Can they go for my House?

[carriexs87]

When my dad died my mum could not afford the mortgage so myself and my brother 'bought' the house from her and we were paying the mortgage, which is in my name, my brothers name and my brother's wife's name. My brother and his wife went to the USA 2 years ago and left loads of debt behind, the letters of which are all being sent to my mothers house. I opened a letter of his at Christmas and it was from the court saying there was a county court judgement against him for 10600 pounds from the Nationwide building society and that they would be looking for recovery. What I need to know is if they can try and go for Mum's house as it is one of his and his wife's assets? I am worried sick as I don't want to see my mum out of her home, but I can't afford to pay this off and my brother hasn't been in contact with anybody so I can't get in touch with him to sort it out. The worst is that I know he had access to a total of 30 grand on his credit cards before he left and it looks like he has maxed them all out and isn't paying any of them. Please please help. Thanks:?

[42man]

In my opinion if any more letters come to your house addressed to your brother I would return the letters unopened and say NOT KNOWN AT THIS ADDRESS

[Docman]

Carrie

 

Can I just clarify something about the house? When you and your brother 'bought' the house from your mother after your father's death, did you register your ownership with the Land Registry? Or did you just add your names to the mortgage?

[boyfalldown]

Docman,

 

Most (all) mortgage companies will not allow you to have a mortgage on a property that you are not the legal owner of, so you must be registered owner at the land registry.

 

Carrie,

 

The issue with returning mail unopened is that your brother, yourself and his wife are all going to be registered as owners at the land registry. I'm afraid I don't know enough about the legalities surrounding shared house ownership/charging orders to give you any meaningful advice.

 

BFD

[ODC]

If there is a County Court Judgement for the debt the next thing will be that they will go for a charging order against the house. You really need to take some urgent steps to see what your legal position is with regard to your ownership of the house and if you brother was ever recorded as the owner of the house

[Docman]

Docman,

 

Most (all) mortgage companies will not allow you to have a mortgage on a property that you are not the legal owner of, so you must be registered owner at the land registry.

 

Carrie,

 

The issue with returning mail unopened is that your brother, yourself and his wife are all going to be registered as owners at the land registry. I'm afraid I don't know enough about the legalities surrounding shared house ownership/charging orders to give you any meaningful advice.

 

BFD

I was thinking that the mortgage company could have replaced Carrie and brother following the death of father. It wouldn't necessarily need a change of ownership, just for Carrie & brother agreeing to become liable for the debt.

I agree it may not be normal practice but could happen on rare occasions such as replacing a dead parent to assist the remaining parent. Otherwise, if the mortgagor insisted on a transfer of ownership, there could be a stamp duty liability. A bit harsh following a breavment. Hence my request for clarification.

[jansus]

there is also the fact that presumably your mother is a "sitting tennant" even if her name is not on the mortgage or the deeds she may have a registered interest. This is quite a complicated subject as there are different types of ownership - tennants in common etc.

 

Probably you need official legal advice from a solicitor - but a little more information regarding the situation on how things were drwan up originally may help.

 

Are you paying all the mortgage by yourself now?But your brother still technically owns part of the house?

 

 

Were the title deeds changed at all?

jan

[carriexs87]

I am paying all thr mortgage by myself now - the **** has left me to deal with all this. We officially bought the house from mum - her name has nothing to do with the ownership of it anymore. I have contacted the companies he owes money to to say he doesn't live there and I don't know where he is blah blah blah - he owes about 30 grand in total!!!! If they put a charge on the house does that mean it will be taken when the house is sold or can they legally force the sale of the house. Please please someone help, I am losing sleep over this and if I tell mum I'm afraid she'll take a heart attack (if I don't take one first that it)

[carriexs87]

there is also the fact that presumably your mother is a "sitting tennant" even if her name is not on the mortgage or the deeds she may have a registered interest. This is quite a complicated subject as there are different types of ownership - tennants in common etc.

 

Probably you need official legal advice from a solicitor - but a little more information regarding the situation on how things were drwan up originally may help.

 

Are you paying all the mortgage by yourself now?But your brother still technically owns part of the house?

 

 

Were the title deeds changed at all?

jan

 

 

Yes, they were changed, yes I am paying the mortgage on my own. I don't know what will happen!!

[carriexs87]

I was thinking that the mortgage company could have replaced Carrie and brother following the death of father. It wouldn't necessarily need a change of ownership, just for Carrie & brother agreeing to become liable for the debt.

