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    • Firstly, and sorry for not asking earlier but have you submitted your DQ yet?
    • As suggested by JK2054 I'll email Evri to their small claims email address, attaching the label and collection receipt and quoting the Money Claims ref number. Is there anything else in addition to sending the email I should do at this stage? Rgds, J
    • Hi, I'd change justice centre to county court. I also wouldn't be including a telegraph article in the bundle. It doens't prove anything law and you don't have distribution rights on it. I also wouldn't personally break down the exhibits on the index page, normally people have a seperate page for this right before the exhibits. The main index page normally just says Exhibits to WX of [Your Name] or at least that's the format I use/see people here use, although really it makes minimal difference.   I also see that despite referencing several judgements you haven't included the EVRi one   paragraph 46 really needs to go imo it has nothing to do with anything. Your in court to apply the law to your case, not to tell the judge about a newspaper that means nothing to your claim.   I also see you've adopted the issues in dispute/not in dispute, which is also known as a scott schedule. if you are taking this approach, for things not in dispute I would say this needs to be things that are agreed between parties, not things like "There is no dispute that I am happy to supply all this evidence which is included in the court bundle." I would say that issues in dispute is to focus on the aspects of the claim that are in dispute, such as whether liability is limited by insurance or not, so I'd be changing that accordingly.   BF should be along shortly to advise on things.
    • Fraudsters copy the details of firms we authorise to try and convince people that their firm is genuine. Find out why you shouldn’t deal with this clone firm.View the full article
    • J, I just numbered them like that; once the witness statement is made, I'll add it to the pages.   The court date has been set as 02 July 2024. Please find attached V6. I will send an unredacted to the email.  claim budle_V6.pdf
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Legality of Virgin Media traffic management policy


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Not sure your going the right way by cancelling your DD. You need to have the correct wording of the T&Cs, be sure right is on your side and then present that to them with an ultimatum.

 

It's another situation where you've got to cover your back and do everything as reasonable as you can to make VM come over as unreasonable as you can, and unfortunately not honouring your side of the agreement just gives them more ammunition to use against your argument..

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This is my second time with Virgin . I have been informed by there technical dept that because i'm considered a high user there Server automaticlly cuts my bandwidth for a four hour period then reinstates it . I am on a 20mb line I average 18.8mb for 30mins then drop to 4.5mb for 4 hours , which greatly annouyes me because it interfiers with my streaming quality

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@those who consider 1TB to be too much for a "residential" customer to download..

 

What about if someone watches BBC iplayer all day... or, in this day of multi-PC households, several people are watching several different programs simultaneously, continuously, as well as downloading service packs, patches, full unix/solaris OS dvds, voip and video calls, plus commercial VoD services?

 

A 2mb dsl service has the capacity to transfer 700GB a month, assuming uninterrupted 24/7 operation over a 30 day month.

 

An 8mb service equates to 2.4TB a month (2TB in reality). ADSL2+ upto 7TB (6TB in reality). 50MB cable? 12-14TB? And what happens when 100mbit is introduced? In excess of 20TB?

 

The problem with advertising "unlimited" and not defining "fair usage".

 

What is "fair" use of a shared network, which has been sold to you on the basis of full use of the available bandwidth on a point-to-point access technology? This harks to my first post here, regarding the "unlimited" decision.

 

Given the potential bandwidth figures above, what is the "fair use" of them, as a percentage?

 

Now, is that percentage figure a percentage of the possible bandwidth, or a percentage of what a given user can achieve?

 

To clarify that:- You answered "25%", for arguments sake. Take two users on the same ISP, paying the same tariff, on an "unlimited" DSL Max product. user A can get 8mb, so it is "fair" that he only transfers 600MB data a month (purely illustrative)... User B can only achieve a 4mb connection, limiting his monthly bandwidth to 1.2TB, and 25% of that is 400MB. Is that fair? Paying same costs for the same product but?

 

This is quite apart from what one is actually transfering. @conniff, you /appear/ to have fallen for the ISPs propoganda that anything above an arbitrary figure *must* be for downloading "illegal" films or "illegal" P2P use.

 

Why must they? Simply because you do not utilise your bandwidth in the same way others do, does not mean they are "guilty" of doing anything illegal or unlawful.

 

Should I ask how 1TB data = 10,000 films? According to so called scene rules the shortest a feature length film can be is 700MB (1 CD), = 1,200 divx films. ignoring the number of 1.5gb releases, you'd be hard pressed to find 1200 unique avi films in a month... Oh, and have you heard of HD? One is looking at 12gb+/film, 25Gb is not uncommon. And no, it doesn't have to be a pirated source either.

 

Apologies for overly long post. My own feelings, as an industry insider, is that the UK ISP market and the telcos have only themselves to blame for this problem. The warnings were sounded inside, long long ago. No one wanted to listen.

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Apologies, I just wanted to add another thought.

 

The telecomms industry classifies "fair usage" in two entirely different ways.

