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Charging Order - HELP!!!


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MCC have sent me two letters today saying that HSBC have passed over a couple of loans to them for collection and that if I do nothing then they will apply for a charging order to be placed on my property. Now, looking for any angle, if they did this it would save me around £500 a month (what they want me to pay them). Is it just a case of when I decide to sell my house that they get their money back? Also,what kind of fees do they apportion. I am just thinking that I would rather deal with the loan as and when I sell my house (no intention of doing so) than pay £500 a month to a DCA.

Am I being silly?

Cheers in anticipation

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It is possible, although unlikely that a creditor with a charging order against the property can actually go through the courts with a view to making you sell your home, also there is the possiblility that interest may be accrued on the debt from the date of judgement. This is not intended to scare you, merely to make you aware that there are extreme negatives surrounding charging orders.

 

It may be in your best interests to defend yourself from the CCJ and get a repayment plan that is more affordable, prior to any charging order even being implemented.

 

I have a CCJ, my loan payments were almost £500 a month, I now pay them just over £28 per month, I know who the happier is of the two of us I would consider following this route over relying on a charging order, given the possible ramifications of a CO.

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They cannot place a charging order over your property unless they have first obtained a ccj and you have defaulted on payments on that. I don't know about fees but it is my understanding that once a ccj is obtained there can be no more additions to the balance.

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Thanks Spamheed. I don't have the CCJ yet as they still are at negotiating stage. They want me to pay them per month exactly what I was paying HSBC before and to be honest, at the moment that is very tight so am I able to start negotiations off at a much lower level than the amount they want in a perfect world?

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"It is possible, although unlikely that a creditor with a charging order against the property can actually go through the courts with a view to making you sell your home".

 

Where do you get that from? Do you work in a Court? Are you a solicitor with experience of 'order for sale hearings'? No you are not and it is therefore irresponsible and wrong to lull someone in a vulnerable position into a possibly false sense of security. The FACT is that they will have every right to apply for an order for sale. Often creditors succeed in getting the house sold.

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They cannot place a charging order over your property unless they have first obtained a ccj and you have defaulted on payments on that.

 

 

It might not be the case anymore according to this thread posted today>> http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/125387-charging-orders-legal-update.html

 

I don't understand all the legal jargon but it doesn't look to good to me:confused:

 

Maybe someone with a better legal brain than mine could have a look and advise.

 

Reagards

 

Santos

Springfield

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If you haven't yet reached the court stage, don't let them have it all their own way. As Rhia correctly says, they normally cannot get a CO without first obtaining a CCJ. they can then apply to enforce the CCJ with a CO, irrespective of whether you default the CCJ. However, if you have a payment plan put in place by the judge, then you would have to default on the payment plan before they can go for the CO.

 

The key is to pay only what you can reasonably afford. and there is nothing wrong with negotiating a lower payment plan

 

a couple of questions.

 

How much is the debt for

You say it is for a couple of loans, have they been consolidated?

How much were you paying

How much disposable icome do you have?

When did you take out the loan(s)

 

Have you CCA'd the DCA yet?

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They cannot place a charging order over your property unless they have first obtained a ccj and you have defaulted on payments on that. I don't know about fees but it is my understanding that once a ccj is obtained there can be no more additions to the balance.

 

There is a distinct possibility that a judge will order a forthwith judgemnt rather than an instalment order. This could allow the creditor to start the charging order process.

 

If you answer Spamhead's questions we will be in a better position to assist you in moving forward with this.

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If you haven't yet reached the court stage, don't let them have it all their own way. As Rhia correctly says, they normally cannot get a CO without first obtaining a CCJ. they can then apply to enforce the CCJ with a CO, irrespective of whether you default the CCJ. However, if you have a payment plan put in place by the judge, then you would have to default on the payment plan before they can go for the CO.

 

The key is to pay only what you can reasonably afford. and there is nothing wrong with negotiating a lower payment plan

 

a couple of questions.

