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Me v MBNA ABBEY AND MBNA VIRGIN

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Is the following advice incorrect?

Hello there dx100uk,

 

Yes, you are dx100% correct, in order for them (creditor) to re-issue a valid default notice the agreement would need to be reinstated, both parties need to agree to this and obviously the debtor will not want to cure the impossible for the creditor.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

 

Thread is here,

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?262717-Mbna-Dn-Issued

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Already done that but they seem to ignore such things.

I am doing all this to be as awkward as possible after they put up my VIRGIN card interest rate to 34.9%. I am checking they have done everything properly and intend to cause them as many problems as I can.

This rate rise only happened after I successfully claimed back charges last year.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/111016-mbna-virgin-credit-card.html

I am fuming about this, its just a rip off.

Since my last victory against them, there have been a few late charges on my account so my next trick is a new SAR and also fighting the amount they say I owe them.

 

The card companies have a code of conduct believe it or not :lol:http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/best_practices/-/page/681/

Now, imho if you rate is increased and you write to them to reject that increase, continue paying as per the terms agreed they would struggle to persuade a Court that not allowing you to do so was not an unfair practice.

 

Maintaining payment where there is a genuine dispute. Well a genuine dispute of this nature would be that the account was not yours, you did not open it, spend on it or gain any benefit from it. In those circumstances I believe not making payments to be fair.

I would also put into this category accounts that have been through Court and the claimants have lost (debt still exists just unenforceable and in genuine dispute)

Edited by gh2008
removed teh chasing quotes as they were part of a message I did not end up posting

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The card companies have a code of conduct believe it or not :lol:http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/best_practices/-/page/681/

Now, imho if you rate is increased and you write to them to reject that increase, continue paying as per the terms agreed they would struggle to persuade a Court that not allowing you to do so was not an unfair practice.

 

Maintaining payment where there is a genuine dispute. Well a genuine dispute of this nature would be that the account was not yours, you did not open it, spend on it or gain any benefit from it. In those circumstances I believe not making payments to be fair.

I would also put into this category accounts that have been through Court and the claimants have lost (debt still exists just unenforceable and in genuine dispute)[/QUOT

 

Letter sent 4/02/2009. Not replied to by court.

Claim Nos ******** & ******** – MBNA Europe Bank Ltd V Mr *********

Dear Sirs

Following a telephone conversation with the Financial Ombudsman today, I have been advised to enquire as to the status of the above 2 cases. I have also been advised that MBNA EBL should not have taken any action against me as both accounts were in dispute, and for this reason I respectfully ask the Court to throw out both claims against me.

I trust this is to your satisfaction, and remain,

Yours faithfully,

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"You need to understand the consequences of a Summary Judgement application against you".

 

What would these be?

 

Ok, Having spent the last couple of hours going through the thread (and still not finished) these are my thoughts

 

initially 2 claims 1 Virgin 1 Abbey - both operated by MBNA

original (long) PT-style 'holding defences' submitted

complaint to FOS made regarding charges etc

Claims put on hold subject to FOS investigation

 

FOS accepted MBNA's offer as reasonable and stated accounts ok other than possible technicalities.

 

Claim restarted on balance o/s

 

SJ app made by claimant http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?122431-Me-v-MBNA-ABBEY-AND-MBNA-VIRGIN&p=3183886&viewfull=1#post3183886

No reply or WS made so far

 

date of hearing of SJ has been moved to ??

 

I am unclear as to what has been provided for each account in respect of agreement original T&Cs subsequent T&Cs statements DNs etc

 

Reconstructed DN(s) may differ from original(s) - very important imho

 

I suggested amending defence and submitting a WS in answer to SJ app here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?122431-Me-v-MBNA-ABBEY-AND-MBNA-VIRGIN&p=3188689&viewfull=1#post3188689

 

At the moment a SJ app has been made against you.

You have to show the Court why you have an arguable case.

You defence is a generic defence relying on teh fact that you did not have the information at the time to construct a proper one.

You now have that information so that defence is now very weak.

 

You have statements I think for both accounts up to the point at which you stopped making payments.

