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Diners Club Corporate card.. please help!!


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Hello there..

 

Ok Let me give you some background first.

 

I worked for an IT company 9 years ago, and was issued with a corporate card. The Card had my name on it, but was issued as a Corporate card from Diners UK. I had amassed around £1500 in expenses on the Corporate card, and filed my expenses as normal, however soon after I left for a Rival IT firm. And my old employers failed to pay the Diners Corporate Card.

 

4 years later I get a letter from a credit company saying I now owe nearly £4000 to Diners. I refute this, and refuse to pay, I am then told that it is my name on the card, so I am liable for the debt. So I pay a fixed amount each month for around 3 years.

 

Then the Company get abusive and want more money per month, I say I cant, etc, and they start to get more abusive, and abusive to my wife. I then refuse to deal with them and insist it goes to the small claims court.

 

Now a solicitor is involved and I have asked for advice, I have posted letters to the creditors Solicitor asking for a CCA as I know I never signed one, I explain it is a corporate card and not a personal card and I have never signed a credit agreement with Diners UK. I also explain that I filed my expenses as per company policy and they were aprroved some 9 years ago, and it is my old employers who owe Diners the money.

 

They have taken the matter to the small claims court, and I have a summons for a CCJ. I have sent letters to both Diners Solicitors and the COurt dealing with the CCJ, to say I an defending the claim, and may ask for a refund of the monies I have already paid to the collection agency, As I wrongly believed that because my name was on the card, i was responsible for the debt. I have included all correspondence and requests for CCA to the solicitors, and sent them with the defendent sheet for the court summons, and said I will be defending the claim.

 

As I have mentioned I have sent official letters to Diners Solicitors asking for my CCA, and to comply with section 7 (1) of the DPA. This is their response.

 

 

We Thank you for your letter dated 20th december.

 

In order to comply with section 7 (1) of the DPA1998 you will be aware, no doubt, that there is a £10 fee [ayable, and we therefore look forward to receiving the same by return, upon reciept of which we shall gladly provide you with copies of details. held by this firm.

 

(Now the important bit)

 

You request a copy of your agreement and we have asked our clients for the same, but you should be aware that the agreement in question is not a consumer credit regulated agreement, by virtue of the consumer credit (Exempt agreements) Order 1989 section 3 and therefore, the provisions of the act including sections 77-79 of the act do not apply to the present case.

 

As regards the issue of your liability, we are requesting instructions from our client.

 

Please help. I have no idea what to do next, or wether to carry on my defence of this debt. I feel very upset that I am being held accountable for a corporate debt, that is over 9 years old. I am also confused, and worried that my nievity to pay the collections company in the first place has jepordised my case.

 

Surely if Diners can not produce a signed CCA for the corporate Card, then I am not liable for the debt???

 

Please, any help and advice would be truely appreciated.

 

P.S I only decided to fight this, and look into my rights, when the collection agency threatend to make a charge against my house. And I have to thank you for your advice so far, as it helped me get the confidence to fight this.

 

DC....

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In order to comply with section 7 (1) of the DPA1998 you will be aware, no doubt, that there is a £10 fee [ayable, and we therefore look forward to receiving the same by return, upon reciept of which we shall gladly provide you with copies of details. held by this firm.

 

If you send the £10 to the solicitors, all you will get is copies of data held by them; you need to send a SAR to Diners Club to get all the data they have, which is what you need.

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Thank you I will do that..

 

Can anyone tell me what the exemption means??

 

Does it mean it's exempt from the 12 day rule, or does it mean that even if Diners can not provide a CCA I will still be liable??

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I suspect, without looking it up, that the exemption refers to Diners Club being a charge card rather than a credit card.

 

After re-reading your original post, since you now have a claim form from the County Court, you can require the solicitors to provide you with the information free of charge, under the Civil Procedure Rules. I'll dig out a suitable letter you can adapt a bit later. If they don't provide the papers, you can apply to the court for the claim to be struck out because they have prevented you submitting a defence. There are some people here on CAG who are very good at drafting defences, too.

 

Unless you signed an agreement with Diners Club, it's hard to see how they can collect from you. I had a corporate Amex card in the past, and whilst my employer required me to indemnify them (as opposed to Amex) against any personal spending, the liability to repay Amex lay with the employer.

 

It would not surprise me to learn that DC, having failed to collect from the former employer (are they still trading?), are trying it on by trying to collect from you. If this is the case, the solicitors will be hoping to get a default judgement on the basis that you don't understand the system.

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Again thank you very much for the advice.

