Parking ticket, hired car and a international student

[Lockheed]

Being a foreigner, I studied in the UK for my Masters. Last September, after succesfully subbmiting my dissertation, I rented a car from Enterprise and went to Lake District. The other day I went to a sea town of Whiteheaven and parked a car on a parking spot near the harbour. I walked on the shore for 30 minutes, then came back and drove off. After few miles I noticed that there is a transparent and empty ticket envelope behind my wiper. I took it off and threw away.

I came back home and returned the car to the company.

In November, I moved out from my term time address. I left UK and went to my home country within the EU.

 

I came back for the congregation in January, and stayed briefly at my old address. There, I found out the following:

 

In late November 35 pounds dissapeared from my credit card on the account of Enterprise. I figured it must be the parking fee claimed by the parking company from Enterprise. However, I also got mail from Enterprise stating that they forwarded my detail to the parking company. Also, I got a latter from the parking company APCOA wanting me to pay them Ł53.65. I got another letter of almost the same content from Hunter Forrest and then yet another one with "PRE LEGAL NOTIFICATION". All of them were giving me consecutive seven days.

 

Why did Enterprise take 35 pounds from my account (amount of original ticket fee) while parking company/Hunter Forrest still wants me to pay?

The letter from Enterprise says:

“For you convenienve, we have made representation to the relevant council/police forece, who will in terurn re-issue the penalty charge directly to you.

As per the terms and conditions of the rental contract, we have processed the total amount payable of Ł35.00 from your credit card.”

 

 

I’d like to know what I can do in such sitiatuion. Frankly, I have no financial means to pay that. True, I am not a UK citizen and could just leave the country but as I said, I came back here and might stay under my previous address for a month or two. I don’t want my belongings to be confiscated or bank account charged.

Furthermore, I’d like to have an option of coming back to Britain and not having my credit history marked or employement chances forefited by this unpaid parking ticked.

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[Barnsley Boy]

The £35 charged by the hire company is an administration fee for handling paperwork, it is not a payment for the parking charge. Most hire agreements have some small print that fines / charges made to the car will incur such an administration fee. Don't worry about the charge itself, it is from a private company and has no legal status, it is in fact just an invoice. See the "stickies" at the top of the forum for template letters to use to see these people off.

 

If you still have a copy of the agreement it may be worth writing to the hire company requesting the money back because the "fine" is not official but merely a disputed invoice.

[Lockheed]

Thank you. Are there any drafts aviable for requesting the money back from the hire company on grounds of unofficiality of the fine?

 

Also, it seems to me that the sticky templates does not apply to my case. Due to my absence I did not reply to parking company's letter which resulted in receiving letters from Hunter Forrest (I assume it is a debt collector). Hence I cannot write to debt collector claiming that my matter is in dispute.

Can I just ignore those and forthcoming letters?

[green_and_mean]

Thank you. Are there any drafts aviable for requesting the money back from the hire company on grounds of unofficiality of the fine?

 

Who says the fine is unofficial and not valid....you presumably not APCOA or Enterprise. The only way you could get the £35 back is by proving that the fine was not legal, something that ignoring the PPCs letters will not do. If you went to Court and won against the PPC you would have a better chance of reclaiming the £35.

[Barnsley Boy]

G&M,

 

The "fine" is from a private company. Individuals and companies do not have not the right to fine people - this is trite law. If the hire agreement talks about "fines" then the matter should be simple. If the hire agreement mentions "charges" then this is problematic and the OP has probably said goodbye to his £35.

[green_and_mean]

G&M,

 

The "fine" is from a private company. Individuals and companies do not have not the right to fine people - this is trite law. If the hire agreement talks about "fines" then the matter should be simple. If the hire agreement mentions "charges" then this is problematic and the OP has probably said goodbye to his £35.

 

It is highly unlikely that the T&C would use the word fines alone since this would make the hire co. liable for all Council penalty charge notices as Councils cannot fine you for parking either!

[Lockheed]

Right, so most likely won't see my 35 pounds anymore.

What about my second question about ignoring the letters?