 

How much is the debt for

£3500 O/D and £13,500 personal loan

You say it is for a couple of loans, have they been consolidated?

No - O/D and personal loan

How much were you paying

£276 p/m on loan but nothing on O/D

How much disposable icome do you have?

Probably circa £200 p/m at most

When did you take out the loan(s)

Feb '06

 

Have you CCA'd the DCA yet?

 

Don't quite understand the question but hope you can enlighten me? Thanks for your input guys

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All is not done yet, I had a loan for £19k which I now have a CCJ and pay less than £30 per month, so a CO is not taken as read

 

In all likelihood, a loan that is only two years old is going to have all of the correct paperwork and a CCA request, other than buying time would serve little purpose.

 

Do you have all of your statements for the account with the overdraft? are there any charges on there?

 

IS there payment protection on the loan?

 

Have you submitted any income and expenditure papers to the DCA yet?

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All is not done yet, I had a loan for £19k which I now have a CCJ and pay less than £30 per month, so a CO is not taken as read

 

In all likelihood, a loan that is only two years old is going to have all of the correct paperwork and a CCA request, other than buying time would serve little purpose.

 

Do you have all of your statements for the account with the overdraft? are there any charges on there?

Yes, £2000 worth of charges which I was claiming back and so close to getting a settlement when the OFT froze all cases.

 

IS there payment protection on the loan?

No

 

Have you submitted any income and expenditure papers to the DCA yet?

Not been requested to by the DCA

 

Please see answers in bold

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I would suggest pre-empting their action by declaring th overdraft figure in default, if you can't act on claiming back the charges, then neither can theydemand payment when the amount owed is in dispute and until the case is resolved, there can be no clear outcome. if all of the charges were reimbursed this would leave an o/s amount of only £1500 on the o/d, an altogether more favourable figure for your to pay off.

 

The loan is a different and still very valid. I would consider producing an income and expenditure form and submit it to them with a covering letter, along with the payment that you can afford, bearing in mind you have legitimate expenses. ensure the income and expenditure sheet adds up correctly (really basic error I know)

 

If they cash the payment, then it will look bad to a court if they later refuse the payments. it also expresses your goodwill and intent to pay. Then pay this amount each month, regardless of whether they accept it or not. ensure each letter is recorded and retain copies for your own records. You will need them later

 

It's a game of odds and you have to try to stack the odds in your favour.

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Still worth sending a CCA request off (by rec. delivery).... because it legally places an account into dispute. Do not assume that they will hold off all action until you resolve the true amount outstanding because it's highly unlikely. These companies are out for themseslves... and are not interested in the likes of you and I.

 

When an account has been passed to a Debt Collection Agency, then you need to determine their legal right to collect upon it.... hence the CCA request. Meanwhile, have no further dealings with any of these morons over the 'phone because they will spill a load of bowlarks to intimidate you into paying more than you can afford. You have said that the company threatening the charging order is MCC.... who/what are MCC ? have you even told them you own property ? If not, then don't. It's none of their business.

 

The amounts they are requesting are totaly unreasonable.... send the CCA off (rec. delivery), have no more 'phone conversations (refuse to go through security, tell them a letter's in the post, whatever.... then HANG UP !!)

 

:)

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I think what you say about the O/D is a good point and I will endeavour to perhaps go down that route. As for the loan, I will send them an income / expenditure form forthwith. They have said that if I do not contact them by phone on Wed 9th Jan then they will immediately pass the case to their solicitors to commence legal recovery by way of CO. I know they are trying to put the squeeze on me by saying this but what worrys me is that I have a young family and desperately cannot afford to jeopordise my home. I haven't told them I have a property but guess that HSBC could see mortgage repayments going out and MCS (Metropolitan Collection Services) could perhaps consult land registry and find out easily enough. Apologies for writing MCC - it is in fact MCS who I believe are part of HSBC?:roll:

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Metropolitan Collection Services are a DCA and they cannot just commence legal proceedings for a CO without getting a CCJ first. If they cannot comply with a CCA request, you can defend that part of their claim on that basis (if it gets that far). You can also defend any figures they give for an alleged overdraft on the basis that the alleged amount contains an amount of unlawful charges and therefore, any Default Notice that you received would have contained incorrect info.

