Taking responsibility for your own actions

[crugga]

crugga- you say:

 

"There are 1 or 2 people trying to blag it out of paying things off on here but if you read into them theyve usually got a very good reason or have been given a loan theyd never be able to afford."

 

WTF???

 

Suggest you keep reading and avoid taking the high moral ground until you know what the f-f-flip you're talking about.

 

I could tell you how to profitably stick the knife into your bank over the closure of your account - but then again you did break your T&Cs, didnt you?

Hang on I think youve taken me completely wrong here, I was replying to the original poster who is implying that people only come on here to find a way of getting out of paying for things. The 1 or 2 people came across a bit wrong, it was just written wrong, I meant generally in life a few people try it on as with anything, this was not in anyway related to reclaiming bank charges, just my stupid posting it in here.

[Jean_B]

Its quite understandable from the outside why the guy made this post but there are many issues with the charges.

 

I don't expect anything for free, I'm not that silly but I have had a wage coming into my bank account monthly for 18 years without a gap.

 

If I owe money to a catalogue I can then dictate when this money is paid back and how much I pay. Crap happens in life and sometimes interferes and most organisations will help people to manage their debt.

 

That is except banks. They take the money out, large sums because they can. My catalogue doesnt have that luxury. I can't offer to pay the bank back at a certain time or in a certain amount. So they zap all your money, then direct debits hit again. You then end up in a fast and awful slide into debt where the spiral is difficult to get out of due to the stance they take.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I wonder why none of the apologists for financial institutions seem to think that those institutions should also accept responsibilty for their own actions, such as irresponsible lending, or failing to ensure that the agreements they drafted met the requirements of the law, or not complying with regulatory rules.

[dave]

 

But it seems that alot of you want the banks to pay YOU for borrowing money that isn't yours.

 

Like Northern Rock?

 

 

If I went up to someone in the street and took money from them without their permission I am stealing. You if you take money from the bank that's not yours you want it free???

 

 

Like Northern Rock with taxpayers money?

 

It's not that hard to run a bank account without getting charges. All you have to do is live within your means.

 

Like Northern Rock did?

 

People need to take responsibility for the own actions.

 

Like Northern Rock?

 

(or Barclays, or any of the others that the media didn't tell us about when they went to the BoE for hand-outs of our cash).

[Gogivit]

Unknown warrior,

 

I think your comments warrents further examples of the banks grotest actions.

 

1) My utility company agreed to take a direct debit from my account between 1st and 3rd of each month, Accidently they processed on the 13th- This resulted in me being charged £260.00!!!!!!!

 

2) I withdrew cash from my bank cashier, who first checked my account for funds and said the amount was fine as I was in credit. Two days later and taking into account no direct debits or any other payments resulted in me recieving penalty charges for £39 + daily charges !!!!!

 

3) A friend of mine (and in last 10 days) discovered a utility company took money from his account on a day 3 days earlier than agreed. This resulted in charges of £200 that had left him moneyless (until I bailed him out) but the bank in question states " Until the test case is resolved, we are not obliged to deal with your request for refund due to error"!

 

If you feel all the above is justifiable, then I put to you that you could become a millionair by taking to court those (education authorities) that have taught you that robbery is acceptable!

 

Before you judge anyone, please make sure you get a full picture.

[vinegarvera]

At the mention of Northern rock the troll scuttles back under his "northern Rock"

He he;)

[Big Lewis]

How about the banks taking responsibility for their actions?

 

I looked at some old statements the other day. My bank has on numerous occasions, returned direct debits due to insuff funds when there were more than enough funds and then taken hundreds in charges. Is this blatant evidence of criminal/ fraudulent activity or do I just roll over and give up like everyone else?

 

Why cant I just phone the police, and have someone arrested?

[rory32]

Is this blatant evidence of criminal/ fraudulent activity

No, to be criminal the charges would have to be illegal.

do I just roll over and give up like everyone else?

I'm really not sure what you are refering to here. Millions of pounds have been reclaimed in unlawful charges through the help of this site and others.

Why cant I just phone the police, and have someone arrested?

Because no criminal act has been committed. Reclaiming unlawful charges is a civil matter.