MBNA have refunded the PPI payments and charges and excessive interest?? on both account together with a £100 compensation FOS upheld this as being fair

 

What is your current defence/argument against repaying these amounts as being claimed at the moment?? that's the bit I am totally unclear about


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Ok, Having spent the last couple of hours going through the thread (and still not finished) these are my thoughts

 

initially 2 claims 1 Virgin 1 Abbey - both operated by MBNA

original (long) PT-style 'holding defences' submitted

complaint to FOS made regarding charges etc

Claims put on hold subject to FOS investigation

 

FOS accepted MBNA's offer as reasonable and stated accounts ok other than possible technicalities.

 

Claim restarted on balance o/s

 

SJ app made by claimant http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?122431-Me-v-MBNA-ABBEY-AND-MBNA-VIRGIN&p=3183886&viewfull=1#post3183886

No reply or WS made so far

 

date of hearing of SJ has been moved to ??

 

I am unclear as to what has been provided for each account in respect of agreement original T&Cs subsequent T&Cs statements DNs etc

 

Reconstructed DN(s) may differ from original(s) - very important imho

 

I suggested amending defence and submitting a WS in answer to SJ app here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?122431-Me-v-MBNA-ABBEY-AND-MBNA-VIRGIN&p=3188689&viewfull=1#post3188689

 

At the moment a SJ app has been made against you.

You have to show the Court why you have an arguable case.

You defence is a generic defence relying on teh fact that you did not have the information at the time to construct a proper one.

You now have that information so that defence is now very weak.

 

You have statements I think for both accounts up to the point at which you stopped making payments.

MBNA have refunded the PPI payments and charges and excessive interest?? on both account together with a £100 compensation FOS upheld this as being fair

 

What is your current defence/argument against repaying these amounts as being claimed at the moment?? that's the bit I am totally unclear about

 

I do not agree with the amount they say I owe. I admit I owe something, I admit they are my accounts. I believe I owe about £9.5K before taking off the refunded ppi and £100 compo. One friend of mine says admit the lot then sue them for return of charges,overlimit fees,ppi interest, this will knock a big chunk off the total. I'm not trying to avoid paying, just trying to not get ripped off any more.

Thanks for your time and help.:-)

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I do not agree with the amount they say I owe. I admit I owe something, I admit they are my accounts. I believe I owe about £9.5K before taking off the refunded ppi and £100 compo. One friend of mine says admit the lot then sue them for return of charges,overlimit fees,ppi interest, this will knock a big chunk off the total. I'm not trying to avoid paying, just trying to not get ripped off any more.

Thanks for your time and help.:-)

 

Right, so where are your figures and where are theirs and where do they differ??

 

That will be the starting point.

 

Then imho you need to construct an argument for an unfair relationship - but not yet!! get the basics right first i.e. the figures


If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

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Got a spare few mins !

The hearing is set for 6th Jan.

I've started to do spreadsheets for PPI and interest and for the charges/overlimit fees. Restons have never really shown IMO how they have arrived at the figure but no doubt a DJ would agree with them. They have added lots of court cost etcs on to the bill already.The figure cannot be right tho' because of the charges and overlimit fees.

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The card companies have a code of conduct believe it or not :lol:http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/best_practices/-/page/681/

Now, imho if you rate is increased and you write to them to reject that increase, continue paying as per the terms agreed they would struggle to persuade a Court that not allowing you to do so was not an unfair practice.

 

Maintaining payment where there is a genuine dispute. Well a genuine dispute of this nature would be that the account was not yours, you did not open it, spend on it or gain any benefit from it. In those circumstances I believe not making payments to be fair.

I would also put into this category accounts that have been through Court and the claimants have lost (debt still exists just unenforceable and in genuine dispute)

 

i rather fancy that i could count on the dimples on the pimples on a fleas left ball- the number of occassions when a cagger could argue that they did not open and account/it was not theirs/did not spend or gain any benefit on it!

 

lets keep the discussion real

 

 

you CANNOT lawfully cease to comply with your obligations under the agreement- simply because of some dispute with the conduct of the agreement by the creditor UNLESS the creditors failure to perform is of such a major benefit to you in the agreement- in which case that may constitute an unlawful repudiation on their part-

 

i suggest that a failure to comply with s78 or any dispute as to interest/charges etc would NOT be seen as such a repudiation

 

the only REAL and MAJOR benefit of the agreement- to the debtor- is the ability to borrow/use funds provided by the creditor and to pay it back (credit cards) in monthly amounts of the debtors own choosing (subject to a minimum) with no fear- like a bank overdraft- of the loan being recalled at short notice

 

so unless the creditor is removing (or threatening to remove ) this benefit- he would not be considered to be in repudiatory breach (IMO)

Edited by diddydicky

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Sorry diddy but I don't get that at all.:???:

I'm not disputing whether the the accounts are mine or not.