 

I letter template would be very usefull, and I agree by the tone of their response, i also fear they are looking to hood wink me with legal procedures I know nothing about.

 

And yes I believe they are still trading, but under another name. The company was ICL CFM computer outsourcing comapany, but they have changed name a few times.

 

DC

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A couple of bullit points!

 

What happned to the six year statute of limitations?

 

Corporate cards are, in the main, not credit underwritten, but are supplied on request to the employee on request with an undertaking for the employee to indemnify the employer in respect of correct use. I had a corporate card from Company Barclaycard with a ddm from my own account. The one time the ddm 'bounced', Company Barclaycard collected the amount automatically from my employer and I had to compensate them!

 

As not underwritten and requested by the employer there will NOT normally be a credit agreement!

 

H

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Try this - amend as required:

 

Claim Number:

 

Account Number:

 

Request for Information under Civil Procedures Rules

 

 

Dear Curs

 

I have received the Court claim filed by your firm. To enable me to file a defence, I require specific information regarding the accounts to be provided forthwith. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings you are obliged to disclose, under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below. This information must be furnished by the (date ten days after date of letter). If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, and a request made for the claim to be struck out.

 

I require the following:-

 

1. All data held on me by Diners Club (check the exact company name against correspondence) from all relevant filing systems, to include a complete list of all transactions and charges on account number(xxx), copies of any correspondence relating to the account, and copies or transcripts of any telephone calls.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in the account history which has required manual intervention by Diners Club, or any other person or company, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to account number xxx.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, please confirm this in your response.

 

2. A true copy of the original signed agreement or contract between myself and Diners Club.

 

If you are unable to supply this, please confirm this in your response, and include a copy of my express written consent for Diners Club to process and/or share my personal data.

 

3. A copy of the terms and conditions applicable to the account at the time my card was issued.

 

4. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

 

5. Specific details of the fees/charges levied in respect of these accounts and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

6. A true copy of any Default Notice issued in respect of account number xxx.

 

I look forward to your timely response.

 

 

It would be interesting to see the Particulars of Claim; can you post them? It will also be interesting to see how they deal with data protection if the agreement is actually with your former employer.

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A couple of bullit points!

 

What happned to the six year statute of limitations?

If the card was issued 9 years ago (1999), and OP then heard from DC/DCA 4 years later (2004) and paid them for 3 years, the Limitation Act doesn't apply

 

 

Corporate cards are, in the main, not credit underwritten, but are supplied on request to the employee on request with an undertaking for the employee to indemnify the employer in respect of correct use. I had a corporate card from Company Barclaycard with a ddm from my own account. The one time the ddm 'bounced', Company Barclaycard collected the amount automatically from my employer and I had to compensate them!

 

Absolutely. As I said above, I think this is similar.

 

As not underwritten and requested by the employer there will NOT normally be a credit agreement!

 

Indeed, but there must have been some agreement or contract relating to the card and if the solicitors can't produce it in Court and prove that OP was a signatory, I don't see how they can establish that he has any liability to Diners Club. This is why I'm interested in the particulars of claim; they usually state something about money 'due under an agreement'.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Greetings again:

 

As recommended I have sent a Request for Information under Civil Procedures Rules, to the Solicitors, and there time limit ran out on Sunday.

 

What do I do next please???

 

Do I file my defense claim form and state they have not got back to me??

 

Any recommendations on how to proceed and a possible idea on structuring the letter?

 

As always.. Many Thanks.

 

DC

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Hi folks.

 

Can anyone help me out with what to do next, should I setup a defence for the CCJ as it is due at the end of the month, or should I just send copies of the letters sent to Stevens Darke solicitors back to the court and ask for it to be struck off due to no response from Diners or their solicitors??

 

Thanks in advance for any assitance.

 

DC.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Help.. :)

 

Ok I just recieved a Letter from the solicitors with an attached copy of an allocation Questionnaire. Asking for a stay of proceedings for 1 month so the Solicitors and Client (Diners UK) can attempt a settlement.

 

they have not however responded to my Request for Information under Civil Procedures Rules.

 

I have sent my Allocation Questionnnaire back agreeing to allow them the 1 month stay of proceedings to facilitate a settlement. I have however added to the Allocation agreement the letter you kindly supplied for Request for Information under Civil Procedures Rules, which they have still not responded too, Ive also asked for information regarding the payments i have made to ARC credit agency in error to pay this debt off. This totals around 1 to 1.5k in total.

 

Should I push for this money back, do I push Diners for it, or ARC, Do you think this settlement stay of Proceedings means their on the back foot, or is it just standard procedure??

 

Many thanks

 

DC...

