Alex_Delarge V's Lowell/HSBC **WON**

[Alex_DeLarge]

Hi all,

I have just registered after spending the last 5 hours reading posts and now feel a lot better than I did earlier.

 

Anyway back in July I recieved a letter from HSBC saying they had sold the debt and one from Lowell Financial saying they had bought it. Both letters regarding an outstanding credit card debt, the last I heard of was about 2 and half years ago. The amount was just shy of £2000 (I do not want to put exact amounts or dates as I am sure they have their spies on here). I agreed that I did owe the money and that it should be paid back. I made an initial payment of just over £100 at the start of August 2007 and agreed an amount of just over £50 to be paid every month via direct debit. This was after a lengthly discussion about how much I could afford.

 

All they did was divide the remaining amount into 36 and told me that amount just about covered the basic repayment (all made up on the spot)

 

I was told I would be contacted in the future to review my circumstances to asses if I could afford to pay back any more.

 

3 days before christmas I received a letter stating that my account had been reviewed and the monthly repayment amount would be increased by about 10% (again not wanting to put the exact amount). Nobody contacted me to ask if I could afford this, and this is what has annoyed me as I was playing ball, up untill now.

 

Due to my bank messing up a transfer to the account the D/D is taken from the payment did not go this month and I have now canceled the D/D.

 

What should I do now as I could only just about afford the repayment before they put it up but I feel I am being pressured to pay back more than I can afford. They have had £350 ish off me in the last 4 months and would have received the whole lot and I would have increased the amount if and when I could afford to.

 

I am sure I will be receiving a letter from them in the new year and would like to have the correct response ready.

[N.P]

Hi Alex,

 

Welcome to the CAG. You`ve come to the right place for help, so chill out from now on.

 

First things first. When was the Credit Card account originally opened?

 

Have you sent a CCA request?

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Hi again,

 

I forgot to ask. Are there any charges applied to this account?

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[Alex_DeLarge]

Just out of interest, although I am not disputing the debt can I still ask for the CCA just to see if they have it, as I have a feeling they wont be able to produce it and neither will HSBC.

 

If they cannot produce it can they enforce it even if I have made some payment towards the amount in question?

[Curlyben]

First NEVER talk to these "people" on the phone as they will try and get you to agree to anything.

 

Before you even think about making any sort of acknowledgement or payment to a DCA you MUST ensure that they have the LEGAL right to collect the debt. This applies even if you have already been making payments.

This is achieved by requesting a copy of the Signed, Executed Credit Agreement via a Consumer Credit Act (CCA) request.

There is a template letter to be found here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

Letter N.

Is it important to start the letter:

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY in Big Bold letters.

 

It is best to send this request via recorded/special delivery as there are some important deadlines to observe.

 

After 12 WORKING days the "debt" is in default and stays that way until the request is complied with.

If a FURTHER month passes then the DCA has committed a summary criminal offence and the matter should be referred to Trading Standards for action once the DCA continues to demand payment.

 

I hope this clarifies some things.

[Alex_DeLarge]

Hi again,

 

I forgot to ask. Are there any charges applied to this account?

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

 

Hi N.P thanks for the welcome, from memory there are probably £200 of charges included in the amount, it was signed about 5 1/2 years ago at an offshore branch of HSBC and I wonder if they can access the records to get the CCA.

[Alex_DeLarge]

First NEVER talk to these "people" on the phone as they will try and get you to agree to anything.

 

Before you even think about making any sort of acknowledgement or payment to a DCA you MUST ensure that they have the LEGAL right to collect the debt. This applies even if you have already been making payments.

This is achieved by requesting a copy of the Signed, Executed Credit Agreement via a Consumer Credit Act (CCA) request.

There is a template letter to be found here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

Letter N.

Is it important to start the letter:

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY in Big Bold letters.

 

It is best to send this request via recorded/special delivery as there are some important deadlines to observe.

 

After 12 WORKING days the "debt" is in default and stays that way until the request is complied with.