 

Regarding the loan.... if they do have a CCA (don't assume they will), then you can agree monthly repayments based upon an amount you can realistically afford. No more. If you CCA MCS, they'll have to pass the account back to HSBC if they cannot comply. You can then deal with HSBC directly.

 

All this ('phone) talk of a CO is nothing new. I had a company try this one on me around a year ago and they failed miserably. Send the CCA request off by rec. delivery. Submit your income/expenditure by all means if you want to (also by rec. delivery)... it will do no harm and save time if they do comply with your request. However,state "housing costs" in place of any figures for mortgage payments and for insurance figures... don't stipulate that it's buildings.... it's just "household insurance". :cool:

 

There is a template letter for requesting info. in writing only. Their ability to intimidate in a letter is far less intense and they need to be more careful what they put in writing anyway. I will find it and post it up.

 

They are after your money and you must protect your interests, so NO MORE 'PHONE CONTACT. If they are working on behalf of HSBC, they cannot commence legal action against you anyway... as they don't own the debt.... so you can ignore that tripe about ringing them by Wednesday.

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Dear xxxxx

 

Please be advised that in future, I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me by telephone over the past few weeks and these have been duly logged by time and date.

 

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

I trust this clarifies my position and yours and look forward to your considered response in due course. Please note however, that all attempts to reach me by telephone will continue to be logged, before being rejected.

 

Yours sincerely/faithfully,

 

:p

 

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Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner

 

I've just put this on one of your other threads as well... :)

 

Scroll down to Letter N, enclose a postal order for £1 (not a chq), do not sign it.... just print a "signature" in block capitals. Send it off by rec. delivery and keep the receipt. They have 12 working days within which to comply.

 

Let us know what happens. If you get any more from them or their "solicitors" in the meantime, please let us know as well.

 

:)

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Yeah, just noticed the other thread response. Thanks. Need to be proactive now and put things back in control. Just gutted that being a little 'head in the sand' has now resulted in being blacklisted for 6 years and a mountain of stress and letter writing. Still - live and learn I guess.

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I would suggest pre-empting their action by declaring th overdraft figure in default, if you can't act on claiming back the charges, then neither can theydemand payment when the amount owed is in dispute and until the case is resolved, there can be no clear outcome. if all of the charges were reimbursed this would leave an o/s amount of only £1500 on the o/d, an altogether more favourable figure for your to pay off.

 

The loan is a different and still very valid. I would consider producing an income and expenditure form and submit it to them with a covering letter, along with the payment that you can afford, bearing in mind you have legitimate expenses. ensure the income and expenditure sheet adds up correctly (really basic error I know)

 

If they cash the payment, then it will look bad to a court if they later refuse the payments. it also expresses your goodwill and intent to pay. Then pay this amount each month, regardless of whether they accept it or not. ensure each letter is recorded and retain copies for your own records. You will need them later

 

It's a game of odds and you have to try to stack the odds in your favour.

 

Just a thought but how do I send a payment I can afford if I am trying not to give them a signature they can use? Can I pay with postal order perhaps?

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absolutely, a postal order, or if you have someone prepared to do it, get them to write a cheque and you reimburse them. either is good.

 

The most important thing is that you get them to cash your payment, don't skint yourself or put yourself in a position where you are going to struggle and therefore default on the agreed amount, because if this payment is accepted by either DCA, or even the court, then you're going to be paying this amount for quite a while.

 

Don't panic if they cash the payment and still refuse the offer, this is all part of the game

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