STD Clinic NIGHTMARE!!!!

[JulesRamone]

This is going to be unique I'm sure... even as I write it I can't believe how stupid I'm going to sound and how ridiculous this is going to seem. I hope someone can help with some small advice... I'm sure I just have to wait and pray.

 

I went to the STD clinic in a North London hospital last monday. It was a routine thing, and I am absolutely sure I did not have HIV when I went to the clinic... my personal history makes it incredibly unlikely. I can't go into great detail about the circumstances here, but I'm sure that the male nurse who took the samples was messing around with me, and maybe worse. Firstly, he kept talking about the 'Aids test' and said things like 'do you want the AIDS?' Me: 'the test? not really, but I think I should have it, to make sure.' Nurse: 'okay, I'll give you the AIDS'. The thing is my general health is not good, as described in my NHS nightmare thread I try to avoid the NHS... I am tired all the time and there is a delay in my reaction time to things. I'm slow and tired basically, and what happened next, I questioned but assumed he knew what he was doing. Only afterwards did I really think it was bad.

 

He took out a new syringe, got the swab, ie for rubbing the crook of my arm with alcohol before the needle jab, and without putting alcohol on the swab held it with his right index (pointing) finger against the needle point. He was holding the barrel of the syringe with the thumb and middle finger of his right hand, ie the same hand. Whilst holding the syringe in this way, with the needle point pressed against the dry swab, both pressing against the finger pad of his index finger, and with his left hand balancing the lower part of the syringe, he rotated the barrel with thumb and middle finger of the right hand, whilst pressing with the left (possibly puncturing the skin on his right index finger pad), he then carefully with the left hand pulled the plunger outwards a short way (possibly taking a sample from himself), noting carefully what was happening. What was I thinking? I was thinking: he must be swabbing the end of the needle... (slow thinking, tired) why is he swabbing the needle not my arm? He then proceeded to do the jab, without having swabbed my arm with alcohol first, pushed in the plunger a very short way before then extracting two samples of blood as in the normal phlebotomy procedure.

 

Did he have AIDS? was he taking a sample from himself and infecting me?

 

This is a complete nightmare. This HAPPENED!! I could see that he realised I was tired and perhaps an easy target--he could get away with it. I can speculate on his motives, but can't of course read the mind of someone who would actually do that. Although his motives are important to the question of whether he did it or not, the fact is he did undertake the set of actions with the syringe that I've outlined above--what does it matter why: I have to know whether it is POSSIBLE that someone COULD be infected in that way.

 

I'm in total misery. This happened Monday 3rd December, and I get the result on 17th, but that is 99.99% likely to be negative, and it won't be of any use for telling whether I was infected by him on that day, so I have to endure six months of hell waiting, with further tests along the way, to find out whether I was actually infected by the nurse.

 

How do I know that the nurse had the virus himself? I don't, but I think it would be the kind of job given to a nurse with HIV, as for those without it would be a risky job.

 

What about his motives? The whole meeting did not go well really. I was very tired, and quite agitated as I'd had to wait for ages. If he did infect me, it would be truly a terrible deed, and I have to now think of practical steps in terms of what I actually do know. The conversation seemed to me okay at the time, but afterwards I realised that he was messing around there as well. On the question of whether I have a test or not he said things like: 'Do you want the AIDS?' etc. What I do know is that he used the term 'Aids' throughout, not 'HIV', and that is TOTALLY unprofessional. I have had maltreatment by senior nurses in the NHS before, in 2003, and I do feel very agitated in NHS situations, especially with senior male nurses. This might suggest I'm being paranoid. I hope so... I will certainly admit to being very anxious in circumstances where I am on my own, relying on the good practice and professionalism of a senior male nurse, and as I have described above, his actions, as I realised afterwards, suggested anything but good practice--my (anyone's) worst fear.

 

My one hope is that he was taking the **** for his own 'amusement', and/or giving me a sharp shock about the importance of the whole matter. I'm praying that this is the case in fact. When I think about it, I just CANNOT believe anyone would deliberately infect another person in such a way. But I already know that sometimes medical professionals act in less than professional ways, and therefore I can't rule it out just because it would be a terrible act. (Unquestionably, it would be despicable for someone to cause deliberate HARM to another person to whom they have an obligation of care.)

