Help: Parkforce on a university car park

[SARESK]

Hi,

I'm a member of staff at the University of Bradford and received a £60 penalty charge notice from Parkforce on behalf of the University for failing to display a valid permit.

Essentially my car was in for repair, so I took my wife’s car which had an old permit on the windscreen. The new permit was in the glove compartment (my fault I know, but I very rarely drive this car to work). The university have on record that I have a permit to park in the car park and that the cost comes directly out of my salary, but they won't budge from the 'tough, it wasn't in the windshield' excuse, even though they knew or could find out that I had one.

I have read the other threads and am confused as to my position as when I applied for the permit I signed the following contract with the university (not parkforce):

http://www.brad.ac.uk/admin/estates/downloads/permits.pdf

Could anyone advise me what my options are? I'm even more incenses as the university gets £10 for every successful penalty, and there must be at least a dozen students with no permits every day parked there who don't get tickets

[SARESK]

The security department at the university is adament that the ticket is paid (probably will go some way to paying for their chrismas party i think).

 

Does anyone know what exact laws/rules this breaks? I would like to be able to quote something concrete to the security department and parkforce company (pretend i know what i'm talking about)

 

Thanks

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Options are:

1) Ignore it and see if they chase your wife as the RK (if she is)

2) Ignore it and see if they chase you

3) Pay it as the pragmatic approach

4) Argue that as the £60 penalty is levied as a result of the contract you signed and is stated as such it is an unlawful financial penalty.

 

You do not appear to have given the authority to deduct the penalty from your monthly pay.

 

Your big problem is that if you don't pay will they withdraw/not renew your permit?

[SARESK]

I'm still a member of staff at the university, and need the parking space. Wouldn't them revoking the permit becasue i've complained about the ticket constitue some form of discrimination of harrasment?

 

I've linked the images to the ticket. Is there anything illegal about the wording.

 

By the way, i'm very gratful to all the folk on this board, but how much can I rely upon this. In other words if i showed this thread to security and said that so and so law had been broken, would they stand up and listen or ignore it? (i know this question is a tough one)

 

front of ticket: http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2168/front2ti3.jpg

back of ticket: http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2720/back2nd7.jpg

[petej2811]

Hi,

I'm a member of staff at the University of Bradford and received a £60 penalty charge notice from Parkforce on behalf of the University for failing to display a valid permit.

Essentially my car was in for repair, so I took my wife’s car which had an old permit on the windscreen. The new permit was in the glove compartment (my fault I know, but I very rarely drive this car to work). The university have on record that I have a permit to park in the car park and that the cost comes directly out of my salary, but they won't budge from the 'tough, it wasn't in the windshield' excuse, even though they knew or could find out that I had one.

I have read the other threads and am confused as to my position as when I applied for the permit I signed the following contract with the university (not parkforce):

http://www.brad.ac.uk/admin/estates/downloads/permits.pdf

Could anyone advise me what my options are? I'm even more incenses as the university gets £10 for every successful penalty, and there must be at least a dozen students with no permits every day parked there who don't get tickets

 

I got your email and will do my best to respond tonight.

 

Regards,

 

PJ

[SARESK]

Thank you everyone for the help and advice.

 

My cat also thanks you (it had a worried look that it may get kicked very soon)

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I'm still a member of staff at the university, and need the parking space. Wouldn't them revoking the permit becasue i've complained about the ticket constitue some form of discrimination of harrasment?

 

I've linked the images to the ticket. Is there anything illegal about the wording.

 

By the way, i'm very gratful to all the folk on this board, but how much can I rely upon this. In other words if i showed this thread to security and said that so and so law had been broken, would they stand up and listen or ignore it? (i know this question is a tough one)

 

front of ticket: http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2168/front2ti3.jpg

back of ticket: http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2720/back2nd7.jpg

 

I think that there is plenty that make this all unenforcable.

 

That's not the point. There is a bigger picture here.

Let's say you argue the point. I don't think that it is an issue they will take you to court over. I think what they will do is to say that they believe it was correctly issued, that you consented to it being issued when you signed, should have raised objections then and that your permit is now being revoked and/or will not be renewed.

 

This is the bit that worries me. It's in clause 4 of your T&C.

 

It is a requirement of the University of Bradford car parking terms and conditions that permit holders strictly observe the above parking restrictions. This ruling applies to all car parks on the Main Campus, School of Health Studies, School of Management and all other car parks belonging to the University. Contravention of these restrictions could lead to the issue of a £60.00 fixed penalty charge notice which must be paid within 14 days to The UK Parking Enforcement Agency, PO Box 186, Ashton Under Lyne, OL6 6ZU. You will incur additional charges resulting from further action being taken against you if the fee remains unpaid. This could also lead to the withdrawal of the offenders permit.

 

Much as I hate it, I think you may have to be pragmatic with this one.

[Tau]

Have you noticed that they refer the tickets as penalty charge notices !!!!

Would this not be unlawfull ??