[Guest interesting]

The parking company may file a claim online, if you are not in the country to receive it then you cannot respond.

 

A judgement by default will be given .. if you return back to the UK you may put your previous address, it will show the CCJ.

 

You can apply to the court for it to be set aside (cost £75) - then a hearing be granted.

 

But if they are only asking for £53 - if really worth the trouble, if you know you were in the wrong - pay up this little amount and get it over with ..

 

As for ignoring letters, you are obviously an clever person - surely you know the answer to that without asking ???

 

Life really is too short ...

[legaladviser]

Interesting has by his own admission a financial interest in a private parking company. Ignore anything he advises because he is clearly biased and self-serving. There have been very, very few cases filed by parking companies and even less won when a proper defence is put forward.

[green_and_mean]

Interesting has by his own admission a financial interest in a private parking company. Ignore anything he advises because he is clearly biased and self-serving.

 

Put your money where your mouth is why not promise to pay any costs the OP may incur from ignoring all the letters from the PPC! It is very easy to advise on a gamble when its not your money at stake.

[adamna]

The standard agreement with Enterprise rent-a-car states:

"I acknowledge that for the period of rental I shall be liable as the owner of the vehicle for any fixed penalty offence committed with respect to the vehicle or any penalty charge notice, any excess charge or penalty charge for parking or bus lane contraventions which may be incurred and any charges and penalty charges incurred under a road user changing scheme. References to the legislation under which this statement of liability is made are set out in paragraph 3 on page 2 of this agreement.

By signing below I agree to the terms and conditions on pages 1 to 4 and authorise you to obtain payment of all amounts due under this rental agreement by debiting the credit or debit card presented for security at the time of rental"

 

The references they refer to are individually quoting some Road Traffic Act/Regulation/Order etc. The only one that doesn't states:

"Any other penalty charge or fine under any road traffic order in effect in any jurisdiction where the vehicle is driven."

 

That doesn't seem to cover an invoice for a private car park to me.

[Barnsley Boy]

The standard agreement with Enterprise rent-a-car states:

"I acknowledge that for the period of rental I shall be liable as the owner of the vehicle for any fixed penalty offence committed with respect to the vehicle or any penalty charge notice, any excess charge or penalty charge for parking or bus lane contraventions which may be incurred and any charges and penalty charges incurred under a road user changing scheme. References to the legislation under which this statement of liability is made are set out in paragraph 3 on page 2 of this agreement.

By signing below I agree to the terms and conditions on pages 1 to 4 and authorise you to obtain payment of all amounts due under this rental agreement by debiting the credit or debit card presented for security at the time of rental"

 

The references they refer to are individually quoting some Road Traffic Act/Regulation/Order etc. The only one that doesn't states:

"Any other penalty charge or fine under any road traffic order in effect in any jurisdiction where the vehicle is driven."

 

That doesn't seem to cover an invoice for a private car park to me.

 

Great research!

 

This section of the agreement does only seem to cover statute and is silent on the issue of contract or tort. I think the OP would have a very good case for claiming back any charges made to the card under this section.

 

I still think however, that the charge has been made for admin rather than the parking invoice itself. Is there a section that covers exactly when the hire company can recharge admin costs?

[adamna]

The letter from Enterprise says:

“For you convenienve, we have made representation to the relevant council/police forece, who will in terurn re-issue the penalty charge directly to you.

As per the terms and conditions of the rental contract, we have processed the total amount payable of Ł35.00 from your credit card.”

Yes it does look like an admin fee, and of course there is a section on the agreement that says they can do that:

"A reasonable administration fee for processing any fines or offences against the vehicle, you or us during the rental period..."

 

It is probably a coincidence that it is the same amount as the 'fine'. I’m not sure how Lockheed knows the amount of the fine as they said the first letter from APCOA demanded £53.65, perhaps it was detailed there.

 

Now, was it a fine or offence? They did process it by forwarding the hirer's details, but you could challenge that that was a reasonable fee, and/or that they should have recognised (as professionals in the arena) that it was not a legal fine, (and it was not a council/police force) but this would have put them in a difficult position, and possibly cost the customer more in 'administration' charges for arguing it on their behalf and fielding the junk mail.