 

I'm distraught. I can't concentrate on anything, work, going out, anything. If anyone has any knowledge about the virus and its transmission, or anything relevant at all, I would be very grateful for any comments. Many thanks.

 

JulesRamone

[heartopp]

erm - then please tell us, why you let yourself be injected if you had any thought of him doing as you said...

[PriorityOne]

erm - then please tell us, why you let yourself be injected if you had any thought of him doing as you said...

 

That's really not very helpful...

[GlasweJen]

Make a complaint to the clinic, make a complaint to your GP, complain to the health board, basically complain in writing to everyone you can get hold of.

 

Get yourself retested in 10 weeks time, any change in the virus will be detected by then, If you don't have HIV now and you have it in the next test you can start legal action. It's unlikely that the nurse has infected you with HIV but you have to be careful, make sure your GP is aware of this.

[heartopp]

That's really not very helpful...

 

I think that this is a very valid qustion.

 

The OP said that he know what was going on - This to me seems like a rather large joke...

 

And, I have HIV myself, and was a nurse... and peoplw just dont do this!

[GlasweJen]

the OP has a medical condition which leaves him in a confused state, he stated this in the OP and directed towards a thread which explained it further.

[PriorityOne]

Hiya Jules,

 

It it help you in any way, I was called for a Hepatitis C test 10 years after my daughter was born because the NHS discovered that the doctor who delivered her (and who performed a procedure) had the infection. My test was negative.

 

A friend of mine was then called up for a HIV test after it was discovered that her dentist had the infection. She was pooing bricks at the time, but once again, her test was negative.... as it was for everyone else in the small town where I live. There would have been a huge hoo-ha if not.

 

On reading what you've said, it appears that the person taking the blood sample was not British (?) and sometimes, things can be taken out of context by those of us who are.... because we are used to expressing ourselves in different ways. There are times when migrant workers struggle with the English language and leave out some words in order to get their point across.... leaving us to read (sometimes incorrectly) between the lines. I come across this regularly at my mother's care home.

 

I would like to think that's all it is in your case... If you are really concerned though (you were there, I was not), I would 'phone the clinic and get the name of the person who took the sample for your own records. In fact, it does no harm to do this anyway.

 

[poppynurse]

I would be asking the senior person at the clinic what this nurse was playing at, I can't think of any reasonable explanation for handling the syringe in this way (I regularly take blood).

[JulesRamone]

Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions.

I had a test a week ago which was negative, but that was at 13 weeks. But it also showed a reduced White Blood Cell Count... and that is the indicator I was looking at. I told the GP what happened in the STD clinic, but they're waiting for a positive result I think. I'm certain I have the virus because there are SYMPTOMS. And in fact, this is part of the myth of HIV--the myth that you don't know if you've got it until the three month blood test which can detect the HIV antibodies. In actual fact there are classic symptoms IMMEDIATELY on infection for 2/3rds of all people infected. This takes the form of ACUTE FEVER in the first two weeks. Massive fatigue hits the victim immediately on infection and is followed by high fever, sleeplessness/exhaustion, uncharacteristic lack of energy, and, strangely, dreams/nightmares related to weakness. A persistent cold and cough might follow the initial two-week fever, but the individual's condition improves after the fever has abated (which means the body has adjusted to the presence of the virus, even though it hasn't eradicated it as happens with flu virus). I also noticed dental sensitivity to hot and cold increased and it's a well-known symptom of HIV that dental health is affected. Besides this normal spots on the face seem not to disappear so quickly and shaving rash seems to stay for longer, is slightly redder and is more sensitive than usual. All this is related to the impaired function of the immune system. HIV kills white blood cells, the police/ambulance/firefighters of the body and does nothing more than that. White blood cells defend the body from infection and also repair the body, so all physiological repairs, such as shaving rash and spots, or minor infections such as respiratory (throat) infection are not cleared up quickly in the usual healthy way. In other words the body is inundated by hundreds of minor repair jobs which its maintenance squad of White Blood Cells (T-cells) cannot handle as quickly as usual. Think what would happen if all the policemen/nurses/firemen suddenly got a cold at the same time… that’s what happens to the body with HIV. The myth of HIV is that people wander around for ages without any means of knowing if they've got it. I CANNOT BELIEVE that the minor symptoms I've just described haven't been advertised by government campaigns. People who no way have HIV could be worrying about having it after low-risk experiences without proper reason. The problem is that, apparently 1/3rd of infected people are asymptomatic (I don't believe that figure). I'm annoyed about this because ultimately the vast majority of people should be reassured by merely intelligently examining their health today. Look, I went to a private clinic to get a backup test in early December (neg of course), and the doctor I saw said: “We get dozens of people coming in during the week, and the overwhelming, VAST majority--I mean ninety nine point nine per cent -- of people who come in for tests, turn out to be negative”. It’s simply RIDICULOUS for those people to be worrying about it unless they have the symptoms I’ve described above, and if they do have those symptoms, particularly the two-week high fever immediately after the incident, then it’s quite likely they do have it.. In other words most people shouldn’t need the three month wait for the antibodies test. It's ridiculous. It’s a nice industry for private STD clinics, but a complete waste of time for the majority who fork out the £95 for the test. There must be people who don't have any symptoms immediately after infection, but frankly, I think it can't be many. Please can anyone add more informed knowledge about this? I'm puzzling over why I was labouring under the misapprehension/(misinformation?) that there are no signs of infection until the test three months later. THINK ABOUT IT: If I had known about early, pre-lab-detectable symptoms, then I wouldn't have had the test in the first place!

