FirstPlus

[Goldlady]

Taiko I think you have enough to show that the repossession should not go ahead. I am up to my eyes in tax returns at the moment, so am struggling for time. Did you actually try and reclaim the PPI from Firstplus? You need to do that if you haven't, and if you can show the court that this amount is in dispute, and that you are prepared to pay the genuine amount of the arrears then hopefully you will get a sympathetic ear.

 

I still have the calculations I did. If you need me to help further send me a PM as my subscriptions list is rather full at the moment.

[vodkaanddietcoke]

Hi - I'm looking at reclaiming the PPI sold on a loan we took out with First Plus in 2001 (£40,000). Usual reasons, did not know there was a choice and at no point were we advised that it was only covering 5 years of the loan etc. Does the fact that the loan was taken out so long ago cause any problems with the claim? Really don't have a clue where to start so all help really appreciated. (would have posted as a new post rather than a response but can't seem to work out where/how I do it - told you I was clueless!)

[Ell-enn]

Taiko, affixed is the budget sheet I told you about. The amount your son is offering to pay in addition to the normal monthly payment should be the amount left over after everything else (including the normal mortgage payment) has been paid. When you know what the figure is let me know and I'll start drafting the defence statement.

 

Ell-enn

[taiko]

Hello Ell-enn

 

Thanks for the reply. Cannot find budget sheet, does not appear to be attched. Is this me being stupid again?

 

Kind regards

 

Taiko

[Ell-enn]

Sorry, having trouble attaching it: here's a link to where I posted it on another thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5813&d=1233417391

[Goldlady]

I will attach a copy of the spreadsheet to my next post - hopefully.

 

The way I have worked it out the total outstanding balance at Nov 07 was £62577 including the PPI. If you disregard the PPI and the refunds made each time the loan was increased and treat the payments as being for the loan only then the outstanding balance should only be £43087, against an original amount borrowed of £53100. The amount he has actually paid for the PPI is £4601.64 which should be refunded to the loan account.

[Goldlady]

Er - seem not to be able to do it - the 'go advanced' bit doesn't seem to have the 'attach file' any more.

[Goldlady]

Well that didn't work -tried to cut and paste the spreadsheet

Edited February 1, 2009 by Goldlady
!!!!!!

[incipience]

This company makes me have more contempt for them every day.

[Rooster-UK]

I will report the attachment problem to Admin.

[taiko]

Dear all

 

My son has used the Budget sheet Ell-enn sent and before he makes any drastic economies he can only offer say £50 per month to pay off the arrears of over £9000.00.He would also not be able to restart paying the £684.00 loan repayment unless I paid it on his behalf.I could do this for several years say but it looks likely that he would be back to square one if I stopped.

 

Goldlady has worked out that if the PPI were taken off the amount outstanding then my son's indebtedness would be £43,000 (approx). If I made an offer to raise this money (it is possible as I own my own property outright) do you think that the judge would not order the repossession until I could see if I can arrange this?

 

I know my son has acted stupidly in getting into so much debt but I think the irresponsible lending by FP has not helped.

 

There are several other matters that have a bearing on this that I would appreciate your opinion on. Namely, that there is only one legal charge made by FP in 2004 on his house. That appears to be for £33k. If that loan was paid off (by a further advance in 2006) should that charge not be registered as satisfied and new charge (for the new total £55k) be put on at the time the new loan was made?How can I find out if the original charge was a floating one?

 

Kind regards

 

Taiko

[Goldlady]

Hi again Taiko. Have just been chatting with the OH about your Land Registry question. He thinks that if they have not updated the original charge then they only have a charge for £33k and that the remaining borrowing is unsecured. I have no idea how we would find this out before the hearing. I have just sent a text to someone who might know. BRB hopefully

[Ell-enn]

Hi Taiko, if I'm right in thinking that your hearing on Wednesday is for possession, then you are going to have to come up with a repayment plan otherwise the judge will have no option but to award possession. He can only consider the repossession claim and cannot change any contractual terms of the mortgage.

 

You say you would be able to pay the monthly installment for your son? If this is the case you would need to write a statement saying so and providing details of how you are able to do it.

 

Failing that, only full payment of the arrears will stop possession being granted.

 

Any other issues with the lender will have to be addressed after possession has been suspended.

 

I can write you a statement to take to court, but you will have to tell me how you want to proceed.

