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    • Thank you Bank Fodder for your reply. Il certainly do that
    • Googled it and Family Money Savers purchased the assets of Key Financial Claims, there’s also threads confirming that they have acted as agents of Key. A firm going into liquidation does not nullify a contract so whether or not you owe the money will depend on when the offer of compensation was made. I would call them in the first instance to question it, all CMCs have to record all calls now, and you can make the subject access request over the phone. The fact that it’s taken 6 and a half years doesn’t make the contract invalid. 
    • the business and assets of Key Financial Claims were bought out of administration on a going-concern basis on 10 December 2015 by connected company Family Money Savers (FMS) for an initial payment of £30,000.   addition, the company is due to receive 10 per cent of FMS' revenues from Key Financial Claims' pipeline and 25 per cent of FMS' own revenues of which the company previously received 15 per cent. ………..     pers i'd ignore them.  
    • Hi, I currently have a Court case going on against Hartley Wintney Motors whereby I am trying to reject a car under the 30-day thing, as the car broke down 29 days after I purchased it. I was notified by the Court that the Judge had ordered for it to be referred to the Motor Ombudsman for dispute resolution. TMO advised that this could take up to 6 months as they are currently dealing with cases older than mine. Yesterday, through the Money Claims portal, I had notification that HWM had made an offer. I am trying to claim back £3,100. That's the cost of the car at £2,500 + the cost of a warranty. So there offer is:  "We can pay £2500 on 23 October. You must deliver the vehicle with all keys, logbook by 23 September. If you are not agreeable, business is closing soon, and any judgement awarded in the small claims court is also unenforceable. You will then need to dispose the vehicle."   So, firstly, why should I have to return the car? It doesn't go. I would have to pay for a truck to get it back to them. If the business is closing why do they want the car? Why would I give them the car a whole month before they pay me? They could scrap the car and there goes my evidence. Is the business closing? Their website still has over 60 cars for sale. Are they just trying to force me to take their reduced offer?  I have checked on Companies House and in June they filed a notice for compulsory strike off. One week later the strike off action had been discontinued. I've also contacted TMO to try and ascertain if this offer is in conjunction with them, as I haven't received any communication from them advising the same. If my matter is still waiting to be dealt with by TMO, why would HWM just randomly make an offer, when from the beginning they have been adamant that I am in the wrong?   I would very much appreciate any thoughts from people.   Thank you.     
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aBitofaPickle

CL/Cohen court claim form - old HSBC Loan debt need help

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25) In addition to this, as no agreement has been provided that complies with the CCA 1974, the Claimant cannot seek to rely on enforcement in the form of a Termination Notice, Default Notice, or other, as the requirements of the CCA 1974 have not been met. The Default of this account is therefore unlawful and inaccurate. I’m not sure about leaving this in, as there is no default that I know of.

 

Leave it in - whether you should have had a Default Notice (loan agreement) or Termination Notice (overdraft agreement) they still need to produce evidence of it to enforce under s.88 and s.97 CCA 1974.

 

32) Further, the requirement of s127(3) of the consumer credit act 1974 is that unless the court is satisfied with that a document containing the debtors signature and all prescribed terms exists the court is precluded from enforcing this agreement. The Claimant has not filed with the court such a document. Do I leave this in or not, as it is for a bank account?

 

I'd leave it in. The onus is on the creditor to prove that they have a compliant document - whether that is a correctly executed credit agreement, (loan) or documentation showing that they complied with the OFT determination or a correctly executed credit agreement if they can't produce that (overdraft) is really up to them. They won't get any help from us on that front.

 

Can you let me know what your opinion of no. 25 and 32 in my skeleton argument are?

 

I also wrote to Cohen with a letter before action for transferring the loan into an ovedraft without my knowledge. I've heard nothing back from them about that, and would like to include a copy of that letter in my bundle. Any advice on how to word it?

 

Just make reference to it (the Defendant wrote, in specific terms, to the Claimants representatives to seek clarification on the legal basis on which this claim is brought and whether the debt been enforced is a credit agreement or an current account overdraft. No reply has been forthcoming) then put it in as an exhibit. The Court isn't daft, so let them infer their own conclusions on the lack of a response - with a little help from you in the actual hearing, of course! :p


Always happy to help where I can!

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Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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I've been trying the court all mornigm but there is no answer, think they must be closed day after public holiday.

