Sacked 4 Yrs Ago-should I Have Had Legal Help/offer From Union?

[Weird Al Yankovic]

I certainly agree with union representation, and believe it should be a right of ALL employees if they wish it. On the whole my experience of unions has been good, but at the time of my problems, I felt employment law at that time had been tilted in favour of employers.

 

But nobody seems to be disputing the fact employees should be represented.

 

Your experience has been good, mine bad. No great surprise here-it happens.

 

My point is that I would prefer to ask somebody who has expert knowledge of employment matters, a lawyer, rather than asking a postman, as my last union was the CWU.

 

It's a no brainer.

[MilkTrayMan]

...Again, why would I want to ask an opinion of a postman (CWU) about an employment matter when I could get expert legal advice for free?

Any solicitor who was any good would be a Barrister, who would then prefer to be a Judge no doubt.

Not ALL solicitors know their stuff!

...Just think about the zillions of person litigants who have faced 'professionals' in court re: Bank Penalty Charges + WON!!!...

Please DON'T judge a person by their occupation!...

[caro]

But nobody seems to be disputing the fact employees should be represented.

 

Your experience has been good, mine bad. No great surprise here-it happens.

 

My point is that I would prefer to ask somebody who has expert knowledge of employment matters, a lawyer, rather than asking a postman, as my last union was the CWU.

 

It's a no brainer.

 

I must admit that my gut reaction is the same. Some years ago I was bullied at work by my boss to the extent that I was signed off with occupational stress for 3 months, and I didn't get paid, but I couldn't face going back. IMO it was constructive dismissal and I found my union made no difference to the situation at all.

 

I couldn't face the thought of carrying on the fight at tribunal. I spoke to an employment lawyer sometime later (maybe 3 or 4 years) and it was too late for me to take action. Ironically my ex-boss was sacked a few years later for bullying, as it seems I was the first of her many victims.

 

I feel the union were ineffective, and that the company let me down too, but my rep took lots of advice from more qualified people in her genuine effort to help me. I've moved on now, and no-one will ever bully me again. I gained a lot of strength from that experience, but I'm sure had I gone to a tribunal in time I'd have won a lot of money. I've just moved on, and I think you should do the same.

 

Please note the remarks in red. I have said that my experience was not good on that occasion. This was UNISON, and while I could afford union subs, I couldn't afford an employment lawyer when my pay was being withheld. I was pleased that the rep tried her best for me. She worked for the same company and in the same kind of environment as me so had a good understanding of my situation. She (and I) had the training and resources of the biggest union in the country at our disposal.

 

Some you win, some you lose as we well know on CAG. We fight to improve things for consumers, and are not experts, but at least we can all support each other in a similar way to unions. We don't ask people their jobs before deciding whether their advice is good or not. We just look at the advice freely on offer, postman or lawyer.

[paulgmb]

I'm sorry to hear of your personal experiences, mine were the total opposite. After I had an accident in the factory I was working in I was being harassed and bullied by a senior manager who was phoneing me everyday asking when I was coming back to work and threatening to stop my pay. He didnt once ask how I was!!

 

We didnt have a Rep on our shift so the warehouse Rep got involved and to cut a long story short he sorted out all the problems I was having and helped me make my claim because as it was proved the company were negligent. After that I was so grateful for the help I received that I became the Union Rep for my shift (elected unopposed) and although I left school at 15 with no qualifications instead of 16 no one could ever acuse me (or indeed ever has) of being useless, except a couple of employers who wanted to get rid of me for my Union work! I went through a whole programme of training and education, including legal with the Union and although not now in that workplace continue as a Union Rep having helped hundreds of people over the years.

 

Unions are not perfect and most employers I have dealt with are far from perfect, hence this forum and the existence of Trade Unions themselves.

 

You have to remember that without the Unions there would be no minimum wage or minimum holiday entitlement or health and safety legislation etc etc. Infact if we had never had any Unions we would all probably still be forced to work 16 hour days, 6 days a week for next to nothing and be lucky if we got paid in cash rather than goods.

 

Whilst your personal experiences may be bad, I don't believe they are common.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

I believe in unions and workers rights.

 

However, when I had a problem the union, more so the union reps, were usleless and advised me incorrectly.

 

So much so that my eventual ET was dismissed (as out of time) simply due to the wrong advice I was given but, alas, the ET also dismissed the fact that I was incorrectly advised by the union as they said I could/should have received expert advice considering what I was complaining of!

 

I had done but the damage had already been done.

 

Therefore, I would always suggest getting expert advice rather than relying on laymen where, it transpired, they had had absolutely no employment law training whatsoever.

 

It's like having a pool attendant who cannot swim!

 

It's a scandal.

[MilkTrayMan]

...It's like having a pool attendant who cannot swim!

 

It's a scandal.

FWIW Pool Attendants do NOT have to be able to swim...

 

The vast majority of swimming pools in the UK have a depth of less than 6ft + overall dimensions of less than 25m X 50m.

There are also various flotation devices + long poles to hand, which should be used in the event of an emergency.

 

It is extremely dangerous to approach someone who is struggling to keep afloat.

It has been known for them to grab hold of their would be rescuer + cause them to also struggle to keep themselves afloat as the potential rescue develops into a desperate melee.

