CL/Cohen court claim form - old HSBC Loan debt need help

[aBitofaPickle]

I've copied the letter before report from tomterm, ready to send.

 

Do I need to send another letter quoting CPR and requesting all information relied on in court to them?

[ODC]

Personally I would. After all the burden of proof is on them and you require details of all the so called evidence that they are going to rely on in court so as you can prepare your defence

[Docman]

I've copied the letter before report from tomterm, ready to send.

 

Do I need to send another letter quoting CPR and requesting all information relied on in court to them?

 

 

Did Cohens acknowledge that their last letter was in response to your CPR 18.1 request last December and did it ask for any other documents they are going to rely on in court? If so, I would just file both letters with the court and send the SAR as suggested.

[aBitofaPickle]

They have made no response to the CPR request. This letter is in response to the defence I have filed. Which was from this link.

 

Having read their letter in connection with the section H I completed and seeing that they have provided a signed application by me to First Direct and there was a letter from HSBC in November informing me that my debt had been sold, I'm not sure what I can achieve by going to court.

[aBitofaPickle]

Looking through some similar cases on these threads. I have checked over the documentation. The last 6 months of statements they have sent from the bank, have the account closed the date MCS started to manage it, 13/07/07 (which I'm assuming is correct).

The letter from HC says that the personal loan account was was closed and transferred to my cheque account on 08/07/07, the statement for that date says Account Transfer, and there is a credit in for just over £6K. Then on the 11/07/07 there is a loan repayment of just over £6K which leaves a nil balance in the cheque account which was closed 2 days later.

 

This account that was closed with a nil balance is the one that HC are taking me to court for. It looks too straightforward to me and I'm thinking there must be something I've missed. Can they do this?

 

They say they have attached a copy of the credit agreement, but it is my application form.

 

I would appreciate anyone's help with this as I do intend to fight, but I want to make sure i have the right ammunition.

[ODC]

Usually a zero balance means they have sold the account on and have written it off against tax in their books

[aBitofaPickle]

OK, so to be sure of what happened should I get the SAR for this account and the loan account from First Direct?

[aBitofaPickle]

Letter sent to Cohens and SAR to first direct, no response to either yet. Is there anthing else I can be doing?

[Rooster-UK]

Bump.

[steven4064]

Hi ABOAP

 

You said a bit earlier that they sent a coy of the application form in response to your CCA request - can you post it here (if you have posted it already, can you give a link - remove any personal details)

 

Did they send you a default notice under s87 of the Consumer Credit Act?

[aBitofaPickle]

I'm trying to upload the document now. I am sorry it has taken me so long, but First Direct print on a black background and it was practically illegible.

If you are not able to make it out I can type it up.

I did not receive a default notice.

FD 1st page.pdf

FD 2nd page.pdf

FD 3rd page.pdf

Edited May 14, 2008 by aBitofaPickle
attachements

[steven4064]

Hi ABOAP

 

That document, as it stands, is not enforceable bexause it doesn't have the prescribed terms on it. Is there any more of it?

[aBitofaPickle]

I think it is all there now. I must have messed up the upload.

[adamski]

From what i can see it is also not properly executed, no signiture form the creditor.

[steven4064]

ABOAP

 

I've just read through the whole thread. The document in post #86 is an agreement for one of the current accounts, not the loan - so at least that is consistent with the POC.

 

Can you post what the defence you filed (the only one I can see on the thread is the partial one in post #41)

Edited May 14, 2008 by steven4064

[aBitofaPickle]

The defence in #41 was what I filed , and then there was the section H attached to the Allocation Questionnaire.

[steven4064]

What did you do with the bits in red?

[aBitofaPickle]

This is what I submitted to MCOL

1. On 17 December 2007 CL FINANCE LIMITED commenced proceedings against the defendant for £6145.89 plus interest, a debt allegedly incurred under an overdrawn bank account.

2. The Claimant states the debt was assigned them by a deed of assignment dated 28 September 2007.

3. The defendant does not admit or deny the debt, but puts the claimant to strict proof thereof.

4. The defendant has not received a valid notice of assignment for the alleged debt from the original creditor and therefore put the claimant to strict proof that privity of contract exists between the claimant and Defendant.

5. The defendant did enter into a regulated loan agreement with HSBC plc but did not have an overdrawn account.

6. The claimant’s solicitors were requested by letter dated 21 December 2007 to produce the following various documents under Part 18.1 of the Civil Procedure Rules viz., a copy of the executed credit agreement, a true copy of the alleged assignment and any default notice from the original creditor together with some form of proofof postage that this notice was sent to the correct address and was served with the proper notice before this claim was submitted.

7. To date, the claimant’s solicitors have not acknowledged the request, nor responded in any way nor supplied the requested documentation.

8. The defendant has not received a copy of any default notice from the claimant, and asks that the claimant provides the court with a true copy of such a notice, and with some form of proof of postage that this notice was sent to the correct address and was served with the proper notice before this claim was submitted.

AND the defendant.

9. seeks an order that the claimant’s action is struck out or otherwise is dismissed on the grounds that any claim cannot be enforced following the claimant’s default in failing to supply a true copy of the executed credit agreement as required by S78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

10. In the alternative, the defendant respectfully asks the court to order the disclosure of the credit agreement, notice of default in the form required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and notice of assignment in the form required by the Law of Property Act 1925.

11. The defendant also respectfully asks the permission of the court to amend this defence when the above documents are provided by the claimant.

[steven4064]

Thanks for that

[aBitofaPickle]

Was that the right defence to use? I don't want to go into court unprepared. Is there anything else I can be doing?

[steven4064]

The defence is OK (a bit on the brief side, but that is the problem with MCOL). You should prepare a court bundle with a statement of evidence and all the legislation and settled cases relevant and all your oter backing documents (if any)

[aBitofaPickle]

Thanks Steven, what is a 'Statement of Evidence'

Are there links to settled cases through this site, or will I find them somewhere else?

I'm not sure what would comprise a backing document.

Will I have to send a copy of my bundle to the court and Cohen before the trial date?

Cohen have said they are not going to provide me anything further, so does that mean there is nothing they can submit to the court that they haven't disclosed?

[steven4064]

Basically a statememt of evidence is a document that goes through your defence point by point and gives the legislation or judgements from settled cases that 'prove' your defence. The court bundle comprises this document plus copies of the legislation and judgements (or at least the relevant parts of them). Other 'backing documents' will be correspondence between you and them (for example, if you have casked them for something, a copy of the letter you sent asking for it, etc).

 

Cohens have to send you everything they intend to use well before the hearing and you have to do the same.

[aBitofaPickle]

I am starting to write the statement of evidence now. Any help on how to expand my defence would be gratefully received.

[steven4064]

Here's an example (out of date noe, but will give you te idea) http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionnaires-3.html#post482194