I have the skeleton ready to send, but haven't included the information on the letter I sent about merging the accounts.

I've had some advice that the court may not adjourn if Cohens turn up with the CCA as I have no proof of having sent a request under scetion 78?

Any thoughts on this?

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I've tried to ring 2 Courts today - I think they are closed as its a priviledge day for the Queen's Birthday.

 

If sent it, but have no proof, that is the danger. You will have to say you've sent it by first class post and it hasn't been returned to you, so must have been received.


Always happy to help where I can!

:lol:

Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"

 

Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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i do have a response from FD saying that they don;t recognise my siganture and to resend which i have done, would that be enough do you think?

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I was thinking the SAR was the section 78 request, if it isn;t what does section 78 request look like?

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I was thinking the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) was the section 78 request, if it isn;t what does section 78 request look like?
See http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162367

Steven

 

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oh dear, I've seen that before as i have sent one for my other thread with Egg. This debt was different in that the first I heard was a court application. I never sent off a Section 78 request.

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I spoke to the court and this is a "Directions Hearing". Is there anything i can do to specifically prepare for that?

If there are any 'buddies' available who could accompany me to court. i would appreciate that very much.

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I spoke to the court and this is a "Directions Hearing". Is there anything i can do to specifically prepare for that?

If there are any 'buddies' available who could accompany me to court. i would appreciate that very much.

 

I can't make it, but I don't think you have anything to worry about with a directions hearing;

 

Court Date?; A Guide to the Different Hearings - Consumer Wiki


Always happy to help where I can!

:lol:

Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"

 

Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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OK, thanks for that i have everything ready to take on Wednesday. what if the judge should straight out ask me if I'm going to pay this back.

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OK, thanks for that i have everything ready to take on Wednesday. what if the judge should straight out ask me if I'm going to pay this back.

 

What you really, really need him to understand is that your intentions to the outstanding balance is irrelevant to the fact that they can't enforce it against you.

 

The outstanding balance will remain, even if it's declared unenforceable, as the contract still exists, it's just that it can't be enforced against you by the Court as a result.

 

This isn't going to be easy, as you need to convince the Judge that you aren't avoiding a "debt", you are just trying to establish whether it is enforceable in Court under the CCA. The Judges bias either way may be what makes or breaks the result for you, unfortunately.

 

What you can say is that you would have to consider how to manage the debt if it was declared unenforceable. You could say that you would be prepared to discuss a short settlement with them if that happened, but the legal status of the outstanding balance needs to be determined before that can happen. Basically, anything that you can say that would be deemed as you "avoiding the debt" should be put forward, IMHO.


Always happy to help where I can!

:lol:

Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"

 

Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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What you really, really need him to understand is that your intentions to the outstanding balance is irrelevant to the fact that they can't enforce it against you.

 

The outstanding balance will remain, even if it's declared unenforceable, as the contract still exists, it's just that it can't be enforced against you by the Court as a result.My understanding is a declaration under s142, the court holds the power to discharge the debtor from their obligations under the Act and therefore the contract is terminated by the court and ceases to have any effect, this view is mirrored by Bradley Say a Barrister from Gough Sq Chambers who wrote an article in the Quarterly account on that very subject

 

This isn't going to be easy, as you need to convince the Judge that you aren't avoiding a "debt", you are just trying to establish whether it is enforceable in Court under the CCA. The Judges bias either way may be what makes or breaks the result for you, unfortunately.

 

What you can say is that you would have to consider how to manage the debt if it was declared unenforceable. You could say that you would be prepared to discuss a short settlement with them if that happened, but the legal status of the outstanding balance needs to be determined before that can happen. Basically, anything that you can say that would be deemed as you "avoiding the debt" should be put forward, IMHO.i would also tread carefully here , the court may view such a statement as acceptance of consensual enforcement. dont forget that the debtor can agree to the court enforcing the agreement, although it doesnt happen in most cases , after all you'd need to be a real mcmuffin to say to the court" i accept that the agreement is unenforceable but i want you to award judgment against me" but its always good to keep these things in the back of your mind so you dont put your foot in it

:)

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Subscribing. What time on Wednesday?


BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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OK, thanks for that i have everything ready to take on Wednesday. what if the judge should straight out ask me if I'm going to pay this back.

