Wife issued with a PCN while collecting children and loading

[Mr Macintosh]

My wife had been issued with a PCN on 4/12/07 while she was collecting the kids from their school and also loading their musical instruments into the car for their private lessons as they also play in their school's music group. Children need help to carry the instruments and also school will not allow them to leave except when handed over to an appropriate adult as they are only 7 yrs old. She was issued with a PCN within 2 minutes. Contravention code is 01 as she parked on a single yellow line within a close proximity of the school. Her first appeal rejected and I am now served with a notice to owner. i will challenge them (L B of Enfield - NCP).

Your comments will be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[patdavies]

You will need to check where she stopped to see if loading is permitted at the time the PCN was issued.

 

Contrary to the belief of many Councils, loading does not need either a commercial vehicle nor invoices/delivery notes.

[green_and_mean]

You will need to check where she stopped to see if loading is permitted at the time the PCN was issued.

 

Contrary to the belief of many Councils, loading does not need either a commercial vehicle nor invoices/delivery notes.

 

If it was not permitted it would have been an '02' not an '01'

[Mr Macintosh]

There is no restriction for loading and unloading. It a single yellow line with no kerb marks. Contravention code is 01.

[patdavies]

Then her defence is that the contravention did not occur, because she was loading at the time.

[patdavies]

If it was not permitted it would have been an '02' not an '01'

 

Thank you.

 

You are, of course, absolutely right and I should have realised that.

[Mr Macintosh]

Many thanks for your comments. I'll write a letter to challange their initial decision and will post the outcome.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Sounds to me as if boarding and alighting was also involved.

This is permitted even when loading is not.

[Mr Macintosh]

I'm not really sure whether or not collecting kids from their school mentioned anywhere in the law when school will not allow them to leave except when handed over to an appropriate adult.

[green_and_mean]

Sounds to me as if boarding and alighting was also involved.

This is permitted even when loading is not.

 

The vehicle is not meant to be left unattended for dropping off/picking up passengers. There is some leeway for disabled and young children but only from adjacent property I think.

[green_and_mean]

I'm not really sure whether or not collecting kids from their school mentioned anywhere in the law when school will not allow them to leave except when handed over to an appropriate adult.

 

Without sounding rude picking up kids from school does not exempt you from the law. Unless disabled there is nothing to prevent you from parking legally and walking to the school.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

The vehicle is not meant to be left unattended for dropping off/picking up passengers. There is some leeway for disabled and young children but only from adjacent property I think.

 

And isn't that what is going on here? Besides, there's also the loading going on!

[Chesterexpress]

Yet another case of inconsiderate and lazy parents. These children are 7yrs old and have legs, let them make use of them.

[patdavies]

The vehicle is not meant to be left unattended for dropping off/picking up passengers. There is some leeway for disabled and young children but only from adjacent property I think.

 

I think that BtB has unintentionally diverted attention here.

 

The major point is that the OP's wife was loading (musical instruments that the kids can't carry for themselves. This does not require the vehicle to be attended.

 

Alighting is a red herring.

[Mr Macintosh]

Yet another case of inconsiderate and lazy parents. These children are 7yrs old and have legs, let them make use of them.

 

I think this a bit judgemental approach if not constractive. The car is being used for this purpose only once a week and there is a valid reason for that. Musical instruments need to be collected on every Tuesday, and also legally speaking children will not be let to leave the school on their own because of their age (Child Protection Act).

 

And, Fortunately this country is still being ruled by law & order not by parking attendants and their managers and, I believe existince of this forum/actiongroup linkes itself to this fact.

 

Thanks

[demon_x_slash]

Yet another case of inconsiderate and lazy parents. These children are 7yrs old and have legs, let them make use of them.

 

Aaaand... now we have Chester's inevitable and useless sarcasm as well. Sigh. D'you know how much musical instruments cost? and how heavy and awkward the larger ones can be? A seven year old would find it difficult to carry a guitar or a cello, and even the smaller ones get bumped about in the cases. What's wrong with loading musical equipment into your car in a valid loading zone? It has nothing to do with 'laziness', and the ticket seems to have been issued by an operative who doesn't understand what 'loading' means.

[Mr Macintosh]

A violin and a cello.

[green_and_mean]

The grounds for refusal of appeal would help!

[demon_x_slash]

I think you need to scan the PCN, remove all identifying details, and then post it here, along with any other correspondance you've received about appeals - then people can work out what stage you're at and how to proceed. Have you been back and double-checked the restrictions on the road? It would help your appeal if you took pictures of the area, or applied for the traffic regulation order on that road, to prove that loading is allowed, and then stated that you were loading musical equipment on the day in question.

[Mr Macintosh]

I was away for a couple day just managed to reply.

 

I will write to them tomorrow to make my representation on the basis of "contravention did not occur". Any useful info would make my case stronger.

 

Thanks

 

 

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/6117/pcn002xs5.th.png

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6268/pcn001zy7.th.png

[Mr Macintosh]

I think these are better

 

ImageShack - Hosting :: pcn002kj8.jpg

ImageShack - Hosting :: pcn001bm7.jpg

[pin1onu]

It's my understanding that the amount of the Penalty Charge has to appear on the PCN above the tear off strip for it to be valid.

 

Can you put a scan of the back of the PCN up as well so that it can be checked?

 

Also I think they may have the two date rule wrong. I think the notice must contain the correct wording which is Date of Issue: and

Date of Contravention.

 

Could be another nail in their coffin. Can someone please comment on the above.

[patdavies]

Dates are fine on the PCN,

 

However pin1onu is absolutely correct about the amount of fine having to appear on the PCN. The tear-off slip does not form part of the PCN.

 

RTA 1991 S.66

 

(3) A penalty charge notice must state—

(a) the grounds on which the parking attendant believes that a penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;

(b) the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;

© that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

(d) that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;

(e) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, a notice to owner may be served by the London authority on the person appearing to them to be the owner of the vehicle;

(f) the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be sent.

 

Unless the specific amount is written on the back of the PCN, then it is void. The Council will not admit this; you will have to take it to the adjudicator.

 

As to the letter, it specifically does not rebut your assertion that your wife was loading at the time. Again, a matter for the adjudicator.

[Mr Macintosh]

It contains HOW TO PAY and HOW TO CHALLENGE details on the back of the PCN. There isn't any other information stated.

[pin1onu]

It contains HOW TO PAY and HOW TO CHALLENGE details on the back of the PCN. There isn't any other information stated.

 

Then you have definite grounds for an appeal to the adjudicator. The PCN is invalid under RTA 1991 S66 3b. Stick it to them.