Blackhorse for a secured loan. - POC for PPI - Do we have any?

[Missy06]

I was just wondering if we have any Particulars of Claim for PPIs? I know that quite a number of us have won our claims but would anyone like to share their POC content?

 

I'm claiming against Blackhorse for a secured loan.

 

Thanks:).

[alanfromderby]

I think the difficulty is that the circumstances of each claim are somewhat different. Certainly it would be helpful if people would post their POC's when the feel it is appropriate to do so, and I am happy to sticky this thread if that is how it develops.

 

When I can, I will post mine also. However, some of the arguments I am using are potentially ground-breaking, and I would rather not show all my cards to Robinson Way until they have revealed at least some of theirs.

[Missy06]

ps: I found one by Tonycee & Barclays PPI.

[tonycee]

Hi Miissy06.

Please post up and ask if your version of this

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1112662.html looks ok before you proceed.

As welcome as you are to use it, and i wish you all the best, i havent actually submitted my POC yet, and dont know if its the best POC for anybody.

Good Luck.

[Goldlady]

Subscribing as I will either have or need some soon for more than one case.

[bathgatebuyer]

Thanks - I've just asked a similar question on my own thread v Halifax. Preparing mine to go to court against the Hellifax early in the New Year (after Xmas spending is out of the way and I can actually afford the Court fees!).

 

Will post mine once completed.

[alanfromderby]

Okay....I have now reworked my POC's as a template however, please be warned that you will need to adapt them to suit your own situation.

 

Claims of this nature cannot be done through Moneyclaim, and I would therefore suggest that you attach your POC's to the claim rather than try to fit them into the box on page two of the N1. Remember to sign both the form, and the attached POC's.

 

The document is laid out in court format, which I do believe helps to put over the fact that you know what you are doing.

 

All the legal arguments are available via the stickies - but, as always, if you are in any doubt whatsoever about your claim, you should you should seek proper legal advice before embarking on legal action:

 

Draft POC Template

[Missy06]

Alanfromderby,

 

that's great! Thanks......although I handed my PPI claim yesterday using the Tonycee & Barclays PPI draft which is not as detailed as yours...

 

What I'll do is add your bits to my bundle (if it comes to that) later on down the line........

 

ps: thanks for making this a sticky! We'll definitely need this to strengthen our PPI claims going forward.

 

Have a great christmas all!

[Paintball]

Thanks for this Alan ... I'll be using it as the basis for my first PPI claim and will be re-wording it as appropriate to reflect my personal circumstances.

 

x x

[Missy06]

My N1 form was returned by the court last week as I'd only sent it 1 copy and they required 2!

 

This turned out to be a blessing in disguise as I've been able to use Alan's detailed POC instead (I'd used Tonycee's originally)!

 

Dropped off the N1 with revised POC at the court yesterday.......with a cost of 105.00 in fees!

[johans]

Okay....I have now reworked my POC's as a template however, please be warned that you will need to adapt them to suit your own situation.

 

Claims of this nature cannot be done through Moneyclaim, and I would therefore suggest that you attach your POC's to the claim rather than try to fit them into the box on page two of the N1. Remember to sign both the form, and the attached POC's.

 

The document is laid out in court format, which I do believe helps to put over the fact that you know what you are doing.

 

All the legal arguments are available via the stickies - but, as always, if you are in any doubt whatsoever about your claim, you should you should seek proper legal advice before embarking on legal action:

 

Draft POC Template

 

alan, could this POC, be adapted for mortgage/loan guard PPI?

[phatram]

This POC will be used in my claim against Egg for repayment of missold credit card repayment protector / CCRP/(PPI).

My main argument is that they didn't tell me I could get this insurance elsewhere or that I would end up paying interest on it.

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

 

1. The Claimant had a credit agreement, credit card number xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx ("the Agreement") with the Defendant which was opened on or around July 2002.

 

2. At the time of opening the account the Defendant misled the Claimant into procuring Payment Protection Insurance ("the Insurance") as part of the overall credit bargain.

 

3. The Claimant contends that:

a) The Insurance imposed upon the Claimant were neither defined nor explained, nor alternatives from other suppliers suggested.

b) The Claimant further contends that if the Insurance was applied correctly, that the Agreement was not executed in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974;

i) As the Insurance was in fact a charge for credit on the Conditional Sale Agreement, it could not also be part of the credit on the additional insurances agreement as under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit even where time is given for their payments

ii) If the Insurance was not a charge for credit in respect of the Conditional Sale Agreement, as it was compulsory, it was a charge for credit on the additional insurances and under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit

iii) For the reasons stated in either (i) or (ii) above, the agreement for additional insurances failed to state the correct amount of credit and did not comply with paragraph 2, schedule 6, which requires that regulated agreements contain as a prescribed term stating the correct amount of credit

iv) The agreement for additional insurances was therefore improperly executed under section 61 (1)(a) of the CCA.

 

 

4. Accordingly the Claimant asks:

 

a) The Court finds that the Defendant acted in a way grossly contravening ordinary principles of fair dealing and reopens the credit bargain to perform restitution to rectify the unjust enrichment performed, to the detriment of the Claimant by the sum of £1641.91 by conferring a benefit under an ineffective transaction.

