'generous' if you had ploughed into the back of the vehicle and injured your kids?

[Sidewinder]

What were you given in relation to the S.59 warning? This is more serious than the FPN for the lights as it will stay with you for the next 12 months. There is little room to appeal as the Act only requires that the Officer had 'reasonable grounds' to suspect that the vehicle was being driven in a manner contrary to S.3 (or S.34) of the RTA 1988. That means that for the next year you will have to drive near perfectly or otherwise risk losing your car (or the vehicle which you are driving at the time)

[adamna]

Dont forget Goldlady, theres always the 'attitude test', which some people will fail when speaking to law enforcement .........

 

And then wonder why they get tickets / fines / court appearances etc etc.

I have attitude and intend to retain it in the face of being needlessly bullied. Not all officers of the law are nice, wouldn't it be great if they had to pass an 'attitude test'?

[NorthernSi]

The trouble I am finding now is that I am constantly watching the speedometer rather than the road now, as I am to worried about being caught again. This has affected my driving ability so I am no longer more aware what is going on around me but what speed I am doing ....!!

 

 

What were you given in relation to the S.59 warning? This is more serious than the FPN for the lights as it will stay with you for the next 12 months. There is little room to appeal as the Act only requires that the Officer had 'reasonable grounds' to suspect that the vehicle was being driven in a manner contrary to S.3 (or S.34) of the RTA 1988. That means that for the next year you will have to drive near perfectly or otherwise risk losing your car (or the vehicle which you are driving at the time)

[NorthernSi]

If you are referring to my attitude on being caught I was not verbal or aggressive, just co-operative..

 

Dont forget Goldlady, theres always the 'attitude test', which some people will fail when speaking to law enforcement .........

 

And then wonder why they get tickets / fines / court appearances etc etc.

[NorthernSi]

I was not given a copy of this form either and it has now affected my driving going forward being too worried about my speed and not being aware of what is going on around me .....

 

What were you given in relation to the S.59 warning? This is more serious than the FPN for the lights as it will stay with you for the next 12 months. There is little room to appeal as the Act only requires that the Officer had 'reasonable grounds' to suspect that the vehicle was being driven in a manner contrary to S.3 (or S.34) of the RTA 1988. That means that for the next year you will have to drive near perfectly or otherwise risk losing your car (or the vehicle which you are driving at the time)

[NorthernSi]

I was not given the opportunity or walked to my car by the police

 

To be 'innocent' you would have to prove that the lights worked at the time of the offence, not next day after you had fiddled about with the bulbs and fuses!

[emsgeorge]

Si, if you were polite etc, then how were you driving !!!!!!!. Dont forget, that to drive an unmarked in most forces (you still have not told us which force it was) you have to be a traffic officer. All traffic cars are fitted with Provida (cctv cameras), and so any bad driving will be caught on camera. The fact you signed S59 paperwork means you have accepted that your driving skills were a little 'below par' on that occasion.

 

As many posters have said, the police generally have better things to be doing with their time, and to have stopped you to issue you with a defective light £30 ticket and S59 warning, there must of been something wrong.

 

If you really feel strongly about it, then ask to speak to the traffic inspector. Many will be happy to investigate it for you, and if you manage to phrase it as ' im not sure what I was doing wrong, how can I improve my driving', then they may let you see the video.

 

Of course, there is the option that the trafic inspector sees the video, and decides theres enough there to prosecute for careless driving / driving without due care and attention / dangerous driving etc..... so be sure if you go down this route !!!!.

[emsgeorge]

I have attitude and intend to retain it in the face of being needlessly bullied. Not all officers of the law are nice, wouldn't it be great if they had to pass an 'attitude test'?

 

Hmmmm....... As in all walks of life, some people dont like authority figures. I dont care much for some police officers. However, I am aware that life can be a lot more difficult if you dont co-operate, and sometimes there is a difference between being all sweet and innocent, and getting a warning for something, and being all arsey, and getting the book thrown at you.

 

Shout at a judge in court, and you will end up in clink. End of. Be all nice and sweet, even if you dont want to be, and you will walk away.

 

Perceptions shouldnt come into it, but reality says different.

[green_and_mean]

I was not given the opportunity or walked to my car by the police

 

So basically what you are saying is you got pulled over by the Police for having no rear lights, didn't bother getting out of the car to look if they did work but instead just accepted a fixed penalty, then carried on home with no lights and the Police let you?

[NorthernSi]

Obviously it was my driving at the time which alerted them to me, the West Sussex outfit. I admit that seeing the vidoe evidence that my skills were below par at that brief moment, but why did they not stop the vehicle in front of me travelling at the same pace ?

 

Should I have not received a copy of the form that I signed though ?

 

 

Si, if you were polite etc, then how were you driving !!!!!!!. Dont forget, that to drive an unmarked in most forces (you still have not told us which force it was) you have to be a traffic officer. All traffic cars are fitted with Provida (cctv cameras), and so any bad driving will be caught on camera. The fact you signed S59 paperwork means you have accepted that your driving skills were a little 'below par' on that occasion.

 

As many posters have said, the police generally have better things to be doing with their time, and to have stopped you to issue you with a defective light £30 ticket and S59 warning, there must of been something wrong.