SITUATION UPDATE...

Can anyone with HIV please help me with what to do with a related condition: I'm sure I may now have an invasive fungal infection, which to those who don't know is really bad (and is very rare now unless related to HIV or other 'immuno-compromise' conditions). The SERIOUS PROBLEM with HIV is that it takes ages to diagnose, and so does invasive fungal infection****, so I'm not getting medication or treatment for either!! I got some antibiotics from the GP for a lung infection, but antibiotics have no effect on fungal infection. I’m now supposed to be getting an appointment at a hospital to get further tests… which means a lumbar puncture I’m sure (Bloody painful). As readers of this thread so far will understand, I really am quite scared of going into hospital for anything more than a scan or an X-ray…

****I am now realizing something quite big about the NHS… they simply do not recognize ‘secondary’ symptoms for a huge range of conditions. If you think about a particular condition you have and google it and do a bit of research you can easily find that minor ‘secondary’ symptoms, which are clear enough to you, but are classed as ‘non-specific’ by the GP, ie they could be related to a number of conditions or even very minor ailments, are in fact CLASSIC signs and symptoms of your particular condition. But they amount to nothing as far as the GP is concerned and they have to wait for the specialists (ie the labs and scientists) to give their opinion. This means that while a whole army of hypochondriacs clog up GPs waiting rooms, anyone arriving with a slightly unusual condition, difficult to diagnose but with CLASSIC secondary symptoms, is going to slip through the net. ****

I’m honestly quite scared about going into hospital now. Problem is I don’t have friends and family who are being very supportive about the whole thing, (you might say understandable given there has been no positive diagnosis, but I disagree) and I’m not even keeping them informed about developments. Does anyone have any experience of HIV-related fungal infections. And TIPS on how to handle hospital panic or hospitalphobia, as I’ve now developed. What’s more I have a real fear now of nurses as well.

 

Also, as if all that wasn’t enough, can anyone help with advice about LEGAL AID/Clinical Negligence. I spoke to a specialist solicitors’ firm two days ago, but they say they are selective about the cases they take on. What am I sposed to do? One suggestion was to 'complain to everyone' and this seems to me the best way forward if solicitors wont take the case.

 

Any advice, comments, support very welcome.

 

MANY THANKS

JulesRamone

[gizmo111]

I can't help you with the legal side, but you will find support through your ilness and hospital phobia over here Sexual Health - Consumer Health Forums

[GlasweJen]

Jules, you've got to stay calm on this. All this worry can actually bring on symptoms you describe. I know that the HIV test at 13 weeks was negative and you say your WBC count was low, has the doctor arranged a test to check for coxsackie virus infection? This can also cause these symptoms.