 

insofar as the PSTN is concerned, it is measured in connection time. Remember the fracas over Freeserve's "unlimited" internet over dial-up? It cut you off after 2 hours as people were hogging the access servers.

 

insofar as dsl is concerned, they have moved the goalposts. It is no longer connection time (ok, it is an always on technology), but data transfer, e.g. bandwidth usage.

 

This is another reason I'd really like the meat and bones of the "unlimited doesnt mean unlimited" decision.. I'd love to know how telecom savvy the plaintiff/solicitor was in that case.

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I have just received my latest bill from them which already includes a Payment Handling Charge of £5. They are not due to take the money until 26th February. I havent informed them I have cancelled my DD with them so how do they know?

 

I have sent them an email querying this therefore putting this bill on hold and I have told them not to attempt to extract payment until this is sorted out.

 

I also included in the email lots of questions regarding this throttling and accused them of breach of contract as they hadnt actively informed me of any change to my contract.

 

I think I had better place that call with BT to get a connection set up for when VM cut me off.

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I have just received my latest bill from them which already includes a Payment Handling Charge of £5. They are not due to take the money until 26th February. I havent informed them I have cancelled my DD with them so how do they know?

 

I have sent them an email querying this therefore putting this bill on hold and I have told them not to attempt to extract payment until this is sorted out.

 

I also included in the email lots of questions regarding this throttling and accused them of breach of contract as they hadnt actively informed me of any change to my contract.

 

I think I had better place that call with BT to get a connection set up for when VM cut me off.

 

Your bank will inform the direct debit originator when the direct debit agreement you have with them is cancelled.

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and now a leaflet from VM saying that I will being upgraded from 4mb to 10mb for free very soon...

 

I wounder if the capping of 800mb per day will still be in effect. I will able to use it for about 10mins a day until it slows down - how good is that??

 

Still no reply to my email sent on 11/02/08 though :(

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and now a leaflet from VM saying that I will being upgraded from 4mb to 10mb for free very soon...

 

I wounder if the capping of 800mb per day will still be in effect. I will able to use it for about 10mins a day until it slows down - how good is that??

 

Still no reply to my email sent on 11/02/08 though :(

 

You'll have to schedule your downloading outside of the catchment window for traffic management then, remember it's between 4pm and 9pm and you will be shaped for 5 hours from when you hit the trigger..

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Its makes no difference when you download - if you download 1gb between 3am and 4am they throttle you..... believe me I know ;)

 

Do you a source for this, because I can regulary download 2-6GB outside of the 4pm-9pm slot with no throttling at all?

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now thats very strange - as Ive said previously I had changed my download habits to be in line with what they were preaching but as soon as 4pm came or even sometimes later my throttling was put in place...

 

I will check this tomorrow, by leaving my d/ls on after midnight and see what happens

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One terabyte is so much information that no one could possibly use that much in a couple of years let alone per month.

 

10,000 feature length movies or

500,000 music tracks or

333 copies of Vista or

500 copies of office 2007 or

1000 programs at 1 gigabyte each.

 

Using a 24 your day

 

10,000 movies would take in excess of 2 years to watch.

500,000 music tracks would take in excess of 2 years to listen to.

 

As th3joker says he downloads software for testing:

 

Using a massive program such as Vista would only give just over 2 hours for testing.

Office 2007 would only have 40 mins per test.

The more normal (big) program size of 1 gigabyte would only give 20 mins per test.

 

You cannot test any program good enough to give a review or opinion in that time.

 

Remembering that this is using a 24 hour day every day and so is not achievable. On a 12 hour day the testing time for a normal large program would be cut to 10 mins, there is no way in this world that you can test any sort of program in that time. The time to watch the movies would move out to 4 years as would the music.

 

This takes us back to the download of 1 terabyte per month. If indeed he is downloading that much then it shows that it cannot be used and must be being overwritten all the time, unless he has 100s of 1 terabyte hard drives, and is just a waste of bandwidth, messing up the service for others.

In other words, he can download enough information in one week to keep him going for about a year, so why 1 terabyte per month?

 

Erm, its actually 100 HD films, or about 900 normal films if they have a DTS track. Alot less than "2 years to watch" i think you'll find

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Erm, its actually 100 HD films, or about 900 normal films if they have a DTS track. Alot less than "2 years to watch" i think you'll find
To be honest I couldn't give a monkeys' how many videos and how much music I can d/load before I get cropped. I pay for 4mb therefore I should get 4 mb whenever I want it.

 

Do you a source for this, because I can regulary download 2-6GB outside of the 4pm-9pm slot with no throttling at all?
Now, that is intesting.. I did try before and still got throttled. Now I have tried again and I don't get throttled. I even left it on from midnight until 4pm at full pelt and d/loaded about 25 gb :grin: and still didn't get throttled.

 

I'll stop complaining now and just use scheduling. That isnt a problem really..

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  • 4 years later...
th3joker wrote:

 

 

 

 

It's postings like that which put me in complete agreement with throttling.