 

Unions have fought hard + long to get employers to acknowledge their Health & Safety obligations to their workforce + to end blatant discrimination.

...U seem to condone their abusive total disregard of these matters by suggesting that a Pool Attendant SHOULD place themselves in a position of danger as a matter of course + for it to be a precondition of their employment??...

...

[paulgmb]

and I wouldn't mind being represented by a fellow postal worker if I was employed in that industry. I've had some cr*p jobs in my time and all the Union Rep's I have come across from different Union's have been genuine in their desire to help their colleagues.

 

Lets not forget that Alan Johnson was a postie in Slough and is now not only a member of Parliament but a Government minister.

 

Don't knock people in lower paid jobs or with lack of qualifications until you have been there yourself.

 

I have nothing but respect for people prepared to scratch a living by any means they can.

[mortlake]

I'd like to know which solicitors are good for suing unions too

 

loads of stuff on my web site about union problems

John at employees dot org dot uk

 

I'm no expert but think most unions only have an implied contract and a very vague little rule book to say what you should expect for your money. Even if the rep is great, the central office can still let you down and get away with it. One person did manage to sue for her subscriptions back, taking the NUJ to court , but she had started working for the court service after leaving teaching and was confident enough to take the case herself. She also had a bit of legal insurance thrown in with her home contents that she had used to win a case against the employer, so it was easier for her to show the court how useless the union had been.

 

I guess a four-years-ex-union would say that they had shredded the records and anyway that you had a weak case. Just a guess.

 

I had an experience like Wierd el Yankvitc's, above. The union lawyer had clearly not been to a tribunal for a long time and had no intention of reading any papers. He was just funded enough to talk to a member for an hour and settle with the other side. Because of union delays I went over my three month time limit and lost nearly all my case.

 

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PS to save going to my website, this is the link to Sherry v NUT from the Coventry News & Star newspaper. It wasn't an appeal case and didn't get logged on the official web sites. Oh and a photo.

 

Sherry v NUT

[paulgmb]

Is this not just a Union bashing website?

 

It's easy to highlight a few disgruntled ex Union members but it should be remembered that most of these people have been treated far worse by their former employers and are often looking for a scapegoat.

 

Unions are not perfect but who is?

 

There are 2 sides to every story.

[mortlake]

They needn't be perfect, but the paid-for part of the service should usually be as good as the employer's legal insurance and human resources advice. And there should be a clear contract. I don't think that's much to ask.

 

When a union pays next to nothing from its legal budget on employment law their typical, average service isn't going to be as good as what the employer gets off a legal insurance scheme.

[Allwood]

Unions have very little power nowadays that was done away with when Maggie was in power.

 

It was mentioned that people should get insurance for free advice included in there household insurance, this is good advice. Regarding no win cases, I was under the impression that would be an insurance based as well, as if you loose therefore you would be responsible for the other side costs and that is where the insurance come in. I could be wrong but I am sure some will let me know if this is the case.

 

Best thing to do when in a union is to asked them for a professional opinion your case as they will have to look at it and give you an answer. Also it is wise to make a written record of dates and times when anything untoward happens in the work place as you are bound to forget it after the event so as soon as possible make a record. Also look at your contract and if there is a staff hand book get a copy of that as well.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

FWIW Pool Attendants do NOT have to be able to swim...

 

 

Yes they do.

 

They would need to prove, via a qualification, they are able to swim 50m in 60 seconds and be able to swim to a depth of 2m.

 

Uk regs where member's of the public use the facilities.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Any solicitor who was any good would be a Barrister, who would then prefer to be a Judge no doubt. I don't get this. 'Any solicitor who was any good' would surley be a solicitor who was good!? Not all solicitors wish to advance to a barrister or judge.

 

Not ALL solicitors know their stuff! I disagree. Any employment solicitor I have had business with has specialised in employment law and have been quite competent.

...Just think about the zillions of person litigants who have faced 'professionals' in court re: Bank Penalty Charges + WON!!!... Hardly 'zillions!' In fact, I gather only one person has challenged this issue in court and he lost. He also happened to be a barrister!! (Is there not a test case underway!!??)

 

Please DON'T judge a person by their occupation!... I haven't. A postman is good at posting letters. I have stated that a postman is not an employment law expert.

Would I ask a postman to diagnose any medical condition I may have? No, I would see a doctor.

...

[mortlake]

Craigten

Does anyone have contact details of any no win-no fee solicitors that might specialise in these sort of matters?

What would anyone recommend is my first course of action as regards to the Union? Shall i send them a letter?

 

About the first course of action: it's cheap to ask the union if they have any organised files about you. The data protection commissioner's advice about how to phrase the letter is here

http://tinyurl.com/2yyqlxand once you have their response, you have something to take to a solicitor - maybe one who specialises in professional negligence. The same links on my web site work for professional negligence lawyers as much as for employment lawyers. Scroll down to the bit that says "

To find an employment lawyer near your post code

 

I wrote earlier that the union might say the case was weak, they have lost the evidence etc but maybe you can claim that they should at least have done some work assessing how strong your case was and given you the option to check with a proper lawyer - one who is a law society member.

I dunno. Would be very interested to hear if you have any luck

John at employees dot org dot uk