Seatbelt fine - DRAKES

[boom_boom]

Hi guys

 

On 190907 this year i was stopped and given a fixed penalty charge of £30.00 for not wearing a seatbelt.

 

Due to some ignorance and some neglect i failed to pay the fine. The fine went up to £45.00 and again I was too lazy to deal with it.

 

I have now received a letter from Drakes demanding £95.00 within 7 days. No arguments up until now... I'm willing to pay the £95.00 and called them today to make the payment.

 

The problem is I have been away and only opened the Drakes letter on Saturday. The date on the letter is 28/11/07. I called them to pay the £95.00 but the lady i spoke to stated that the matter had been referred to one of their bailiffs and she wasn't sure if he had visited the property yet. If he had then there would be further charges. She put me through to the bailiff to whom i spoke to personally. He advised that 3 visits had been made at various times by a bailiff alraedy to my address and the fine had been increased by a further £150.00.

 

I advised him that the only notification I had received from them was the original warning letter of 28/11/07. There had been no other letters suggesting that a visit had been attempted (i'm sure they're supposed to leave a notice of some sort at every visit if there's no answer???)

 

Upon advising him of the above he became pretty agitated and said he would check his papers again. After faffing with his papers he then advised that I owe the £95.00 plus a charge of £100.00 as i had left it later than the 7 days on the warning notice of 28/11/07. A total of £195.00.

 

I arranged to call him personally next Monday to make a payment but didn't say how much.

 

My question is that even after explaining to him that I had been away and couldn't get their warning in time... can they STILL charge a further £100.00 despite them NOT having visited my property and taken no further action apart from the original letter of 28/11/07?

 

I realise it's my own stupidity that got me into the mess but am willing to pay the £95.00 without any question. It's just the further charges they are placing that are bothering me.

 

Any advice would be helpful.

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

PS i'm sorry if the thread is in the wrong place. I started in what i thought was the most appropriate section.

[Sidewinder]

I would say that if there is no contest over the original fine and that it is through your own fault that the fine was not paid that you had best get this paid soonest. Drakes are one of the bailiff firms appointed by HM Courts to collect outstanding fines and there is every chance that this will escalate very quickly and end in all sorts of unpleasantness.

 

IIRC bailiffs can lawfully charge a set scale of fees which include £50 for a first letter, then £100 for an attendance fee. It sounds as though they have waived the letter fee, but they will not reduce the attendance fee. The issue of whether a card was left or not is probably academic - they may well insist that cards were left and ignored - after all (they will argue) you did ignore the fine in the first place.

 

As the matter progresses the next stage will most likely be to immobilise your car (for a further £100) then tow it (for a further £125) then charge £15 a day storage. Even if they can't locate your car, they will keep coming back and charge for their services.

 

You could try at the Bailiff_Forum for more qualified advice, but this looks to me like a sad case of having to cough up, high as the charges may seem. Sorry.

[boom_boom]

Wow wasn't expecting such a quick reply.

 

Thanks for your help mate.

[tomtubby]

The fees being charge by Drakes are wrong. When they were awarded the contract by HMCS they are bound by the fee scale in their contract. It varies slightly between different areas of the country. Which part of the UK are you in ?

 

In addition, bailiffs enforcing outstanding fines on behelf of HMCS must ....according to the terms of their contract be certificated bailiffs.

[boom_boom]

I'm in the North West (Burnley Area)

 

Are they not allowed to charge up to £50 for the first letter?

 

Also the vehicle i was in was a hire vehicle i was using at the time. I'm in the process of writing to them to inform them of this but not too sure what to put in the letter.

 

Thanks for your help

[John McKenna]

Are they not allowed to charge up to £50 for the first letter?

 

They are indeed but the cost isn't just for sending you the letter. The £50 is an office administration charge which also includes the handling of the warrant upon receipt (ie: data input), tracing checks via Experian/DVLA.

 

The bailiffs at Drakes use hand held PDA's called Q'Teks in conjunction with a GPS. Upon visiting a property, the bailiff must "Q'Tek" the visit through which updates the warrant details on Drakes' server. If you phone Drakes, they should be able to tell you the times and dates of the visits the Bailiff claims to have made.

 

PS: The new fee structure comes into force on the 1st Jan increasing the attendance to £175 automatically. If upon further questioning of Drakes it appears at least one visit has been made, I suggest you pay the balance today or on the 31st when Drakes reopens after Xmas. Otherwise, the new balance will be £270.

[jampot]

Surely these 'charges' are entirely disproportionate to the original offence and initial £30 fine?

[John McKenna]

The fees mentioned are set for any debt to the court between £0-£400.

 

The cost of enforcing the warrant is the same if the bailiff has to attend and force the issue. If the debt was paid in the first place, it would have cost only £30.

 

I dare say boom_boom won't be so "lazy" if there's a next time.

[binkhus]

i thought the new laws that are coming into place were going to reduce the ammount for attendance?

[John McKenna]

And what laws would these be?

[boom_boom]

I openly admit my neglect on the matter but should the bailiff not be certificated? If a bailiff is not certificated then what is my course of action? Who do i need to contact?

[John McKenna]

The Courts usually give six months grace on the certification of a bailiff where court fines are concerned so it's not really relevant.

 

Your next course of action?

 

Pay the fine on the 31st before the fees increase on the 2nd Jan.

[boom_boom]

OK thankyou all for your advice.

[binkhus]

Debt Basics - Bailiff Guide - know your rights

this guide may help.

[Nemeses]

Wow!! - I've certainly learned something new today - the police can issue an FPN which if remains unpaid/unchallenged, by-passes the conventional criminal courts system & is passed straight to the likes of DRAKE for enforcement. (I have first-hand knowledge of their 'methods' which have also previously been reported in the media - a law unto themselves).