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wasnt aimed at you- sorry

 

just wanted to establish that you must NOT deny any debt to the creditor- when it is clear there is one- as you have in fact now kindly confirmed

 

your efforts should be concentrated on:-

 

1/ disputing the actual amount owed

 

and/or

 

2/ disputing that the creditor is entitled to legally enforce the debt

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I now just want to dispute the amount. But is it better to admit the amount they say and then go for them afterwards or at the hearing? Can't afford the costs scenario.

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I now just want to dispute the amount. But is it better to admit the amount they say and then go for them afterwards or at the hearing? Can't afford the costs scenario.

 

bump

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If you can prove by way of your spreadsheets that the amount they are claiming is incorrect then you should raise this quite early on if you can.


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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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With the court or Restons?

Who should I ask about the PPI repaid to me? I've a letter stating its PPI but in the Restons witness statement it says "these refunds are not in respect of PPI premiums but in respect of a complaint raised by the Defendant with the FOS" .

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I guess you could do a CPR18 request asking for clarification of that point. You would send it to Restons.

 

You will find a draft CPR18 request in the first post of the following thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?255329-CPR-part-18-vs-CPR-31.14-Confused-well-read-here

 

HTH


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Done that, they send statements. They do not answer the questions I ask and never have. I give up. I don't owe the amount they say but feel like I've already lost. I'm going to write to Restons with an offer and asking for clarification about the PPI (which their WS says is NOT repayment of PPI premiums but IS compensensation) then go for them for harrassment,charges, PPI with big interest !

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If you can prove by way of your spreadsheets that the amount they are claiming is incorrect then you should raise this quite early on if you can.
....

 

....

Edited by phatram

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http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/legal-powers/legal/cca/CCA2006/unfair/

 

Unfair credit agreements

 

If you take out a loan, or enter into any other type of credit agreement, you can make a complaint if you think any aspect of the agreement is unfair. For example, you might think your credit agreement is unfair because:

  • you have been charged interest at an exceptionally high rate
  • the creditor gave you wrong or misleading information, or didn't give you enough information when you were deciding whether to take out the loan
  • the creditor failed to make a proper assessment of whether the loan was suitable for you
  • the creditor didn't fully take into account how your age, experience, physical or mental health would affect your ability to enter into a credit agreement or to keep up with payments.

There are other reasons you might think your credit agreement is unfair.

  • Confused 1

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Right, so where are your figures and where are theirs and where do they differ??

 

That will be the starting point.

 

Then imho you need to construct an argument for an unfair relationship - but not yet!! get the basics right first i.e. the figures

 

Restons haven't put a figure in their WS so how am I supposed to know how much I owe? How can I dispute an unknown amount?

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Restons haven't put a figure in their WS so how am I supposed to know how much I owe? How can I dispute an unknown amount?

 

Well, that should form part of your argument then if they are claiming an unknown amount


If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

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I had a discussion with another CAGer last night who suggested making a F&F offer. I will draft a letter and post it here later.

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Dear Sir,

After a discussion with my solicitor I have been advised to make you a Full and Final settlement offer .

I am prepared to offer you £**** .

I believe this would be the best way forward for the following reasons,

1. I would drop any court action against MBNA & Restons for the harassment and distress caused to myself and my family by your bullying tactics over many months.

2. I would not sue MBNA for the return of Late Fees and Overlimit Fees unlawfully charged to my accounts.

3. I would not sue MBNA for the return of PPI premiums and compound contractual interest and/or restitutional damages. As stated in Reston’s court witness Statement the monies returned to me were NOT in respect of PPI premiums but as a result of my complaint to the FOS.

4. Your actions are very likely to force me into taking out an I.V.A which would mean you getting less than I am offering to settle this dispute.

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Any suggestions anyone?

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Any suggestions anyone?

 

if i received that i would believe that you were running scared!!

 

re word it

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if i received that i would believe that you were running scared!!

 

re word it

 

Give us a clue pls.

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