If a FURTHER month passes then the DCA has committed a summary criminal offence and the matter should be referred to Trading Standards for action once the DCA continues to demand payment.

 

I hope this clarifies some things.

 

Hi Curlyben, thanks for advice. So you are saying even though I have made payments I should still add the I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY?

[N.P]

Hi,

 

Here`s one I used for a friend - Edit as need -

 

 

 

 

 

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

 

 

 

 

To Whom It May Concern:

 

Your Reference: Agreement Number:

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

 

With reference to the above account, I request that you send me a true copy of this Credit Agreement before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

This is my right under the legislation contained within Section 77 (1) and Section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and I am entitled to receive a copy of my Credit Agreement on request.

 

Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 Postal Order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my Credit Agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

 

I also understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the Agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER :

 

 

1. True copy of original Credit Agreement

2. Statement of Account

3. Copy of the executed Deed Of Assignment from the Original Creditor and Thames Credit Limited.

4. Fair Processing Notice.

 

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed Credit Agreement within 12 + 2 working days of a proper Consumer Credit Agreement request.

If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation, and if you fail to comply after a further 30 days you commit an offence.

 

As you are aware, a Credit Agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by yourselves is made in writing only to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment - Administration Of Justice Act 1970, Protection From Harassment Act 1997, Communications Act 2003. If you continue to harass me by telephone I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office Of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine

 

May I remind you, there is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, Police attendance.

 

As this account is now in dispute, I would also draw your attention to The Banking Code Section 13.6:-

 

We may give information to the Credit Reference Agencies about personal debts you owe us if:

·The Amount Owed is Not in Dispute.

·The Office of Fair Trading provided a Code of Guidance that is in relation to Debt Collection: Office Of Fair Trading 664 Response to consultation paper and final guidance on unfair business practices dated July 2003

Deceptive and/or Unfair Methods-2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:- Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

 

If you continue in your pursuance of this account I will have no other alternative than to report you to both, The Information Commissioner and The Office of Fair Trading.

 

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the Office Of Fair Trading upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the Office Of Fair Trading's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a Consumer Credit Licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then please seek advice from your legal department.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

Me

 

 

 

I think that might help.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Hi N.P thanks for the welcome, from memory there are probably £200 of charges included in the amount, it was signed about 5 1/2 years ago at an offshore branch of HSBC and I wonder if they can access the records to get the CCA.

 

 

Hi,

 

Yeah, since it`s a DCA chasing the debt, then just CCA them anyway. You need to make sure these broken brains have a legal right to claim this alleged debt.

 

EVERYTHING IN WRITING from now on.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[Alex_DeLarge]

Thanks for the advice, I will send the letter off to them via recorded delivery on wednesday morning before they have a chance to get one out to me about the d/d not being paid.

 

I'll post in this thread to let you know how I get on.

 

 

Cheers folks and have a happy new year :-):-)

[N.P]

Hi Alex,

 

No sweat.

 

Just relax in the comfort that in the hands of friends on here. Everyone is in the same boat and want to help each other

 

Make sure you read through the letter and edit accordingly, as I said, I used it for a friend. I don`t think anything will need changing though.

 

Also, DO NOT SIGN it, just type your name.

 

Your probably better off using Special Delivery as the Royal Mail Recorded service is garbage to be honest.

 

Right, I think i`m off now. I rented a DVD out earlier, over 6 hours ago and I still haven`t watched it.

 

Regards and all the best for the new year to all.

 

 

N.P.

[Alex_DeLarge]

N.P just about to copy and paste int word to get letter sent of later today, I have replaced Thames credit with Lowell financial as they are collecting the the debt, is this correct?

 

1. True copy of original Credit Agreement

2. Statement of Account

3. Copy of the executed Deed Of Assignment from the Original Creditor and Lowell Financial

4. Fair Processing Notice.

[Alex_DeLarge]

In regard to the above post, the begging letters are from Lowell Financial but the letter from HSBC said the debt was sold to Lowell Porfolio I, I know its all the same but don't want to make a mistake.