 

If you really feel strongly about it, then ask to speak to the traffic inspector. Many will be happy to investigate it for you, and if you manage to phrase it as ' im not sure what I was doing wrong, how can I improve my driving', then they may let you see the video.

 

Of course, there is the option that the trafic inspector sees the video, and decides theres enough there to prosecute for careless driving / driving without due care and attention / dangerous driving etc..... so be sure if you go down this route !!!!.

[NorthernSi]

No I pwas pulled over for driving too fast and they also noticed that my rear lights and one brake light was not working. Even though after checking the morning after, they were.

 

So basically what you are saying is you got pulled over by the Police for having no rear lights, didn't bother getting out of the car to look if they did work but instead just accepted a fixed penalty, then carried on home with no lights and the Police let you?

[green_and_mean]

No I pwas pulled over for driving too fast and they also noticed that my rear lights and one brake light was not working. Even though after checking the morning after, they were.

 

You still have not explained why you did not bother checking the lights at the time? Did they not mention that if you carried on you could get stopped again? Didn't you think it a bit dangerous driving home in the dark with no lights?

[Nemeses]

To be 'innocent' you would have to prove that the lights worked at the time of the offence, not next day after you had fiddled about with the bulbs and fuses!

 

Unless I'm very much mistaken and the law has changed on this subject in recent years, the defence to this type of offence is to state 'that the defect ocurred during the course of the journey'.

You do not have to prove that the lights worked at the time of the offence - how can you possibly do that when the very issue of the FPN indicates that the lights were obviously not working at the time of the 'pull'.

 

It is obviously difficult for anyone to prove thay they checked the lights before the commencement of a journey but conversely & more importantly, neither could the police prove that you did not.

 

If you did check the lights before the journey , I believe that it's not too late to avail yourself of the above defence - after all what have you got to lose.

Get the lights fixed asap and present yourself with vehicle for examination at the local nick with a request that the FPN be withdrawn.

Alternatively, visit an MOT station with the defects on the vehicle rectified and request written confirmation of same which you could then present to the police.(The MOT Station would charge a fee for this).

 

The police used to issue 'Vehicle Rectification Forms' for this type of offence as an alernative to FPN's or prosecution. I must add that I'm not certain if that is still the case today.

[NorthernSi]

Like I said, I was allowed to continue my journey even with defective lights, I put my hazard lights on. This I can only assume happened either during the journey or that day, as I would have been flashed at by other drivers the night before.

 

Who in their right mind is going to check that their vehicle is road worthy before every journey, no-one is the right answer.

 

To me and maybe I am biased but this is just cash machine for the police, should they not be protected us and our property which have higher stats rather than the mis-use of roads and vehicles on them.

[green_and_mean]

To me and maybe I am biased but this is just cash machine for the police, should they not be protected us and our property which have higher stats rather than the mis-use of roads and vehicles on them.

 

If I ran you over because my brakes didn't work would you think a vehicle defect was more trivial than having your wallet stolen?

[Sidewinder]

Who in their right mind is going to check that their vehicle is road worthy before every journey, no-one is the right answer

 

That may be the case but alas is no defence for it is the responsibility of the driver to check roadworthiness, so far as is possible (lights indicators, wipers, tyres, brakes etc), before using any vehicle - indeed this is taught as a part of the Highway Code when learning to drive. Your statement here would be an admission that the lights could have been defective for some time and you don't bother to check them.

 

To me and maybe I am biased but this is just cash machine for the police, should they not be protected us and our property which have higher stats rather than the mis-use of roads and vehicles on them.

 

Once again, your opinion may well be shared by others, but is a statement that you consider it OK to break the law, because that particular law is not as important as others. Whatever one's opinion of the police, they have a duty to protect, and as stated above, if your lights were defective then this had a potential to cause harm to yourself and others. Surely that is 'protecting us and our property' for if somebody caused damage or harm to my property through driving recklessly and with inoperative lights, I would be asking why the police car following them had taken no action to prevent it - you would probably feel the same if your pride and joy was written off through somebody else's actions?

 

I admit that seeing the vidoe evidence that my skills were below par at that brief moment

 

A brief moment is often all it takes.

 

A lot of people are supportive of your position and can only go on the facts which you have given. Don't dig holes for yourself to make the actions of the police look less heavy handed than they might have been. The best advice given above seems to be to go and ask to see a Traffic Inspector, explain what happened and ask for some advice in the context of wanting to make sure that you don't find yourself in the same position in the future. Ask for an explanation of what the S.59 means in terms of not risking your car being seized. I believe that it isn't neccessarily a case of speeding, but more a matter of driving dangerously, carelessly or without due care and attention. Watching the speedo that closely might therefore not be as much of an issue as say, driving erratically with five up, wheelspinning, hanging around with boy racers in McDonalds car parks (if that is your thing), or weaving in and out of traffic.

[Guest wino]

I pulled up at some traffic lights next to a van that I had noticed the brake lights were not working on. Being a nice person I thought I would let the male driver know before he got pulled by the police. True story....

 

Me...."Hey mate your brake lights aren't working"

 

Him.." Oh thanks for that which ones aren't working front or back?"

 

It took him a minute to realise what he had said.