 

As for the fungal infection, ask for a fungicide while you wait on your appointment, they can give you it in low doses to see if it helps and surely your GP knows what a fungus looks like without the help of a hospital specialist?

[loopinlouie]

You are obviously very very worried as I think anyone would be, as for legal help I would concentrate on getting stronger and better before you take that on. Have you told advisors extent of how frightened you are?

I hope next test is ok for you:)

[JulesRamone]

Okay, I've tried registering with the Consumer Health Forum, but the page doesn't seem to work...

 

Thanks GlasweJen and loopinlouie. When you say 'advisors' I have not very good relations with family members and friends are scattered and inundated with career issues or families... for instance my brother said he just couldn;t be of any help at all, he's on a big deadline and has been to his own doctor about stress-related problems. I'm not sure if I have many advisors as such, and in fact I am constantly wishing I did have. I am just going to draw up a list of F&Fs because I've got to have a bit more confidence dealing with the NHS... I'm seriously fed up with it. Wondering what all the fuss is about with the NHS... I used to buy into all that Bevan/1950 'for all the people/free at the point of source' stuff, but I'm beginning to think if you are unwaged, as I am, and even when I did have a salary, it's really hard work getting the right treatment.

 

There is part of all this which I'm not really letting on about here, for not wanting to come across as un-PC... I am quite PC, but a certain element of health practitioners are taking the P*** out of me, and I'm fed up with it... Ogawd!

 

For instance I saw a different GP yesterday afternoon, and I'm sure he was perving. All the nightmares I've had have involved an underlying sexual harrassment. There is un-PC aspect to what I'm saying, if you read between the lines.

 

GlaswJen, I did get fungicide, for toenail tinea, and even if it's a placebo effect (it's only strong enough for lo-level fungus) it's still reassuring. Also, I read the instructions for the antibiotics I was taking: apparently they kill off the 'flora' which tackle fungal infections. I stopped taking antibiotics and feel a bit better. Although it's started raining again... moan, moan, JulesRamone!!!!!

 

Your advice always welcome and much appreciated.

[GlasweJen]

Yeah a lot of people have issues with long term use of anti-bis. Some of the yakult like drinks claim that they can help the stomach get back on its feet after a course of anti-biotics so that might be something to look into if you feel you need a boost in that area.

 

As for doctors, do what I do and tell them that you've had a bad experience in the past and you don't feel comfortable in their office. They usually respond well to that and sometimes they can arrange for someone to come in with you just to reassure.

[JulesRamone]

Hello Gizmo111,

 

thanks, i went to consumer health forum immediately, but I can't register... is the registration not working, do you know?

 

JulesR

[kennythecelt]

Hi JulesR

 

Hope things OK!!

 

To try and help, I just checked the situation by trying to register there myself. Unfortunately it appears there is a database error just now. Hopefully it will be sorted soon.

 

Take care and kind regards, Kenny:)

[honey5]

you have two options, your "other post" refers to a complaint against a NHS hospital and this one also, you can take up your first complaint and then follow up this one, or you can follow thru with your first before you enter this one

have you ever been refused hospital treatment due to your "problelms"?

do you have a diagnosis for your existing condition?

honey x

[JulesRamone]

This is a sheepish email, considering the amount of really kind support and sympathy I got from everyone. Basically I had a test at the end of Feb which was three months and NEG and then another one at the end of March, which was four months, also NEGATIVE. I'm very pleased about this and humbled by the whole thing... I was going through a very bad time anyway and I should have gone to my GP before and got a blood test there. Also, I went around on the web and learned a lot about HIV and the terrible problems people have either getting the right drugs ie in the third world, or in the first world, the problems of drugs which the virus is resistant to. And of course there are hundreds of inspiring stories about people with the virus leading their lives. I've learned exactly why I'm lucky not to have such a terrible disease, and I appreciate how seriously we should all take our health, particularly STDs. Remember Hep C is incurable as well, and has some serious effects. Thanks to everyone who sent encouragement, and support in a time when I felt great anxiety and isolation.