 

I agree it may not be normal practice but could happen on rare occasions such as replacing a dead parent to assist the remaining parent. Otherwise, if the mortgagor insisted on a transfer of ownership, there could be a stamp duty liability. A bit harsh following a breavment. Hence my request for clarification.

 

 

No, we completely bought over the house so mum's name has nothing to do with the ownership now, just that she is a tennent. Seems this ismore complicated than I thought.

[carriexs87]

Carrie

 

Can I just clarify something about the house? When you and your brother 'bought' the house from your mother after your father's death, did you register your ownership with the Land Registry? Or did you just add your names to the mortgage?

 

 

No, we completely bought the house over, new mortgage and everything, we didn't just take over the existing one.

[carriexs87]

If there is a County Court Judgement for the debt the next thing will be that they will go for a charging order against the house. You really need to take some urgent steps to see what your legal position is with regard to your ownership of the house and if you brother was ever recorded as the owner of the house

 

Myself, my brother and his wife are alll down as the legal owners of the house. If his debts are about 30 grand do you know if they can force the house sale? Even though I have been paying the mortgage on my own for 2 years, and have proof of it?

[carriexs87]

there is also the fact that presumably your mother is a "sitting tennant" even if her name is not on the mortgage or the deeds she may have a registered interest. This is quite a complicated subject as there are different types of ownership - tennants in common etc.

 

Probably you need official legal advice from a solicitor - but a little more information regarding the situation on how things were drwan up originally may help.

 

Are you paying all the mortgage by yourself now?But your brother still technically owns part of the house?

 

 

Were the title deeds changed at all?

jan

 

we 3 (me, bro and his wife) completely legally own the house. I am paying the mortgage by myself, and have been for 2 years ( I have proof). Will that make any difference?

[rory32]

If they put a charge on the house does that mean it will be taken when the house is sold or can they legally force the sale of the house.

It's very rare for an order for sale to be granted. Usually a creditor will not even apply for one and will wait until the property is sold before getting their money (sometimes charges are even transfered to a new property due to insufficient equity). The fact that you are paying the mortgage and are co-owner of the property (are you tenants in common e.g. you both own a percentage of the property?) would make it very difficult to obtain an order for sale as you have an interest in the property. The judge has to take this into account and when applying for a charging order the creditor has to list those that already have an interest in the property.

[boyfalldown]

Deleted- Rory got there first

[Docman]

OK, thanks Carrie for clarifying a few points. This could get quite complicated and I think you will need proper legal advice in due course.

The Nationwide have a judgment against your brother, not you or your mum. Remember that. If they proceed to go for the house, there is a two stage process. First, they would apply for an interim charging order. This would probably be granted almost automatically by the court to protect the Nationwide’s claim. There would then be a hearing to make the charging order final. At this point you and any other owner would be informed of the hearing by the Land Registry and clearly you and your mother could object.

The charging order is like a mortgage over the property, securing the debt. It does not mean that you have to sell the house. Even f the charging order was granted, it would only operate against your brother's share of any equity. If the Nationwide wanted to get their money, they would have to go back to court to get the charging order enforced. As rory pointed out above, the court is unlikely to order enforcement because the debt is due to a third owner and the property is home to an elderly sitting tenant. And to get to the stage of a court hearing, the Nationwide would have to be totally heartless and immune to public criticism.

I suggest that you write back to the Nationwide and explain that their letter to your brother was inadvertently opened along with Christmas mail. After reading the contents, you tell them he has resided in the US since XX date (whether you give his current address is up to you. Point out that the debt is not yours; that the property is owned by family to provide a home for your elderly mother following the death of your father; that your mother is a sitting tenant; that you pay the mortgage without any help from your brother; and that you would strongly object to the Nationwide obtaining a charging order. Then see what comes back from them and keep us updated.

[Allwood]

I would have though if the property is registered solely in the name carriexs87 then what has she got to do with the debts of her brother, as he is no long on the deed of the property.

 

As you say a charge order is to protect the loan on the property and I would be most surprise if an order would be put on deeds to protect debts that has now got nothing to do with carriexs87 absolute title. :-|

[carriexs87]

OK, thanks Carrie for clarifying a few points. This could get quite complicated and I think you will need proper legal advice in due course.

 

The Nationwide have a judgment against your brother, not you or your mum. Remember that. If they proceed to go for the house, there is a two stage process. First, they would apply for an interim charging order. This would probably be granted almost automatically by the court to protect the Nationwide’s claim. There would then be a hearing to make the charging order final. At this point you and any other owner would be informed of the hearing by the Land Registry and clearly you and your mother could object.