[Alex_DeLarge]

Also in letter N from the library it states these sections: We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), we are entitled to receive a copy of our credit agreement on request. We enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

But in the the letter posted above it states: This is my right under the legislation contained within Section 77 (1) and Section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and I am entitled to receive a copy of my Credit Agreement on request.

 

Is one of these wrong, I am starting to get a little confused.

[Hippy-chick]

Also in letter N from the library it states these sections: We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), we are entitled to receive a copy of our credit agreement on request. We enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

But in the the letter posted above it states: This is my right under the legislation contained within Section 77 (1) and Section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and I am entitled to receive a copy of my Credit Agreement on request.

 

Is one of these wrong, I am starting to get a little confused.

 

Hi Alex

 

I'm not sure what your problem is. Both of these refer to the same sections of the CCA. I prefer the CAG template, as it is short and to the point, but that's up to you. IMO, if Curlyben recommends something, that would be the one I'd go for. He's king of the letters here and is always spot on.

[N.P]

Hi there,

 

Thanks for answering this one hippy-chick. I didn`t get up until 10.00. It`s nice to have a couple of weeks off instead of getting up at 4.30 every morning.

 

That letter was originally from Paul (pt2537 - I think it was).

 

He could use this letter or a letter from Curly Ben, but the letter above has more detail. If he puts Lowell or whoever is chasing him, instead of Thames Credit then he will be fine. We actually had a reply fro Thames stating they had bought the debt and didn`t have a CCA but what try to get hold of one.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[Alex_DeLarge]

Hi Alex

 

I'm not sure what your problem is. Both of these refer to the same sections of the CCA. I prefer the CAG template, as it is short and to the point, but that's up to you. IMO, if Curlyben recommends something, that would be the one I'd go for. He's king of the letters here and is always spot on.

 

Thanks Hippy-chick, just wanted to make sure.

 

Out of interest, are they allowed to just put up the monthly repayment amount and just send me a letter the week before the D/D is due to go, without even asking if I can afford it?

[Alex_DeLarge]

Don't mean to sound stupid but on the CAG template where it says reference do I put in the reference that Lowell use to write to me, as I don't want them to think I am asking for a CCA between me and them, I want the one between me and HSBC don't I?

 

Hopefully get to send the letter tomorrow now.

[pt2537]

Hi there

 

use the lowell reference, they are the ones chasing you so they have the obligation to supply the documents or pass the requwest on to the original creditor

 

that said it would be an idea to add a reference to the HSBC ref number too in the letter

 

that covers all bases and gives them more than enough information to find the account

 

Regards

paul

[Alex_DeLarge]

Thanks Paul.

[Alex_DeLarge]

Letter sent yesterday via special delivery.

[Alex_DeLarge]

Well, I recieved 2 letters today from Lowell Finacial. The first dated 04/01/2008 which is the same day they signed for the request for my copy of the CCA for the acoount in question.

 

This letter was regarding the fact that the direct debit had been refused due to lack of funds and that I need to make a payment to get up to date or else. This was in fact a bank error and the funds were available but I have since canceled the D/D. Lowell had put the amount of the monthy repayment up without asking me first, they just sent a letter telling me it was going up, it was not the amount we agreed to and I in no way agreed to the new amount.

 

I know you should not stop payment until the account is in default but as they had put the amount up without asking I feel I had the right to withold payment.

 

As the account is now in dispute (have special delivery signature print out for 4th of Jan) were they allowed to send me the letter asking for payment and threats about recovery etc dated the same date as the day they signed for the CCA request.

 

Also today I recieved another letter from them, dated the 7th Jan saying they are in receipt of my CCA request and £1 payment.

[Curlyben]

Well they have acknowledged your CCA so wait for their compliance.

[Alex_DeLarge]

Thanks Curlyben, is the default date the 22/01/2008 as I posted on the 3rd and they signed on the 4th is it 12 working days from date of posting + 2 working days I read somewhere, or is it just 12 working days from date of signing?

[Curlyben]

12 working from the 7th as they are allowed 1 working day for processing.

So that'll be 22nd Jan.