 

Ell-enn

[taiko]

Dear Goldlady

 

I have already contacted the local Land Registry office this morning.They have confirmed that there were 2 charges put on to the house,one in 2003 by Bank of Scotland and one in 2004 by Firstplus. They have not got access to the exact documents involved ie was it a fixed charge or a floating charge. These are held in their archives in the Midlands and we would need to write in for copies. If the charge is a fixed charge then I agree that the difference between it and the amount FP are claiming is unsecured and that their Possession action is therefore unlawful. Still feeling held over a barrel by these unspeakable people. If I can find a way of averting the judge finding in their favour then I will do so.I am open to hearing any advice you feel able to offer. If I am able to halt these current proceedings then I will be after FP to check on their mis-selling of PPI and the possibility that they have given a secret commission to Norton. I am also suspicious of the tape I obtained under the SAR I sent.

 

Still clinging to hope of being able to survive this

 

Taiko

[taiko]

Dear Ell-enn

 

Thanks for your reply.I am desperate to halt this possession from being granted to FP until I have investigated all the options thoroughly. Reading your post I appear to have 2 options:-

 

1) Personnally settle arrears and then continue paying the £684 per month on my sons behalf until we can sort out all the other issues we have with FP.Arranging this would need financing against my home and may take a few weeks to arrange. Also would I run the risk of being pursued by FP if I stopped paying in a few months time?

 

2) I could personally undertake responsibility for the £684 payment and say £70.0 per month off the arrears over the remaining life of the mortgage. My problem then is what happens if I die in the meantime( I am quite old and may not last 12 years)

 

Also would like your opinion on"mitigating circumstances". Namely my son's wife is disabled and currently waing to go into hospital for treatment. Also my grandson has OCD and is likewise considered to be vulnerable. Do you believe that the judge may take these factors into account?

 

Hope this makes sense to you.Please be assured I am not trying to avoid responsibility merely to make sure that my son is not "ripped off"further by FP.

If they have my money and I find that they have acted unfairly then I feel sure that I will have to sue them to get it back.

 

Taiko

[Ell-enn]

Taiko, I'm afraid I'm going to have to be blunt here (sorry).... you cannot go into court on Wednesday and say to the judge that you have several issues with FP but no concrete plans to pay the arrears. Any mitigating circumstances such as the health of your daughter in law and grandson would only be of help if they were offered in addition to a payment proposal.

 

No matter what the various issues are with FP the fact remains that no payments have been made towards the mortgage nor any payment proposal offered and therefore in the judge's eyes FP are entitled to bring a claim for possession.

 

At the end of the day the judge is there to consider whether the arrears can or cannot be paid - based on the evidence he is given he has only two choices - repossess or suspend repossession subject to the arrears being paid.

 

Ell-enn

[taiko]

Ell-enn

 

Thanks for prompt response and being blunt (no offence taken). I obviously did not make myself sufficiently clear in my last post. It was my intention to offer either (1) or (2) of the options I outlined in my post to the judge as a concrete proposal to address the arrears situation. Namely, I will pay off the £9k arrears and then start to pay £684 per month. Or I will commence to pay back the mortgage ie £684 per month plus £70 per month towards reducing the arrears for the remaining 12 years of the mortgage term. Can you write a statement to assist in putting forward either of these offers?

 

Also if you were proposing either of them (bearing in mind you appear to have more experience of other cases similar to my son's,which I do not) which of the two proposals I can make stands most chance of being accepted? Do you have an opinion?(I realise that the final decision on which to propose rests with my son and I and that he stands or falls by what we decide to do).It is also not my intention to ask another person to make that decision on his behalf, only,if possible, to tap into what has been successful in the past.I do understand that I must make a positive proposal to the judge to address the situation but I am still wary of pouring my life savings into the hands of these people if they still push for repossession and repayment of the whole amount.

 

I hope I have made things a little clearer?

 

Kind regards

 

Taiko

[Ell-enn]

Hi Taiko - in truth, the easiest way to stop repossession is to pay the arrears outright. You would need to do that tomorrow - by payment over the telephone - in order to stop the hearing altogether. So obviously this would be the preferred option if it were possible.

 

However, if you were to take a bankers draft to court with you and advise the judge that it would be posted by special delivery to the lender that day then you would likely get a suspended possession order subject to the draft being received and applied to the account.

 

Once you had confirmation from FP in writing that the arrears had been cleared you could then apply to the court for cancellation of the suspended order.

It is almost certain that you would have to make 6 months payments on time before making such an application.