 

Perhaps a letter to Enterprise (legal dept.) asking them if they are aware that these applications are not fines, and not covered by the agreement, and ask them what their policy is in regard to them. Any Joe Blogs could apply to them for a payment. Then request a refund, your only problem at the moment is recovering your £35 from Enterprise. Aside from that it seems you can ignore the stuff from APCOA and their dogs.

 

I agree with interesting that "Life really is too short ...", why can't they get to grips with that and stop bothering us? In the meantime we will fight them on the beaches.... (see original post )

[Barnsley Boy]

It is not a fine or an offence. Both of which would mean breaking of some statute or other. This is not the case here, the hire company have acted outside their agreement. It would be worth writing to the hire company again. It would also be worth writing to the credit card company pointing out the error and asking for the money to be recharged.

 

Regarding the Parking Charge itself, read the forum and make up your own mind. I can tell you from my experience of PPCs that they give up pretty quickly once it has got through to them that there is no way you are going to pay their "fine". Now that the Debt Collector is involved, I would write to them denying the debt and instruct them to refer it back to the PPC. The fact that you did not write to the PPC before does not prevent you doing this.

[Lockheed]

I thank you all for your advices.

Seems, I could have a case writing to Enterprise about my 35 quids but what would I write in the letter? Are there templates for such particular situation?

Also, should I write to the local office where I rented the car or to the HQ?

[adamna]

HQ as it's a question of principle/policy that the local office probably can't answer without asking HQ themselves.

[Barnsley Boy]

Suggested letter to Credit Card Company

 

[YOUR ADDRESS]

[YOUR PHONE NUMBER]

Dear [iNSERT NAME]

Account: [iNSERT YOUR ACCOUNT NUMBER]

I wish to dispute the charge made on my account on [iNSERT

DATE] by [iNSERT COMPANY NAME AS ON YOUR STATEMENT].

The payment was made for "administration charges".

The reason I wish to be reimbursed is that there is no agreed basis for such a charge. The above company claims to have made this charge in accordance with the hire agreement, which states:

 

"A reasonable administration fee for processing any fines or offences against the vehicle, you or us during the rental period..."

 

The above clearly refers to statutory violations whereas the attached is merely a private parking charge notice having no official status whatsoever. By no stretch of the imagination could it be refered to as being a "fine" or an "offence".

 

I kindly request that you apply a refund to my account and

that you inform me by writing of your decision.

Yours faithfully

 

 

[YOUR NAME]

[Lockheed]

Thanks a lot Barnsley Boy and others.

I went to MasterCard's website and read:

"Cardholders should contact their issuing bank for help and assistance."

Furthermore, there is not one address stated where I could send my letter of complaint. So, should I write to the bank or to MasterCard?

 

Also, I got a bit confused on who should I ask for a refund after all. Should it be the hire company or Mastercard/Bank?

[adamna]

You could try both. The address for the issuing bank will be on your statement.

 

If you have a query they ask you to contact them within 60 days from the date of the item shown on your statement, well mine do anyway.

[Lockheed]

When I'm sending the letter to the bank or hire company, should I attach a copy of the ticket or letter from Enterprise?

[adamna]

Barnsley Boy has suggested that you enclose a copy of the ticket (which you said you don't have - maybe they sent you a copy) any reference you have would be useful. You may want to include a copy of the terms and conditions as well. I would include as much as is technically relevant as you want to be taken seriously, they cannot refund you just because you ask them to can they?

Out of courtesy if nothing else, I would copy it to Enterprise so that they are aware of your position.

[Lockheed]

The problem is I don't have a copy of Enterprise term and conditions. Can anyone send me a scanned copy to pctempers (at) gmail (dot) com?

[adamna]

Will do, but it is printed in grey on pink and white...

[Lockheed]

Thank you. By the way, on my credit card statement Natwest gives an address for corespondence regarding credit cards. It is a PO Box in Southend-on-Sea. Should I sent it there or is it some dubious PO Box for stalling claims?

[adamna]

Sent, make it bigger and you can read them ok.