 

That;s the good news. The not so good news is that I think I may have what's called a 'systemic infection' and I'd be very grateful for any advice anyone might have about it. Basically, I was in a very damp flat up until the end of February, and came down with bacterial infections and a kind of low level fungal infection, which caused dehydration particularly of the lips and eyes, and mouth. Fungal infections I've discovered are not that well known about. There is of course athlete's foot and the phenomenon known as 'ringworm', which is big rings of dry skin often around the groin. Originally I went to the doctor, having googled my symptoms, thinking I had something which they said was very serious. I went to the Respiratory clinic and was given the all-clear for TB and something really awful called Aspergillis. I went back to the GP, and said that I still had symptoms, mainly dehydration, but also white lines on the wrinkles on the skin on the back of my hands, palms, knuckles and heels, and soles of feet. Also I've had yellowing of the whites of the eyes, with minute red lines coming from the tear ducts, giving the impression of conjunctivitis. Ive tested NEG for HIV and Hep C, thankfully, but liver function is low. T-cell count is okay I think... all the numbers were given to the GP by the RESP clinic. The GP, who is being very helpful talked about ATH-number, but I may have misheard this.

 

The GP said that it was possibly an 'occult' infection, and I understand this can be a fungal thing on the CSF (ie centro-spinal fluid). My general symptoms are basically lethargy and very dehydrated lips and eyes, stinging when passing water and a twinges in muscles, and muscle weakness. It's very vague, but as the doctor said, it's 'difficult to diagnose' I;m worried it's also difficult to cure or treat. The WCS is I think having to have a lumbar puncture, which could reveal the exact agent which has gone onto the system--something like that has definitely happened, I'm sure (this time... I'm very aware that you may think I'm crying wolf... the only thing I can say is that I was in a very damp flat for two and a half years, and this is the kind of thing that can happen). The problem with fungal infection is that antibiotics don't work, the magic bullet drug DONT work!! and that is worrying for anyone who has gone to the doctor with a throat or lung infection and getting doled out various strenght antibiotics to zap it. There are anti-fungal medicines which are enzymes which break down the cell wall of the fungi, and I think that must be how athlete's foot cream works. But I don't know if these work for systemic infections. I am very worried about have to go into hospital for IV steroids, which I think is a fairly serious level remedy. I'm just WORRIED, and I know it must strain people's sympathy, particularly as the symptoms don't sound very serious. The big affect happens in cold, wet weather when my breathing seems to go 'furry' and slightly damp and rasping. You would have to experience this to understand what I mean, perhaps, but it happens without fail when there is damp weather. This also happens when I drink alcohol, adding very hot, red cheeks--NOT flushing, but a kind of heat under the skin.

 

Anyway, I am fairly miserable about all this, and of course wondering what I can possibly do about it. It is connected to what happened in December inasmuchas that whole set of events came about mainly as I was in very damp accommodation, with leaking roof, freezing cold and all the rest of it, and that really brought my morale down. When I went to the STD clinic I was in very low spirits and not surprisingly it didnt go very well. I had to wait three months for the test results, staying in the damp flat, in those three very wet winter months, and eventually the bacterial and low-level superficial fungal infection kind of when into my bones, and I've been laid low since March, very tired, a little bit broken now after the worry of the other virus test, and after effectively two months moving flat (I stayed with a friend in South London for two months whilst commuting to East London and transporting boxes and furniture over in several trips). Yes, it's true, I have not done things very cleverly--anyone in damp accommodation should MOVE OUT IMMEDIATELY and I didn't do that, stayed for two and a half years, with predictable consequences for my health and morale. The same housing co-op has given me a clean dry flat, which is helping a lot, but with this systemic thing not going away quickly, I am very very low. To those people tutting and saying they were sceptical about the HIV problem, I can only apologise if you feel I've demanded sympathy without good reason, or in some way falsely. I have also been getting counselling for the last two months. I'm now just trying to pick myself up to get back into employment.