[Tau]

Whoops hadnt looked at the ticket itself . But I take your point Bernie.

My wife has to pay for her car parking at the hospital she works in too.

[patdavies]

Much as I hate it, I think you may have to be pragmatic with this one.

 

I disagree.

 

Whilst the T&Cs that you have agreed would appear to show (as Bernie points out) that a contract has been formed and is therefore enforcable, it is still not lawful for fines or penalties to be imposed by a consumer contract. It is an unfair term.

 

This is exactly the same argument that is used for bank and credit card charges

[Guest interesting]

I would agree with Pat, if the document refers to it as a Penalty Charge as opposed to a Parking Charge then I dont think it would go very far even if the contractual points have been met.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Much as I hate it, I think you may have to be pragmatic with this one.

 

I disagree.

 

Whilst the T&Cs that you have agreed would appear to show (as Bernie points out) that a contract has been formed and is therefore enforcable, it is still not lawful for fines or penalties to be imposed by a consumer contract. It is an unfair term.

 

This is exactly the same argument that is used for bank and credit card charges

 

I would agree with Pat, if the document refers to it as a Penalty Charge as opposed to a Parking Charge then I dont think it would go very far even if the contractual points have been met.

 

I thought about this and found it difficult to come to the conclusion that this is a consumer contract.

 

In any event for this to be decided it would have to get to court and I don't think that will happen. I find it hard to get away from a very real concern that if SARESK fights this in the way that we would normally suggest what will happen is that he will simply find that while he avoids this charge he will have his permit withdrawn and/or not renewed.

 

What would you advise if the university writes to SARESK along the following lines?

 

Dear SARESK,

Regarding your Penalty Charge for parking without displaying a permit.

We have carefully considered all that you say.

We do not consider that the parking terms that you signed and agreed to are either a "consumer contract" or form part of your employment terms. They are a privilege and we are free to set the terms on which that privilege is conferred.

We sympathise with your predicament but as the rules are clearly set out in the document we provided to you and you signed (we enclose a copy) we see no reason to waive the charge.

Accordingly, unless you pay this charge in the next ten days we will mark our records accordingly and your permit will not be renewed when it comes up for renewal.

 

What SARESK will then have is potentially and employer/employee dispute and/or a dispute for an unquantified amount which may well not be a small claims track case and have consequent exposure to costs.

 

How will this have helped?

 

That's why I think it's pragmatic to pay. The thing which I didn't say is then to raise the issue of the unfair terms etc. All that that may achieve is to have the university re-write the terms to have the same effect but removing any doubt!

[petej2811]

I thought about this and found it difficult to come to the conclusion that this is a consumer contract.

 

In any event for this to be decided it would have to get to court and I don't think that will happen. I find it hard to get away from a very real concern that if SARESK fights this in the way that we would normally suggest what will happen is that he will simply find that while he avoids this charge he will have his permit withdrawn and/or not renewed.

 

What would you advise if the university writes to SARESK along the following lines?

 

 

 

What SARESK will then have is potentially and employer/employee dispute and/or a dispute for an unquantified amount which may well not be a small claims track case and have consequent exposure to costs.

 

How will this have helped?

 

That's why I think it's pragmatic to pay. The thing which I didn't say is then to raise the issue of the unfair terms etc. All that that may achieve is to have the university re-write the terms to have the same effect but removing any doubt!

 

Saresk,

 

With regard to the above issues, if my understanding is correct you have some status at your place of work. Would your employers really not renew your parking pass over something like this? Particularly given the fact that you could humiliate them publicly if they did?

 

PJ

[SARESK]

Saresk,

 

With regard to the above issues, if my understanding is correct you have some status at your place of work. Would your employers really not renew your parking pass over something like this? Particularly given the fact that you could humiliate them publicly if they did?

 

PJ

 

 

The honest truth is that i don't think that they really care. They claim to be fair and ethical i.e recycling, using fairtrade food, reducing carbon footprint etc.. but the bottom line is they're not intersted in the happiness or morale of staff or students.

 

At the moment i'm inclined to pay the fine and then make a massive stink about the whole affair. I've even written a letter to email to all staff and students, but have been warned that if this contains anything deflamitory to the uniersity i will be in trouble.

 

Its not even the money - its the inflexibility of it all. I had a friend in another university who forgot to replace his expired permit with his new one. Guess what.. he got a polite phone call from security reminding him.

[serialpcnreciever]

Hi saresk...i too have been issued a ticket at bradford uni, not jus a ticket but 3 infact!...all of them where recieved when i was giving a lift to a disabled student and had disabled badges displayed. £180 is alot of money to throw away for anyway, but for a student its almost impossible. Is there any way out of this?

[Barnsley Boy]

Yes there is - DON'T PAY,

 

I've answered your question more completely on the other thread.

[serialpcnreciever]

Yes there is - DON'T PAY,

 

I've answered your question more completely on the other thread.

 

 

hi thanks for your reply..