[mrsfoot]

I think it is fair to say that there are some people who knowingly (a) write that cheque that wont be covered....(b) cancel major debts like mortgages and leave payments like sky (probably because its a smaller amount and best paying one than none at all) and © miss payments so they can have a few extra quid for the holiday / xmas. However 99% of us have incurred charges due to some form of bank error. this is not monopoly...we do not get £200...but we can and do expect to get our money back when the charges are deemed unlawful.

 

What we need to remember is the act of charging for the alleged breaches (of the contract that you / me / all agreed to) is not unlawful. What is contrary to UTCCR's, and deemed unlawful until further clarification is announced, is the fact that the charge does not relate to the actual loss incurred by the bank. No one i know (all 3 people including the OH ) wants something for nothing. We just want a fair charging policy. This can only be where the banks are not making billions profit whilst Joe Bloggs cannot pay his mortgage because the bank has just debited his account with hundreds of pounds of charges. And lest not forget, this Gvmt wanted everyone to have a bank account, even the most vulnerable, and when the cycle of charges begins its difficult to get off!

[JOSH_IOU]

lol i talked to the bank face to face what on earth is the point of a branch manager?

[dave]

No, to be criminal the charges would have to be illegal. I'm really not sure what you are refering to here. Millions of pounds have been reclaimed in unlawful charges through the help of this site and others. Because no criminal act has been committed. Reclaiming unlawful charges is a civil matter.

 

I think the poster mentioned that there were funds to cover the direct debits - the bank then purporting to say there were not and then charging their 'service' fee does amount to fraud - at least in the proper sense of the word.

[JOSH_IOU]

The UK's fifth-largest bank, Lloyds TSB, has reported full-year profits before tax of £4.25bn ($8.3bn), up 11% from 2005.

 

How can this charge be solely for administration use?

[JOSH_IOU]

interesting report

 

BBC NEWS | Business | Lloyds TSB 2006 profits grow 11%

 

Perhaps a one to use in a defence.

[indebtstudent]

"Perhaps a one to use in a defence."

 

Nevermind that why wasn't Nationwide's CEO used as part of the OFT's case? He clearly stated how the charges operate.

[JOSH_IOU]

Why did the bank demand confidentiality in a public case?

[indebtstudent]

Same reason they chose not to make anyone of the thousands of cases in the county court a 'test case'.

[poochball]

I've read a number of threads on these boards today and I have to say I am at a loss to understand most of you.

 

Fair Enough, you are entitled to your opinion.

 

Yes we all know that banks make their money by charging people, I'm not even going near that.

 

Bravo

 

Most people have a free bank account, ie there is no monthly or annual fee to use the service, IF you abide by the terms and conditions.

 

Agreed.

 

But it seems that alot of you want the banks to pay YOU for borrowing money that isn't yours.

 

Agreed when for example, I have £10 left in my account but withdraw £50 for a night out. I can see your point there.

 

Here is one reason where I beleive that this comment is not true. The issue we are dealing with here doesn't always follow a certain criteria. Further more you angle of perception assumes that we have taken money just for the sake of it. People have circumstances and issues that could lead to going overdrawn. Then there is the example below.

 

In 2001 I lost my Job. Up until then I had ran my Bank account with an iron fist. In fact I was very good, no charges and no problems with me. I then lost my job, the "Bouncing Ball" as I like to call it occurred. I ended up £100 overdrawn and the inevitable charges occurred. I opened a different bank account and asked for my then current account to be closed and referred for collection. No said the Bank. Charge after charge after charge was piled onto my account to turn £300 into nearly £1000. Explain to me why I don't have the right to claim back the £900 in Bank Charges? Oh and by the way, how does adding these charges each month constitute "approaching cases of financial hardship sympathetically and postively?" Perhaps the bank doesn't read the Banking code it subscribes to because there is nothing positive about increasing a negative bank balance.

 

If I went up to someone in the street and took money from them without their permission I am stealing. You if you take money from the bank that's not yours you want it free???

 

Don't agree with this statement. The bank does have the power to stop people going overdrawn by not allowing the transaction to be processed. Oh and by the way I fail to see how robbing and hurting a person could be matched up to taking money from a bank.

 

I think it's time people stepped back and took a good long look at themselves. Who are the bad guys? The people charging you for borrowing their money? or the person stealing it without permission.

 

You are stereotyping everyone again. Perhaps it is you who needs to look at him/herself.

 

It's not that hard to run a bank account without getting charges. All you have to do is live within your means.

 

Agreed but when your means change beyond your control?