 

If anyone has nursing or medical knowledge, and recognises anything in the description of the condition and symptoms I've given above, and might have advice or a closer diagnosis and particularly prognosis, I would be immensely grateful. I did talk to a GP friend of mine who said that whilst western medicine recognises only one kind of candidiasis (a serious invasive fungal infection which I believe I do NOT have) she said that Eastern medicine recognises a second much less severe form of candidiasis which is ignored by WestMED. That may be a red herring, but certainly there is something fungal going through my system which has as yet not got a diagnosis. I'm due to go and see the GP in a couple of weeks to get results for tests which might confirm the reduced liver function or show that that is back to normal. For a patient to keep track of all these 'numbers' is very difficult, and any help with explaining the various indicators would be most helpful as well. As I understand it, with fungal infections (invasive) one indicator is an increase in proteins in the body. But with no training whatsoever I don't know what that means.

 

Lastly, I am well aware that a straightforward explanation might be fatigue/physical and mental exhaustion from a nightmare six months. NO argument from me there at all, and I'm sure this is all part of 'malaise', but with infections normally they do go fairly quickly when you're in good housing conditions and eating healthily and not drinking alcohol (zero alcohol consumption for me now, temporary I hope), and all other measures of physical health look normal/good. I'm in fairly good condition generally, and wondering why these symptoms are not going. A nurse friend of mine told me that rest might be a good thing, and I'm trying that as well.

 

Any help/advice very gratefully received as always. Many, many thanks for all CAGers help before.

 

JulesR

[Conniff]

I had a friend who was paranoid about aids. If anyone as much as brushed past him, he would take a shower and change his clothes. All he ever did was read literature about the disease, I think he read so much that he had convinced himself he had it.

 

I think you are a bit paranoid and are convincing yourself that there are things wrong. When one disease dosn't materialise, you think you have something else.

 

I think you should seek help from other than a medical doctor.

Edited May 30, 2008 by Conniff

[heartopp]

That's really not very helpful...

 

I think that this is a very valid qustion.

[PriorityOne]

Fair enough.

[JulesRamone]

Hello,

 

I've finally worked out what's wrong and the doctors aren't interested. What I've got, and I'm embarassed to admit this because it's a bit sad... is a candida 'overgrowth'. I don't even know what it means exactly, but the symptoms are straightforward enough. Feels like i've got a cold all the time. Muscles weak and lethargic, fatigue and so on... especially dehydration, also stinging dry eyes etc etc... minor symptoms really but would be good to get back to good health. Have to eat a lo-carb diet, and hoping that it will improve. What I said earlier in this string adds up to my immune system being a bit compromised since December 07... that's how it happened. I was living in a damp flat and eating too much sugary foods, starch in the form of rice, bread and pasta and also drinking way too much alcohol, ie taking on loads of sugar. That combined with damp conditions and lowered immune system meant a candida infection in the system. Doctors did tests and of course found nothing. I went to see GP recently who said that it's not recognised by 'evidence-based' western medicine... well I've never been one for alternative or eastern therapies, but I've definitely got something.

 

Does anyone have any experience of dealing with this... I'm hoping that raising immune system, eating loads of protein and vitamins and cutting out sugar and carbs, and doing more exercise will help the situation, but I'm looking for any sure-fire remedies that someone might know about. Would be very grateful for any advice.

 

Also, I've tried to get onto the consumer health forum... does anyone know where it is or what's happened to it??? I tried registering on it ages ago, after advice from someone here on CAG, but it didn't accept my registration and now I can't find the website. Does it still exist????

 

JulesR

[kennythecelt]

Hello Jules

 

sorry cant help at all regarding medical matters. I hope you find a solution and things get better. Certainly, better living conditions and diet will be a good thing- good luck.

 

Here's a link to the Health Forum for you

 

Give Up Smoking Support Group - Consumer Health Forums

[poppynurse]

Candida is a fungus that causes thrush.

You could try probiotic drinks/yoghurts to try and rebalance the good bacteria in your gut and make sure that you are drinking enough water (around 2litres per day).

[JulesRamone]

thanks PN... I understood that the candida is the 'flora' in the stomach ie GI tract etc... and sometimes it gets out! I'll follow up on the probiotic drinks suggestion definitely. I'm hoping I can find somewhere on the net where theres a good prognosis for this kind of thing... hoping. Thanks.