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I have the Document in front of me, I have not posted it yet. I have asked for Details on Payments made to ARc and attached a copy of my original Request for Information under Civil Procedures Rules letter.

 

what else should I ask for ???

 

DC

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XXXXXXXXXX -v- XXXXXXX

Claim No: xxxxxxxxx

 

N149 Allocation Questionnaire

 

Section G - other information

1. It is requested the court give consideration to using its case management powers pursuant to part 3.4 of the Civil Procedure Rules to strike out the claimants claim for failing to comply with the requirements of inter alia part 16.2(1) (d) and fails to comply with the requirements of practice Direction 16 in so far that it fails to comply with point 7.3 which states

7.3 Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:

(1)

a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing,

The claimant failings to supply this documentation has placed me at a serious disadvantage, especially when it is considered that the credit agreement must comply with the Consumer Credit act 1974 and the Consumer Credit (Agreement) regulations made under the act. The consequences of the document failing to comply with the regulations and the Act can render the agreement unenforceable even by the honourable court.

If the court does not consider it appropriate to strike out the claimants case as suggested above, I respectfully request that the court considers the request set out below in point 2

 

2. If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case

The House of Lords in the case of Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) made it clear in paragraph 29 of LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD judgment

29. The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. The second type of case concerns failure to comply with the duty to supply a copy of an executed or unexecuted agreement pursuant to sections 62 and 63, or failure to comply with the duty to give

notice of cancellation rights in accordance with section 64(1). Here again, subject to one exception regarding sections 62 and63, section 127(4) precludes the court from making an enforcement order.

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the small claims track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer

 

Therefore it stands to reason that this document must be disclosed before this case can progress any further

 

 

 

 

right print the above off n a A4 piece of paper amending the XXXXX bits first

 

In the ************* County Court

Claim number **********

 

 

 

 

Between

************* - Claimant

and

 

xxxxxxxxxx - Defendant

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

  • Copies of the Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which complies with the consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations, which the claimant seeks to rely upon
  • Default Notice compliant with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 andConsumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended,
  • Document, contract or deed of assignment
  • Notice of assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925.
  • Copies of any statement or other document relied upon

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve the following

  • An amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

 

then print off this too on a plain sheet of paper amending the required bits

 

 

and then, in Box G

 

write in pen

 

Please find the following attached to this allocation questionnaire;

 

1) Section G - other information

2) Draft order for directions

 

This allocation questionnaire and its attachments were sent to the claimant on **/**/2008.

 

 

 

 

 

regards

paul

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Very interested in the outcome of this post, My OH has the same card well had, theyve now added hundreds of pounds in one month when it went to ARC, they are threatening allsorts so just posting off the CCA request.

 

OH cant remember if he signed anything or not so will see.

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Hi Summer.

 

I stupidly paid then for a good 3 years+, then they asked me to increase payments, and when I said NO, they started with the threats to add a attachement order to my house. Thats when I went looking for CAG, and now they dare not show their faces.. hurrah for CAG..

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lol, Yeah ARC threatened my OH with bankruptcy on Monday, honestly it was quite funny when he laughed and put the phone down.

Ive jsut done a letter asking for a breakdown of the 700 that was added from 3rd Dec2007 and Jan 17th 2008, Diners say its in thier terms , so we shall see.

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(Now the important bit)

 

You request a copy of your agreement and we have asked our clients for the same, but you should be aware that the agreement in question is not a consumer credit regulated agreement, by virtue of the consumer credit (Exempt agreements) Order 1989 section 3 and therefore, the provisions of the act including sections 77-79 of the act do not apply to the present case.

 

Does the above not mean that because it is a charge card it does not come under the CCA 1974?

 

I only ask because I have a Diners card and expect to be corresponding with ARC in the not to distant future.

 

Regards

 

Santos

Springfield

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello Again:

 

Ok next phase help please :) :)

 

1. The Solicitors still have not responded to my Request for Information under Civil Procedures Rules.

 

2. The Court has not responded to my request for Draft Order for Directions.

 

3. Solicitors have not produced a CCA or any other information from Diners and were in Month 3 now.

 

4. Just received a notice of Trial Date from the Court. In it there is a section stating and I quote. All Parties must deliver the every party and the the court offices copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing no later than 14 days before hearing.

 

5. The last section states that the Order for trial has been made by the court without considering representations from the parties and a party wishing a stay, varied, or set aside must apply no later than seven days after receipt of the document.

 

Help , kinda in deep water here and not sure what to do, the Trial is set btw for 13 of May...

 

Any help would make me feel a lot more confident :)

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