 

Meanwhile.........my car whilst parked-up, gets 'written-off' back in July following a non-stop RTA which I and even two PCSO'S witnessed - I managed to get the VRM & reported the matter to the police immediately. The police have known from the outset who the owner/driver is & where he lives yet he still remains to be interviewed & dealt with, among other things. for no insurance whilst continuing to drive around with impunity.

 

Please note, I only make mention of this in order to vent my anger and frustration at the injustice of the 'system' and have no intention of hi-jacking the thread with this completely seperate issue.

 

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas & a Happier New Year.

[Guest 10110001]

The Courts usually give six months grace on the certification of a bailiff where court fines are concerned so it's not really relevant.

 

Your next course of action?

 

Pay the fine on the 31st before the fees increase on the 2nd Jan.

 

Not true.

 

I revoked a bailiffs entitlement to charge fees for a PCN last year and recovered everything. I also claimed damages from Drakes for their unwilingness to cooperate with me, they lied in writing saying their bailiff was certifictated. A court made a finding of fact contradicting this against Drakes and it revoked the bailiffs liability insurance.

 

The bailiff must be certificated, othwise the consumer can reclaim the bailiffs fees from the ticket issuing authority in the small claim track.

[Guest 10110001]

I openly admit my neglect on the matter but should the bailiff not be certificated? If a bailiff is not certificated then what is my course of action? Who do i need to contact?

 

Phone the public register on 0207 210 0516. If he was not certificated on the date of enforcement, reclaim the fees from the authority that issued the PCN. Do not name Drakes as a joint defendant.

[boom_boom]

Phone the public register on 0207 210 0516. If he was not certificated on the date of enforcement, reclaim the fees from the authority that issued the PCN. Do not name Drakes as a joint defendant.

 

I have already checked with them and they state that the named bailiff does not appear on their register. However i don't know where i stand now with the following:

 

Today 10:19John McKennaThe Courts usually give six months grace on the certification of a bailiff where court fines are concerned so it's not really relevant.

Your next course of action?

 

Pay the fine on the 31st before the fees increase on the 2nd Jan.

 

Should i pay the bailiffs the outstanding amount and then challenge them thru the small claims process or do it now and possibly incurr further fees which will also need to be challenged???

 

Confused

[Guest 10110001]

You can dispute the fees and pay the council direct minus trhe fees. If the council refuses, then pay the bailiff with a credit card along with his fees, then reclaim it from the council in the small claims track - and add your costs plus statutory interest.

 

PM sent.

[boom_boom]

You can dispute the fees and pay the council direct minus trhe fees. If the council refuses, then pay the bailiff with a credit card along with his fees, then reclaim it from the council in the small claims track - and add your costs plus statutory interest.

 

PM sent.

 

I think you may have misunderstood my original post. It's actually a seatbelt fine being enforced by the magistrates court... not a council debt.

 

Would i still use the same procedure?

 

Also does the following hold any importance or truth?

 

The Courts usually give six months grace on the certification of a bailiff where court fines are concerned so it's not really relevant.

 

Thanks

[Guest 10110001]

 

Would i still use the same procedure?

 

The chargeback legislation is the same, if you are defrauded by a bailiff when he obtained a money transfer on credit between you and your bank then you can still revoke it.

 

 

Also does the following hold any importance or truth?

 

The Courts usually give six months grace on the certification of a bailiff where court fines are concerned so it's not really relevant.

 

The certificating court might think its OK, and will probably dismiss your complaint. but if you file a small claim against the bailiff or the aggressor (the person or body instructing the bailiff) and put in your witness statement the facts on when his certificate expired, you will get a finding of fact and its very likely you will get your judgment.

 

I know a case involving an uncertificated Drakes bailiff, and I had two judges at different courts contradict each other in their findings.

[boom_boom]

Ok. Thank you once again all for your help.

[ThisVeryMoment]

Read the post chaps. This guy breaks the law, ignores the fine, ignores the reminders etc etc. He has no respect for the laws of this country and should not be sympathised with.

[Donzo_86]

I hope this isn't out of place but I came upon this forum when searching about Seatbelt Fines and you all seem very clued up on British Law.

 

I recieved a £30 seatbelt fine on the 16th of December in Scotland (unsure if English & Scots law is exactly the same for this matter) and was given 28 Days to pay. Unfortunately through neglect I totally forgot about it and now have till tomorrow to pay. Due to private circumstances I may be unable to pay in time. Does anyone know if I would be given the £45 fine that boom_boom received or would it go straight to the court and be an unlimited fine?

 

many thanks

[patdavies]

I hope this isn't out of place but I came upon this forum when searching about Seatbelt Fines and you all seem very clued up on British Law.

 

I recieved a £30 seatbelt fine on the 16th of December in Scotland (unsure if English & Scots law is exactly the same for this matter) and was given 28 Days to pay. Unfortunately through neglect I totally forgot about it and now have till tomorrow to pay. Due to private circumstances I may be unable to pay in time. Does anyone know if I would be given the £45 fine that boom_boom received or would it go straight to the court and be an unlimited fine?

 

many thanks

 

For the offence of not wearing a seatbelt, the matter is usually dealt with by a Fixed Penalty Notice (£30).

 

With an FPN, you either pay within the given time or elect to go to Court. (note that you must contact them and elect for a court hearing - it isn't an automatic consequence on non-payment). If you elect for Court and lose, there is no scope for an unlimited fine (max = £500) - and you will additionally have to pay the prosecution costs claim (usually around £35) and the £15 victim surcharge (I think this applied in Scotland as well)

 

If you do neither, then the FPN will be enforced as though it were a court issued fine.