 

The difficulty you would have with promising to pay the monthly installments + £70 towards the arrears is that the other side could claim that it is not your responsibility and they have no guarantee that you will continue to make the payments.

 

If you let me kow which option you decide to take I will write you a statement.

 

Ell-enn

[taiko]

Dear Ell-enn

 

Thanks for the last post.In view of the late hour and my need to make a decision with my son I will get back to you tomorrow .Sincere thanks for your posts to date and for your patience.

 

Kind regards

 

Taiko

[Goldlady]

Taiko, just to give you some hope, it was when I went to court for my friends' repossession hearing with Firstplus that I discovered about the PPI. And the subsequent reclaim which was a resounding success. So if you do pay this money, God bless you, then hopefully you will be able to fight to get most of it back. Even if you do need to issue proceedings - and then I will definitely come to court with you;)

[taiko]

Dear Ell-enn

 

I have come to the conclusion that the only way out of this situation is to try to pay off the jackels completely and to get them off my sons'back. However on talking to the court staff and reading the Witness Statement that the solicitors intend to rely on I have deep misgivings about their aims and claims .They seem to be asking for Possession, plus payment of arrears (£9k) and then also judgement for the total amount outstanding(£65k). This is both having your cake and eating it to me. Would any fair minded judge go along with such demands in your opinion?Or would he settle for complete payment of the current outstanding debt?

 

I am prepared to offer to clear the current outstanding balance of the mortgage for my son(so, in my eyes, there would be no need for possession to be given and no further indebtedness). Alternatively I wish to ask the judge to adjorn the case until I can produce further evidence from the Land Registry that the secured loan is not anything like the amount claimed. I suspect this to be true from conversations I have had with the Land Registry office.I also have evidence that one of the other exhibits,namely the Terms & Conditions being relied upon by the solicitor acting for Firstplus does not relate to the Loan Agreement actually signed by my son .It is in fact part of a totally different document that was never signed by my son.

 

Can you, and would you, put together a statement for the judge stating my concrete offer to pay and mentioning the above discrepancies in the evidence being offerred by Firstplus. Also mention of my daughter-in-laws and grandsons disabilities would be an added bonus.

 

I know I am asking a lot but if I can lift any risk of reposseion I can clear the decks and go for repayment of the mis-sold PPI, any unlawful charges imposed and interest on the monies that I consider was obtained under false pretences.

 

Kind regards

 

Taiko

[Ell-enn]

HI - what are you going to show the judge tomorrow to back up your verbal offer to pay off the mortgage? do you have funds in place to be able to do that? because that is what he is going to want to see.

 

Look at it this way - anyone could attend a repossession hearing and say "my dad says he is going to pay off the mortgage for me, but we can't show you proof today that he is able to do that" - do you think a judge will say "OK, that's fine, off you go......." he won't- I can assure you!

[taiko]

Dear Ell-enn

 

Yes, I can show the judge,and only him, documentary evidence that I have the funds available tomorrow. Do you think that I will be able to see the judge?

 

Taiko

[Ell-enn]

You should be able to accompany your son into the hearing and you will need to take a copy of the evidence of having the funds into the room with you. When you arrive at court you should ask the court usher to seek permission from the judge for you to accompany your son. If there is reluctance or permission is refused you can argue that you are accompanying him as a "McKenzie Friend". You will not be able to address the judge or answer questions on behalf of your son as the claim is against him only. However, you son will be able to ask you to pass him the evidence of funds to clear the mortgage and he can then pass it to the judge.

 

A McKenzie Friend or a McKenzie's Friend assists a litigant in person (that's your son) in a United Kingdom court.

This person does not need to be legally qualified. The crucial point is that litigants in person are entitled to have assistance, lay or professional, unless there are exceptional circumstances. Their role was set out most clearly in the eponymous 1970 case McKenzie v. McKenzie[1] Although this role applies in the jurisdiction of England and Wales, it is regarded as having its origins in common law and hence has been adopted in practice in other common law jurisdictions such as Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the USA. The role should be distinguished from that of an amicus curiae, a "friend of the court" who provides information for the benefit of the court.

 

 

I will write a statement this evening - it will require you to be able to fill in some blanks where details are needed - are you able to work in Word documents and then print off 3 copies?

 

Ell-enn

[taiko]

Dear Ell-enn

 

Thankyou in anticipation of receiving a statement from you. Yes I can work in Word 2003 and have a laser printer set up.

 

Kind regards

 

Taiko