Barclays Business - is this a new tactic?

[danny_kiernan]

Hi All,

 

I have just put in my claim for unfair charges on my business account, this is the second claim I have put in, within 2 years as they have taken over £1,200 off me in last few months. They refunded the full amount last time btw - £870.

 

Anyway they sent a reply letter, which had a leaflet on waivers on itand in their letter it said -

 

Please refer to the enclosed leaflet, which provides you with a more detailed explanation on how we will deal with this matter.

 

That sounds like a fob to me, so I have replied with this letter today:

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Thank you for your recent reply.

However, the leaflet referred to – within your letter has absolutely no bearing on my account, as it is a business account and the case referred to is primarily based on the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

Within the UTCCR 1999 it clearly states the following:

"consumer" means any natural person who, in contracts covered by these Regulations, is

acting for purposes which are outside his trade, business or profession;

Also:

Terms to which these Regulations apply

4. - (1) These Regulations apply in relation to unfair terms in contracts concluded between a

seller or a supplier and a consumer.

The FSA has also expressly stated that the waiver does not include business accounts, within their 2 month Review in November 2007. A copy of the document can be found here: http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/other/two_month_review.pdf

The relevant section is as follows:

17. The waiver does not include small business current accounts, because its scope is

aligned with that of the OFT’s wider investigation which relates to personal current

accounts. Firms have agreed to put arrangements in place to ensure that small

business customers, including those who thought they were covered by the waiver,4

are not disadvantaged.

I will still be staying to the timescale that I put forth.

I don't know if my letter above will help anyone if you receive a similir response from barclays business, but I thought I would post it up.

 

Dani

[slick132]

Hi Danny,

 

Whether Barclays agrees with you or not, the problem you'll next have is the Court Staying your case automatically.

 

We've a few on the go at the moment here where the Barclays claimants are trying to get the Court to unStay their cases.

 

Definately stick to your timescale.

 

Slick

[danny_kiernan]

Hi Slick,

 

Thanks for the advice, I intend to make the court fully aware of the details I put down in the letter I sent, if it comes to that. Last time barclays caved before court.

I am currently taking on 3 others at the same time for charges:

Aqua - £116.00

Vanquis - £124.00

Barclaycard (2nd time around too) - £468.00

 

Dani

[danny_kiernan]

Whoah,

 

I have received a termination notice as I refused their paltry £600.00 and sent in an LBA - off to court then

[danny_kiernan]

Hi All, heres my letter to the branch manager and copied to head office:

 

04/02/2008

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

I am writing to you directly, to put my complaints officially in writing as recommended by the FOS and the FSA.

A copy of this complaint and attached documents is also being forwarded to Barclays Head Office and the Financial Services Authority at this time.

I am referring it for your attention, as it partly involves your Branch Business Manager XXXXXX XXX XXXX.

As there are so many issues involved regarding this complaint, I will outline each briefly first:

• Return of bank charges (I am dealing with this separately, however it has a bearing).
  
• Missold Business Loan.
  
• Termination of account whilst in dispute.
  
• Amalgamation of business accounts into a personal account to bypass FSA guidelines.
  
• Perceived retaliation by Barclays, to the reclamation of charges, this refers to both 3 & 4.

In September 2007, I entered into a dialogue with my business manager XXX XXXXXXX, regarding the large amount of bank charges I had received during 2007.

I was advised that she would ‘start the ball rolling’ to reclaim those charges and she guaranteed I would get those charges back. She then went on to advise me to take out a restructuring loan to cover the already accrued charges and the charges due. She even stated ‘As soon as the charges were returned, she would personally make sure the loan was repaid in full’. I am saying this verbatim as exactly what she said at the time.

I only discovered recently, when talking to staff at your complaints department, that this is misselling a loan as issue 2).

The months passed and no correspondence was received, by myself regarding refunds of bank charges.

In early January, I decided to take matters further, by writing to XXX XXXXX and also Head Office.

I received an erroneous reply from Barclays customer relations, stating details about the waiver, which is only in place for personal account customers. I advised them of this and the relevant details in the FSA review. I swiftly received a response, with an offer – which was unacceptable. I had reclaimed £1,280.00 (The charges are now nearly £1,500.00 including statutory interest). I advised the department, that the settlement was not acceptable and I would be pursuing it legally.

I then sent off a Letter Before Action on 24/01/2008 and communicated with the customer relations team by phone also. Whilst I explained my circumstances to them and the business – I was advised that the loan was missold, so they would send the complaint regarding the loan higher as well as continuing to investigate the charges.

On 29/01/2008 I received 3 letters from XXXXX XXXXXX – these are as Follows:

• A Default Notice on the Business Loan.
  
• A Termination of my accounts notice.
  
• A proposal (seems more like a threat) to amalgamate business accounts into my personal account.

Now I can firstly only see this as retaliation, I rang up customer services again and complained yet again.

I have now spoken to the FSA and their representative has voiced the opinion that your business managers actions are in a direct attempt to avoid having to pay the charges back, also an attempt at retaliation which they frown upon, plus to detract from the missold loan.

The reasons for this (In my opinion, as FSA will not state their reasons categorically) are:

1. By moving the business accounts onto my personal account, means my account comes under the FSA waiver – which it wouldn’t as business accounts.

2. The actions taken are a direct attempt at retaliation –termination of account and a default notice.

In addition to this, I was advised to contact the FOS (Financial Ombudsman Service), which I have done and Barclays should be receiving the details of my formal complaint with them, shortly.