 

b) If the Court is unable to perform restitution, then the Claimant seeks damages of £1641.91 by virtue of the Defendants’ actions, be they fraudulently or mistakenly, in obtaining the Insurances.

 

c) Alternatively, the Claimant seeks damages of £1641.91 in regards to the Defendants clear breach of the Claimants human rights as prescribed by Article 1 of the first protocol of the Human Rights Act 1998 whereby the Defendants actions did cause the Claimant to suffer personal loss to the sum of £1641.91

 

d) Court costs;

 

e) The Claimant claims

 

i) Compound interest on the charges applied thereon to the Claimant’s account (“the principal claim”), at the annual rate of

22.9 %. This is the rate applied by the Defendant to the Claimant’s unauthorised use or borrowing of the Defendant’s monies, as provided for in the contract.

 

The Claimant’s case for claiming this rate is based in equity, and a legal requirement for fairness and balance.

 

The Claimant deems the Defendant’s principal indebtedness to the claimant to be unauthorised, since it is comprised of insurance charges that were imposed upon the Claimant, they were not explained and were in fact mis-sold, not advising the Claimant that alternative products were available elsewhere.

 

ii) In the alternative to e i), if the Court is unable to agree that the claimant is entitled to the contractual rates of interest, on the grounds stated, the Claimant avers that the defendant would be unjustly enriched if the Claimant’s entitlement was limited to the statutory rate of interest in that the defendant has had use of the sums and would have used these sums to re-lend at commercially compounded rates. On these grounds the Claimant seeks restitution of the compounded contractual interest at the defendant’s authorised borrowing rate of 22.9 % per annum.

 

iii) In the alternative to e i) and ii), if the Court finds that the Claimant is not entitled to contractual interest, the Claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984.

iv)Schedule showing interest calculated at the rate quoted at I is attached to these particulars of claim, as follows:

 

Schedule A - Compound Contractual Interest calculated at 22.9%.

[bathgatebuyer]

Mine has been submitted at Newcastle County Court against the Halifax - will publish it for people's reference as and when the case settles. (I'm keeping it up my sleeve to give them a nice wee surprise!)

[Vheneka]

Hi

The templet has very good information. I may use it in the near future.

 

Thanks

[johans]

alan, could this POC, be adapted for mortgage/loan guard PPI?

 

anyone?

[karinata]

anyone?

Hi there I use this for my PPI claim....hope it can be of help to someone else, you may need to adapt bits.....

 

The Claimants took out a secured loan on xx/xx/xxxx via a telephone call to the Defendant.

Claimants were told that the PPI was absolutely necessary in order to proceed to obtain the associated credit.

The policy was not defined nor explained and not considered "optional".

At the time of undertaking the secured loan, the Claimants were misled into procuring Payment Protection Insurance as part of the overall credit.

This is in breach of CCCA 1974, where a company must be fit to be involved in activities the licence covers.

The policy was not needed or requested as Mr X's employers operate a policy of full pay for 12 months of sickness,death in service benefits, and in addition to this there was critical illness cover and life insurance already in place.

PPI only applied to 5 years rather than full term. This is also in breach of Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999, where a term is unfair if “contrary to the requirement of good faith if it causes a significant imbalance in parties rights and obligations under the contract, to the detriment of consumers”.

There was over-reliance on information sent through the post, which again breaches CCA 1974 and is therefore negligent in line with 1967 Misrepresentation Act.

Under CPR18 claimant requests full documentary evidence of absolute compliance with best practise in sale of PPI and detailed record of training undertaken by staff.

The Claimant further contends that if the Insurance was applied correctly, that the Agreement was not executed in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974;

i) As the Insurance was in fact a charge for credit on the Conditional Sale Agreement, it could not also be part of the credit on the additional insurances agreement as under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit even where time is given for their payments

ii) If the Insurance was not a charge for credit in respect of the Conditional Sale Agreement, as it was compulsory, it was a charge for credit on the additional insurances and under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit

iii) For the reasons stated in either (i) or (ii) above, the agreement for additional insurances failed to state the correct amount of credit and did not comply with paragraph 2, schedule 6, which requires that regulated agreements contain as a prescribed term stating the correct amount of credit

iv) The agreement for additional insurances was therefore improperly executed under section 61 (1)(a) of the CCA.

The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year, from XX/XX/XXXX to XX/XX/XXXX of £XXXX.XX and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £X.XX

[johans]

Hi there I use this for my PPI claim....hope it can be of help to someone else, you may need to adapt bits.....

 

The Claimants took out a secured loan on xx/xx/xxxx via a telephone call to the Defendant.

Claimants were told that the PPI was absolutely necessary in order to proceed to obtain the associated credit.

The policy was not defined nor explained and not considered "optional".

At the time of undertaking the secured loan, the Claimants were misled into procuring Payment Protection Insurance as part of the overall credit.

This is in breach of CCCA 1974, where a company must be fit to be involved in activities the licence covers.