 

The charging order is like a mortgage over the property, securing the debt. It does not mean that you have to sell the house. Even f the charging order was granted, it would only operate against your brother's share of any equity. If the Nationwide wanted to get their money, they would have to go back to court to get the charging order enforced. As rory pointed out above, the court is unlikely to order enforcement because the debt is due to a third owner and the property is home to an elderly sitting tenant. And to get to the stage of a court hearing, the Nationwide would have to be totally heartless and immune to public criticism.

 

I suggest that you write back to the Nationwide and explain that their letter to your brother was inadvertently opened along with Christmas mail. After reading the contents, you tell them he has resided in the US since XX date (whether you give his current address is up to you. Point out that the debt is not yours; that the property is owned by family to provide a home for your elderly mother following the death of your father; that your mother is a sitting tenant; that you pay the mortgage without any help from your brother; and that you would strongly object to the Nationwide obtaining a charging order. Then see what comes back from them and keep us updated.

 

Thanks for all the help, I will try that and see what happens. I'm just worried that if mor CCJs come through the door, there will be so much that it will force the sale of the house. As I said, I think he owes about 30 grand on Credit cards, and thats only the things I know about!!

[carriexs87]

I would have though if the property is registered solely in the name carriexs87 then what has she got to do with the debts of her brother, as he is no long on the deed of the property.

 

As you say a charge order is to protect the loan on the property and I would be most surprise if an order would be put on deeds to protect debts that has now got nothing to do with carriexs87 absolute title. :-|

 

The property is in his name also and his wifes name, but they stopped paying their share 2 years ago, I have been paying it ever since, but their names are still on it.

[Docman]

Don't worry about any other claims. They won't be in any better position than the Nationwide.

 

If you get any more CCJ's from other creditors who write threatening a charging order, send them a letter similar to the one you will be sending to the Nationwide.

[Allwood]

Sorry did not realize that their names were still on the deeds therefore the can put a charge on the property, why not get your relative names off the deeds are they are not paying anything toward the mortgage, this would solve a lot of problems for you.

[make them aktiv runners]

we 3 (me, bro and his wife) completely legally own the house. I am paying the mortgage by myself, and have been for 2 years ( I have proof). Will that make any difference?

 

You may have a claim under the Trusts of Land Act to reduce your brothers/his wifes share in the property. You will need proper legal advice though as it would involve a court claim on your behalf.

 

The reason I say the above, is that you are solely paying the mortgage, therefore in fairness to you, you effectively own the house (irrespective of whose names are on the deeds). It is more complicated though because it looks like your brother/his wife had made payments in the past.

 

I assume your original agreement was a 50/50 payment to the mortgage and a 50/50 split in sale proceeds. The fact that the agreement has broken down means that the court can alter the shares in the property to one that is now fair to each party. This action would severely reduce your brothers/his wifes share in any sale proceeds and make it even more difficult for creditors to push for a sale. Also, the same Act gives your mother a residency claim.

[Allwood]

Why not draw a deed of trust for your relatives and take their names off the deeds the deed of trust would protect them when the property has been sold however to do this you would need to contact a solicitor and it would probably cost you to do it but you can always recover this when the property is sold.

[carriexs87]

Why not draw a deed of trust for your relatives and take their names off the deeds the deed of trust would protect them when the property has been sold however to do this you would need to contact a solicitor and it would probably cost you to do it but you can always recover this when the property is sold.

 

I have already enquired about getting them off the mortgage, but because on paper I cannot officially afford the total mortgage (even though I am paying it all) I cannot have it totally in my name, which is crazy as I'm paying it already. I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and contact a solicitor. Never get involved with families and money!!

[carriexs87]

You may have a claim under the Trusts of Land Act to reduce your brothers/his wifes share in the property. You will need proper legal advice though as it would involve a court claim on your behalf.

 

The reason I say the above, is that you are solely paying the mortgage, therefore in fairness to you, you effectively own the house (irrespective of whose names are on the deeds). It is more complicated though because it looks like your brother/his wife had made payments in the past.

 

I assume your original agreement was a 50/50 payment to the mortgage and a 50/50 split in sale proceeds. The fact that the agreement has broken down means that the court can alter the shares in the property to one that is now fair to each party. This action would severely reduce your brothers/his wifes share in any sale proceeds and make it even more difficult for creditors to push for a sale. Also, the same Act gives your mother a residency claim.

 

That sounds interesting, I will definately look into that. Thanks!!