 

In effect, the creditor--by failing to ensure that he obtained a document signed by the debtor which contained all the prescribed

terms--must (in the light of the provisions in ss 65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary

disposition, or gift,of the loan moneys to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the moneys in circumstances in which it was never

entitled to have them repaid; so there is nothing to engage the rights guaranteed by art 1 of the First Protocol. Nor, on that

analysis, does the creditor have any civil rights in respect of which it is entitled to a fair and public hearing by an independent

and impartial tribunal. Article 6 of the convention is not in point.

 

Keep that statement up your sleeve, its the judgment of Sir Andrew Morritt Vice chancellor and it is clear as to what that statement means

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Thanks for this, I was hoping to have a buddy with me, as it helps to get perspective and make sure i don;t put my foot in it.

I was quite surprised when I phoned the court to hear this was a hearing for directions, and feel i have shown my hand early by sending my bundle to the court and the claimant. i hope that does not go against me.

 

It's at 3pm Goldlady.

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I remember when I went to court for speeding I was advised to say (if the judge should ask outright if I was speeding). There is no admission of guilt now will there be one, but that seems a bit cocky. I expect it all comes down to the judge on the day, but I wasn't sure if they would want to hear that I will pay it back just don't want it enforced through court, or that I don't think I am liable for it as they can't enforce it?

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I have a similar dilemma to yours with exactly the same claimant and solicitors - coming to a court near us on Thursday, although I am going to ring the court this morning to see if it has been listed as I have heard nothing from Cohens for about two months, even though I have done everything I was told to do;). I too have been trying to get my head round using the unenforceable CCA argument whilst not wanting to look as if I am trying to avoid the debt.

 

One thought that I had, bearing in mind that this particular debt is tiny compared to yours, was to offer the amount of money I actually owe them - ie remove all interest and charges on the basis that they cannot lawfully charge interest without a valid CCA, meaning in my case that I would actually owe them £100. How does that work in your situation?

 

I might be able to make it on Wednesday if you want me to - will confirm later today;)


BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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I don't know about the interest. I am hoping I get the paperwork from First Direct before I go. I probably can't do much with it in court, but I will understand the position slightly better. I still wouldn't be able to pay it off in a lump sum though.

It would be great if you could make it Wednesday. I'd really appreciate the support.

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Bearing in mind this is a directions hearing, the Judge may ask you the question, but he can't decide that the agreement should be enforced against you at this stage - that won't happen until the final hearing - which is why I made my suggestion above.

 

If this question is asked in the final hearing, you will need to have your response ready - whatever that may be. Either way, it all depends on what the Judge considers your position is - regardless of what you say, he may still consider you're avoiding the debt or not, anyway.


Always happy to help where I can!

:lol:

Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"

 

Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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So what is the most likely scenario in the directions hearing? Is it that the judge will tell thwe claimant to prove the claim?

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Well, that will be implied, but I don't think he will say the words.

 

The Directions Hearing is to agree what directions should be ordered to progress the claim in the most effective way - your job is to argue Paul's directions should be imposed, meaning full disclosure of the documents they intend to rely on are required. (and to reassure the Judge you aren't avoiding the debt, if he asks...)


Always happy to help where I can!

:lol:

Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"

 

Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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My pre prepared answers going to be:

Around the time of the alleged loan I had multiply accounts with the HSBC I don’t remember ever having a loan with this figure or account number I’m unsure what the claimants accounts relates to, I have requested a copy of the loan agreement as required in English law by the consumer credit act 1974, so I can check the total sum borrowed, the APR, terms and conditions of the loan and indeed if I have ever agreed to these terms.

The CCA 1974 was created by parliament as a consumer protection measure, I looking to the court for that protection…..

Then get the Wilson house of lords judgment to hand.

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Hi all, have read the whole thread and made a few notes:p.

 

I know this is a directions hearing, but one thing confuses me, that I guess cannot be clarified until you get the response to your SAR. If the charges on your two closed current accounts were refunded to you then the account that this loan was moved to must be a totally different account, or they would have refunded the charges against the o/s balance. Does the application form relate to this account, ie the one detailed in their claim, or to one of the accounts which has now been closed? And was the loan in arrears when you got your charges back?


BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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The loan must have been in arrears when I got the charges back. FD wanted to pay that money to the outstanding balance. I refused and they sent me a cheque.

AFAIK all of the accounts have been closed. I had joint accounts with my ex,I think FD gave me this account (the one Cohen are persuing) when we split up. It was the joint accounts I got the charges back on. The other (new) account was kept in good order.

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