 

I used to work in a call centre, and I'd see people running up huge debts, and charges. They would cancell their DD's to the mortgage company, the car insurance, the life insurance, etc, but never their DD to Sky. Odd that. If you're in that much trouble, talk to the bank face to face in a branch, or the companies who you owe money too.

 

I don't have SKY.

 

People need to take responsibility for the own actions. If you spend

money that you're not entitled to your gonna get charged. DEAL WITH IT.

 

I didn't spend any money. The bank kept spending charges on my account. Meh.

 

 

 

 

Out.

[mitsy]

you can tell it works in a call centre, possible a bank one.

[MagicTongue]

But it seems that alot of you want the banks to pay YOU for borrowing money that isn't yours.

 

If I went up to someone in the street and took money from them without their permission I am stealing. You if you take money from the bank that's not yours you want it free???

 

OK, lets reflect on this view then... so robbery or theft, so me going overdrawn, whether that be my mistaking what funds I have as cleared or not (ATMs vary in how the info is shown) or unpaid DD, etc - that is stealing? Is it really?.. If you want to stand by that as your argument then surely the bank taking the money I originally stole and a bit more means they too are stealing... correct?

 

Now what I think you misunderstand "Anonomous Legionaire" is that for the majority of us, going overdrawn can be the ONLY way to pay our way through life... remember we all have to eat drink so on and so forth. These are neccecities, sometimes maybe a little lux, but 99.9% needed! Surely the bank cannot penalise us for wishing to live a healthy life span, put a roof over our heads and try earning an honest living?

[mailmannz]

And lets not forget that in a lot of cases where people are going over drawn, they are going over drawn only because bank charges keep taking them over drawn!

 

Now, if I could run my own business like that, where I can print my own money Id be a fecken billionaire by now!

 

Mailman

[weazledeasel]

I used to work for a bank and the amount of people who would cancel all their Direct Debits and standing orders for things like utilities and council tax BUT leave Sky TV was shocking. What an odd sense of priorities.

 

I understand that banks are not sympathetic to those people who through a change of circumstances become overdawn and get into trouble and believe these people should have the right to get their money back. I myself have been in this situation as have friends and family. I have total sympathy with such people and I hope that the outcome of the testcase will stop this from happening again.

 

But when i see people who over six years have racked up thousands and thousands of pounds in charges just through poor account management i think it undermines the arguments of the group i spoke of first. Poor bank administration can not be the case in every single instance of bank charges. I used to see people who would have a late payment free on their credit card every single month, where is the logic in doing that. The bank i worked for would send a letter each month with the statement advising to pay by direct debit in order to avoid this charge but people would still ignore it. Some people have just paid no attention to their accounts and now jump on the bandwagon slagging off the banks. It is these people who I do not sympathise with.

[spidey41]

the_ unknown warrior me thinks probably works for a debt collection company be careful what you say ?

[electrica77]

Like Northern Rock?

 

 

 

Like Northern Rock with taxpayers money?

 

 

 

Like Northern Rock did?

 

 

 

Like Northern Rock?

 

(or Barclays, or any of the others that the media didn't tell us about when they went to the BoE for hand-outs of our cash).

 

 

LOL classic post :grin:

[electrica77]

also wanted to add-

 

why does it have to be an either/or scenario where the banks either charge for banking, or charge ridiculous fees for going overdrawn? Why can't they maintain free banking and charge realistic fees/deal with cases sensitively? It isn't as if they don't make obscene profits anyway. Didn't HSBC come in with some outrageous profit this year despite worsening economic conditions and the bank charge actions? They are using the bank charge cases as an excuse to levy yet more unecessary banking charges imo.

 

BTW, I agree people should try to live within their means, but when I was unemployed and claiming benefit for the first and only time in my life (I have been employed continuously since I was 18 except for a couple of small periods that I covered with savings), I was VERY careful with money, but a card payment processed late from a shop took me a few quid over my limit, and suddenly £38 of my £56 benefit was gone. Its pretty hard feeding yourself and a baby on £56 a week, I don't suggest you try it on less than £20. Fortunately Natwest have always been pretty reasonable with me and refunded this as they could see it was an honest error, but if they hadn't (something that has happened with other banks), it would have caused debits to bounce, and I would have been charged again and again- just two charges of £38 would have made it impossible to regain any lost ground.

[JOSH_IOU]

yup i agree