Now as to my personal account – you seek to amalgamate with my business account, I receive my tax credits through this account, I have advised HMRC about this and they would provisionally be quite happy to help me in prosecuting Barclays Bank PLC for severe hardship if any of the business accounts are put on my personal account.

I am still adhering to my charges deadline, and will be filing at county court in 7 days for the charges, I will also be looking for any stays to be removed under the hardship grounds and also the grounds that the UTCCR has nothing to do with business accounts.

I will also be reporting Barclays to Nottinghamshire Trading Standards as well as the Office of Fair Trading shortly as I believe you have crossed the line, totally and utterly.

I would like a reply to this letter ASAP, but for the charges I have set specific deadlines. The other matters I will leave with the ombudsman until they are resolved.

[danny_kiernan]

Please let me know your views on the above letter, and the HMRC are involved and they will 'take no prisoners'

[danny_kiernan]

Barclays really picked the wrong customer to have a fight with, plus the inland revenue will screw them

[slick132]

Hi Danny,

 

The letter to Barclays is fine - a bit long but gives the detail nec'y for complaint to FSA.

 

Was your a/c outside agreed limits when the Closure Notice was issued.

 

Was the same woman (Branch Bus's Mgr) involved with the closure.

 

Have you got a parachute a/c ready.

[slick132]

Danny,

 

Complaint should be to FOS - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/106950-what-do-if-your.html

[danny_kiernan]

Hi slick,

 

My account was £972 overdrawn - £472 in unauthorised overdraft as barclays allows a £500 buffer zone on business accounts, rather than the £50 on personal accounts.

 

My personal account has always been in credit.

 

I already put a complaint into FOS, they advised me to put a complaint in writing, rather than over the phone to barclays, which is why I wrote the long-winded letter above

 

FOS have also sent out an official complaint to barclays head office, regarding all issues except the charges as I have already started that.

 

The chap at FOS said that barclays have 8 weeks to deal with this, with me before they will step in, so they will step in, in march if it is not resolved.

 

The Inland Revenue were very helpful I told them about the amalgamation of accounts and the problems it will cause with child tax credits/ working tax credits. They have seen this happen before and have warned the banks about it according to the advisor I spoke to. Their stance is - if barclays amalgamate the accounts onto my personal account, thereby depriving me and my family of tax credits - they will take action against barclays. So roll on 15th February - when barclays have stated the accounts will be merged.

 

I do have parachute accounts too, for business and personal.

 

I have a question though, can I charge barclays for loss of business as a result of a bounced direct debit to my phone company, due to their charges?

 

Danny

[danny_kiernan]

Yes it was the same woman btw

[slick132]

Danny,

 

" I have a question though, can I charge barclays for loss of business as a result of a bounced direct debit to my phone company, due to their charges? "

 

I think the chances of you proving satisfactorily that you suffered consequential losses due to their charges causing the bouncing of a DD are zero.

 

Perhaps others may think differently.

[danny_kiernan]

Fair enough - I just wondered if anyone else had done that

[slick132]

I've certainly not heard of it.

 

It would be difficult to prove:-

 

1) the amount of work you lost

 

2) that any amount so lost was attributable to Bank - I would think it was the phone Co's decision to limit your service and therefore between you and the phone Co.

 

I'd concentrate on the main claim.

[danny_kiernan]

Which one slick - the charges, missold loan, termination or amalgamation?

or all 4?

 

I really appreciate the help btw, I am a fish out of water here

[slick132]

I mean stick to the points that you know you can win - ie bank chgs and not consequential loss.

 

What do you intend to do re Missold Loan, termination of a/c and amalgamation.

[danny_kiernan]

I'll leave those to the FOS and Inland Revenue.

 

The FOS will get involved in March and the Inland Revenue on 15th February - should the accounts be amalgamated.

 

If there is no resolution after their involvement, then I will take Barclays to court

[slick132]

So do you intend to issue Court Proceedings after LBA time expires re the chgs reclaim?

[danny_kiernan]

Yes slick, filing for charges in less than a week - keeping it seperate to other matters, partly because I do not want to muddy the waters with a judge - and also so that I can keep track myself

[slick132]

Tactics sound good.

 

Gnite:cool:

[danny_kiernan]

Thanks slick

 

I hope I didn't go too overboard, setting the inland revenue on barclays as well as FOS and FSA. I only rang them up to find out how to change my tax credits account, then they told me about the banks being warned about it etc...

 

Nitey nites anyway, and thanks for being helpful

[slick132]

If HMRC want to have a go at Barclays too, that's up to them.

 

Keep it as simple and straightforward as you can - easier said than done when Barclays try and pull the rug from under you.;-)

[danny_kiernan]

Hi All,

 

Just had a chat with the area manager as he sent me a letter to give him a call, I was a bit tongue tied - but stuck to my guns, now I have a face to face meeting scheduled for next wednesday eek.

 

He hasn't had the FOS complaints or my last letter passed through to him yet, plus didn't have my details to hand - which is why the face to face.

 

He kept stating the loan was not missold as it was to cover my overdraft and other charges being added, but I suppose he would. I kept saying it was missold and quoting what my business manager said at the time.

 

Has anyone got any helpful links to missold loans topics, I think I am going to need some more ammunition.

[slick132]

I'm not aware of any threads or forum for this topic - try a "search" on the forums.

[papadak]

I am having trouble with a DSAR request from Barclays. Never had any bother with 2 separate previous requests. Is there now special wording other than the standard template for DSAR's?