The policy was not needed or requested as Mr X's employers operate a policy of full pay for 12 months of sickness,death in service benefits, and in addition to this there was critical illness cover and life insurance already in place.

PPI only applied to 5 years rather than full term. This is also in breach of Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999, where a term is unfair if “contrary to the requirement of good faith if it causes a significant imbalance in parties rights and obligations under the contract, to the detriment of consumers”.

There was over-reliance on information sent through the post, which again breaches CCA 1974 and is therefore negligent in line with 1967 Misrepresentation Act.

Under CPR18 claimant requests full documentary evidence of absolute compliance with best practise in sale of PPI and detailed record of training undertaken by staff.

The Claimant further contends that if the Insurance was applied correctly, that the Agreement was not executed in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974;

i) As the Insurance was in fact a charge for credit on the Conditional Sale Agreement, it could not also be part of the credit on the additional insurances agreement as under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit even where time is given for their payments

ii) If the Insurance was not a charge for credit in respect of the Conditional Sale Agreement, as it was compulsory, it was a charge for credit on the additional insurances and under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit

iii) For the reasons stated in either (i) or (ii) above, the agreement for additional insurances failed to state the correct amount of credit and did not comply with paragraph 2, schedule 6, which requires that regulated agreements contain as a prescribed term stating the correct amount of credit

iv) The agreement for additional insurances was therefore improperly executed under section 61 (1)(a) of the CCA.

The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year, from XX/XX/XXXX to XX/XX/XXXX of £XXXX.XX and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £X.XX

 

thanks karinata!

[UK26]

any update?

[pinknico]

"The Claimant further contends that if the Insurance was applied correctly, that the Agreement was not executed in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974;

i) As the Insurance was in fact a charge for credit on the Conditional Sale Agreement, it could not also be part of the credit on the additional insurances agreement as under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit even where time is given for their payments

ii) If the Insurance was not a charge for credit in respect of the Conditional Sale Agreement, as it was compulsory, it was a charge for credit on the additional insurances and under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit

iii) For the reasons stated in either (i) or (ii) above, the agreement for additional insurances failed to state the correct amount of credit and did not comply with paragraph 2, schedule 6, which requires that regulated agreements contain as a prescribed term stating the correct amount of credit

iv) The agreement for additional insurances was therefore improperly executed under section 61 (1)(a) of the CCA."QUOTE

 

 

Would someone very clever mind explaining the above in simple english as I am sure I will need this POC shortly! Thanks

[hellhasnofury]

"The Claimant further contends that if the Insurance was applied correctly, that the Agreement was not executed in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974;

i) As the Insurance was in fact a charge for credit on the Conditional Sale Agreement, it could not also be part of the credit on the additional insurances agreement as under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit even where time is given for their payments

ii) If the Insurance was not a charge for credit in respect of the Conditional Sale Agreement, as it was compulsory, it was a charge for credit on the additional insurances and under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit

iii) For the reasons stated in either (i) or (ii) above, the agreement for additional insurances failed to state the correct amount of credit and did not comply with paragraph 2, schedule 6, which requires that regulated agreements contain as a prescribed term stating the correct amount of credit

iv) The agreement for additional insurances was therefore improperly executed under section 61 (1)(a) of the CCA."QUOTE

 

 

Would someone very clever mind explaining the above in simple english as I am sure I will need this POC shortly! Thanks

 

Hello Basically it means that the agreement that state the ppi is as such

 

You loan say £20,000 over Ten years.

 

PPi costs £4.800

 

The then add them together and charge interest on the both over ten years at their interest rate.

 

So you find that they added £4,095 in interest alone for the ppi. So infact the ppi cost you over £9,000 for the privilige.

There is lots of useful information relating as to what is require to make an agreement properly excuted and enforceable under the cca.

 

Have a look at the thread agreement enforcebility from page five onwards:grin:

[pinknico]

Hello Basically it means that the agreement that state the ppi is as such

 

You loan say £20,000 over Ten years.

 

PPi costs £4.800

 

The then add them together and charge interest on the both over ten years at their interest rate.

 

So you find that they added £4,095 in interest alone for the ppi. So infact the ppi cost you over £9,000 for the privilige.

There is lots of useful information relating as to what is require to make an agreement properly excuted and enforceable under the cca.

 

Have a look at the thread agreement enforcebility from page five onwards:grin:

 

Thanks for that,both my secured loans were set out like that.

[pinknico]

Can you point me in the direction of that thread about agreement enforceability please?

[alanalana]

Hello pinknico,,

 

Please see this link from the debt collection forum stickies section

 

Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful

 

aa

[pinknico]

Hello pinknico,,

 

Please see this link from the debt collection forum stickies section

 

Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful

 

aa

 

 

Thanks aa .

[hellhasnofury]

Can you point me in the direction of that thread about agreement enforceability please?

 

Hello pinknico,

 

Hey AA you are getting quicker:lol:

 

This is the thread I was referring to regarding info on the enforcebility of credit agreement. I will have to read the one AA posted up

 

Read from page 5 onwards for the info relating to ppi on agreements

 

Agreement Enforceability

 

See if this helps your understanding:-D