That is just pure greed and you can't tell me that you are downloading that much legal stuff every month.

Your one of the ones who have messed it up for the rest of us.

 

I pay £50 per Month for my 50mb, I believe for that much I can download as much as I want to. If other feel this is unfair let them pay the extra Not being funny or anything, If you pay that much extra for ANY service it is to use more surly.

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There is only ONE WAY of getting VM to change this horrible thing Cut your services They need the money and if enough do it they will scrap it. Look, If we dont make a stand here what will they do next? will they tell us where and what we can download? Yes I do download a lot of documentaries and other stuff BUT I pay a lot to be able to do it. I pay £50 per month for a 50mb connection, tonight a speed test said I was getting 0.97Mb!!!!!!{last night I was getting 1 Mb for most of the evening} Tomorrow I am telephoning them to cut my service right down and they can get stuffed, what do they think we are STUPID I agree with a guy on here that said can you imagine the electricity people doing that Hit then where it hurts, drop your services, otherwise kiss goodby to peer to peer forever.

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@those who consider 1TB to be too much for a "residential" customer to download..

 

What about if someone watches BBC iplayer all day... or, in this day of multi-PC households, several people are watching several different programs simultaneously, continuously, as well as downloading service packs, patches, full unix/solaris OS dvds, voip and video calls, plus commercial VoD services?

 

A 2mb dsl service has the capacity to transfer 700GB a month, assuming uninterrupted 24/7 operation over a 30 day month.

 

An 8mb service equates to 2.4TB a month (2TB in reality). ADSL2+ upto 7TB (6TB in reality). 50MB cable? 12-14TB? And what happens when 100mbit is introduced? In excess of 20TB?

 

The problem with advertising "unlimited" and not defining "fair usage".

 

What is "fair" use of a shared network, which has been sold to you on the basis of full use of the available bandwidth on a point-to-point access technology? This harks to my first post here, regarding the "unlimited" decision.

 

Given the potential bandwidth figures above, what is the "fair use" of them, as a percentage?

 

Now, is that percentage figure a percentage of the possible bandwidth, or a percentage of what a given user can achieve?

 

To clarify that:- You answered "25%", for arguments sake. Take two users on the same ISP, paying the same tariff, on an "unlimited" DSL Max product. user A can get 8mb, so it is "fair" that he only transfers 600MB data a month (purely illustrative)... User B can only achieve a 4mb connection, limiting his monthly bandwidth to 1.2TB, and 25% of that is 400MB. Is that fair? Paying same costs for the same product but?

 

This is quite apart from what one is actually transfering. @conniff, you /appear/ to have fallen for the ISPs propoganda that anything above an arbitrary figure *must* be for downloading "illegal" films or "illegal" P2P use.

 

Why must they? Simply because you do not utilise your bandwidth in the same way others do, does not mean they are "guilty" of doing anything illegal or unlawful.

 

Should I ask how 1TB data = 10,000 films? According to so called scene rules the shortest a feature length film can be is 700MB (1 CD), = 1,200 divx films. ignoring the number of 1.5gb releases, you'd be hard pressed to find 1200 unique avi films in a month... Oh, and have you heard of HD? One is looking at 12gb+/film, 25Gb is not uncommon. And no, it doesn't have to be a pirated source either.

 

Apologies for overly long post. My own feelings, as an industry insider, is that the UK ISP market and the telcos have only themselves to blame for this problem. The warnings were sounded inside, long long ago. No one wanted to listen.

 

I agree, but this is typical of VM, they are just not very good with people {just look at there billing }

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I pay £50 per Month for my 50mb, I believe for that much I can download as much as I want to. If other feel this is unfair let them pay the extra Not being funny or anything, If you pay that much extra for ANY service it is to use more surly.

 

So do I my friend, so do I and soon to be 120mb.

 

And it's no good others saying 'leave' there is nothing to touch fibre.

 

1TB isn't too much to download as long as it's done after midnight like VM asks.

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So do I my friend, so do I and soon to be 120mb.

 

And it's no good others saying 'leave' there is nothing to touch fibre.

 

1TB isn't too much to download as long as it's done after midnight like VM asks.

 

Yes I know, there is really nothing that comes even close, however, If we stand for this what next? VM are just like our local bank, they just change things and we have to just accept it, what are we sheep!. Drop your service and tell them why you are doing it, VM need our money a lot more than people think, As for scheduling that wasn't part of the agreement I made with VM, I am busy during the day running my business, and I dint want to be up at 1pm to start anything downloading, why should I {and why should you} If they haven't prepared for most of us getting faster downloads through a huge upgrade what on earth have they been doing with all the money they rake in? Once you have the cable laid, it,s a VERY cheap business to run!. Get mad, tell them you are not going to be treat this way or just take whatever they want to give you. Sorry about going on, Im just so angry, this is only one of so many new "liberties" we have had to endure so recently. R.

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