has anyone won a case as a result of a poorly legible CCA

[ZR120]

as title really, has any one ever had a debt reduced/setled/over turned etc

,all because of a CCA that is not legible.

 

Thanks

 

Reason being is my thread is here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/125122-need-urgent-help-recieved.html

[pt2537]

ZR120

 

it wont be long til we find out;) as i have recently written a defence on that very issue

 

the thread in question is here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/119668-lba-optima-leagal-services-6.html#post1296492

 

regards

paul

[NailPost]

Perhaps a more pertinent question would be if a debt collector, faced with a CCA request and nothing more than a photocopy or microfiche copy to prove it with, has ever gone to court to argue the toss with a judge.

 

As you may know judges are very finicky and they don't deal with copies. The only time I have ever seen a judge deal with copies is during a trial when all sides have copies of documents but one side has the originals available in court for inspection if there's any doubt.

[pt2537]

but there is a certain level of ambiguity in the construction of the act which could cause a few problems,

 

however, if we are looking at an illegible agreement supplied under a section 77 or 78 request, the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) would come into play as it sets out the requirements of a copy document for the purposes of section 77(1) or 78(1)

 

if the document is illegible it fails to discharge the obligations under 77(1) or 78(1) and therefore would render the account in default and therefore the claimant would not be entitled to pursue any litigation until such time as they comply with the request and remedied the default

 

and that would be the arguement i would present,

 

 

i believe that the original does not have to be produced in court providing the copy is signed by both lender and debtor and contains the prescribed terms and the copy itself is not disputed

[NailPost]

A matter involving a credit agreement would only end up in court if there is a dispute and in that event the original must be available for inspection by both sides and the judge. If it isn't the judge could adjourn until the document can be found, ask if there is reasonable likelihood of it being found or just strike the case out.

[Blossomandebony]

Recently the coop told me they only keep the original CCAs for 6 months, then they're put on the microfiche.

 

Therefore they would not be able to produce the original CCA in court.

 

Can anyone tell me what the implications of this would be . . .

[pt2537]

well, if the quality of the document is suspect or illegible, or the prescribed terms don't appear within the page with the signature on it then it could be challenged successfully IMHO and deemed unenforcable by the court

[Edz11]

Interesting point. We now know that "re-creation" of agreements now takes place and is now policy by at least one institution. Now that we know that practice exists then there is every reason to insist that the original is produced if a case ever goes to court. There is nothing to stop a re-created document being scanned or microfiched and being presented in court as a copy of the original. There is a B.S. relating to document storage and I bet not one of the cases we deal with has an agreement stored under that standard.

[stapeley]

This is music to my ears ! Please confirm , That if a case went to court a Judge would require the true CCA if the defendant disputed the CCA or the supplied copy was not legible.?

Edited July 21, 2008 by stapeley

[storm]

I had an agreement that was barely legible and I pointed this out to them

 

They discontinued the case the day before the hearing

[stapeley]

This is music to my ears ! Please confirm , That if a case went to court a Judge would require the true CCA if the defendant disputed the CCA or the supplied copy was not legible.?

Anyone ?????

[pt2537]

Anyone ?????

 

yes there have been a few, and in the next day or so we will be announcing a few more, trust me on that

 

i wish i could say further but at this point i cant im afraid

[stapeley]

WELL DONE , been following the other thread !